The wrong focus on range anxiety?

[Canuck]

Maybe not Range Anxiety, but I do know several Leaf owners who cannot drive their cars to specific events that we may attend together because of the range of their cars. They are aware of the limitation and make other arrangements. These same owners do suffer from a kind of winter range anxiety where they have to be extremely cautious and judicious with the heat just to make it to where they are going. One owner I know has talked about wrapping himself in a 12v electric blanket and foregoing cabin heat all together.

These are not problems I have with my Tesla, but not every EV owner drives a Tesla.

Agreed. The OP's post is true and he makes good points, except when he refers to the Leaf. Range anxiety is a reality with a Leaf. It's a great car for around the neighbourhood, but that's about it. If they double the range, as is speculated, that problem will be solved. But it needs to be at least doubled.

 

[tga]

Trying to invert range anxiety and apply it to ICE's vs EV's seems kind of silly. Do people forget how easy it is to buy gas after only driving an EV for a few months?

Let's be realistic. I live in a small suburb of Boston (~6000 people). All the main roads out of my neighborhood have a gas station within a mile. I literally cannot go anywhere without passing a gas station.

Go watch the battery swap demo. The Audi driver finishes putting 23 gallons of gas in his car in 3 minutes. If you are really that late for work, only get 5 gallons in a minute (or better yet, get up earlier :wink.

If you run out of gas in an ICE (or get "range anxiety" for driving with the low gas light on), it's your own damn fault for not filling up or not watching the gauges. In all my years of driving, I've run out of gas once. And it was my own fault, for trying to get to a cheap station to save a couple of bucks on a fillup.

OK, I supposed driving through rural Montana at 2am with 1/4 tank could cause "range anxiety", but filling up beforehand is part of basic travel planning for a trip like that.

 

[Canuck]

Trying to invert range anxiety and apply it to ICE's vs EV's seems kind of silly.

It's not silly at all to me. Before I got my Tesla when my ICE vehicle got low on gas it would cause me anxiety. Sure, I could easily go to a gas station and fill it up, which of course I did, but sometimes (quite often in fact since I had to fill up at least once a week) I would want to get home to see the end of a hockey game, and think I could do it in the morning, or I'd be late for a meeting so I'll do it after the meeting, when my kids were young I wanted to get home to play with them before bedtime, etc. etc. -- so I'd push the limit of the downside (which in my Tahoe Hybrid the bottom half of the tank went down much faster than the top half - same with my Silverado prior to that). And I'm the type of person who tried to fill up when it reached a quarter of a tank but I lead a busy life and sometimes that got by me. The way that last quarter emptied so fast often caught me off guard.

However, since getting my Tesla, I have never once had that concern. I plug in at night which is real easy the way my garage is set up with the cord hanging right by the car's tail-light. So, for me at least, range anxiety was more real in my ICE vehicles than in my Tesla -- and that includes my 300 km trips to my lakehouse many weekends, over two mountain passes, that I make with about 100 km left and no anxiety all. In my ICE I had to constantly make sure I filled up because there are few gas stations but I can charge at my lakehouse.

 

[David99]

Range anxiety is the worry of not making it somewhere and not having any place to charge. If there are charging stations it's lack of planning if you run out, just as much as it is with an ICE car. I think only people who live in areas without chargers and needing to pusht he range of their car feel 'range anxiety'. Everyone else is just not planning.

I live in an area with plenty of chargers everywhere and with PlugShare I know exactly where they are. I never have to worry running out of juice. I have never run empty.

But I agree with the OP, the great convenience of an EV is not having to worry about range at all because you always start with a full battery in the morning. Something you can't do with an ICE. We are just used to having gas stations everywhere so we never have to plan driving an ICE car. In some situations you need to plan driving an EV. That's an inconvenience, not 'range anxiety'.

 

[Peter_M]

Never had range anxiety - I've found I can trust what the car tells me for the range that's left on a trip. In fact, as I've owned the car for more time, I find I'm more comfortable cutting my trips a bit closer to zero range, arriving with 20km instead of 50 by speeding up a bit as I get closer to the destination. And I agree that driving an EV is more convenient than a gas car. I never look at the battery gauge any more unless I'm doing a long trip, 'cause I know my regular nightly charge (to 80%) is enough for all the driving I'd ever do around the city.

 

[gpetti]

Trying to invert range anxiety and apply it to ICE's vs EV's seems kind of silly. Do people forget how easy it is to buy gas after only driving an EV for a few months?

Let's be realistic. I live in a small suburb of Boston (~6000 people). All the main roads out of my neighborhood have a gas station within a mile. I literally cannot go anywhere without passing a gas station.

Go watch the battery swap demo. The Audi driver finishes putting 23 gallons of gas in his car in 3 minutes. If you are really that late for work, only get 5 gallons in a minute (or better yet, get up earlier :wink.

If you run out of gas in an ICE (or get "range anxiety" for driving with the low gas light on), it's your own damn fault for not filling up or not watching the gauges. In all my years of driving, I've run out of gas once. And it was my own fault, for trying to get to a cheap station to save a couple of bucks on a fillup.

OK, I supposed driving through rural Montana at 2am with 1/4 tank could cause "range anxiety", but filling up beforehand is part of basic travel planning for a trip like that.

Whether it is literally "anxiety" or just the need to plan carefully, the points you mention are the same ones that EV drivers mention (in this thread and elsewhere) for long distance driving with EVs - that is if you have anxiety and or run out of electricity its "your own damn fault". My point is that for me (and many drivers) the need to think about my energy and plan to avoid anxiety is relatively infrequent as I only drive long distance occasionally. However trivial you make it sound to buy gas it is a persistent and every present part of your day to day life, planning, watching the gauges, the fuel light, what time of night it is, whether you will have time in the morning (if you don't have time on the way home), do you have your wallet? Is there a line up? Is the pump out of order? Did you only put 5 gallons in last time you filled - so you need to go again? I think the extent of this - while a relatively minor nuisance in the big scheme is much more apparent to me now when I'm driving my wife's ICE or renting one. This is a benefit of driving EVs that I hadn't fully appreciated because there is so much dialog about the long distance issue. When it comes to my everyday driving, I have zero need to think about how much energy I have, let alone actually spend time putting more energy in the car. Did I mention it gets into negative digits temperature where I live? Makes even a quick fill a real pain.
Just to reiterate an original point in my post. I'm not saying that driving long distance in an EV doesn't have unique challenges - just that for me the negatives of EV have a tiny impact on my life whereas the positives have a constant positive impact. I'm also very pleased that Tesla is continuing to work on battery range, charging speed, battery swaps or whatever so even long distance travel becomes a non-issue.

 

[jerry33]

When it comes to my everyday driving, I have zero need to think about how much energy I have, let alone actually spend time putting more energy in the car.

That's pretty much it. The only time I even think about range is on trips, and a bit of planning works every time. If I had one of the non-Tesla EVs, I'd have to think about range every single day.

 

[Kbsilver]

That's pretty much it. The only time I even think about range is on trips, and a bit of planning works every time. If I had one of the non-Tesla EVs, I'd have to think about range every single day.

I believe this well summarizes the RA (Range Anxiety) issue. It occurs less often than with an ICE vehicle (presuming you are home charging), but when RA does occur such as on occasional trips, it can be more severe. While I am not an owner, yet (still need to convince the SO to lay out so much $$) , I would have no problem planning trips around charging points and allocating the extra time for charging. My anxiety would come from arriving at a SC, and for some reason be unable to charge.

 

[J1mbo]

My anxiety would come from arriving at a SC, and for some reason be unable to charge.

That's not RA, that's frustration...

 

[David99]

My anxiety would come from arriving at a SC, and for some reason be unable to charge.

I've owned my Model S for 6 month and put 24k miles on it, I did many road trips between Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Diego, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Minneapolis, and more. I would say about 40% of my driving has been done with Superchargers. I have never arrived at one and couldn't charge. Once there was a wait at Hawthorne but they upgraded it and and added more chargers. Tesla is very good about keeping them up and running 100%. Don't worry

 

[jerry33]

My anxiety would come from arriving at a SC, and for some reason be unable to charge.

No different than a gas station being closed when you arrive. Not a problem in the city, but in many small towns don't have 7x24 gas stations. In the past I've had to wait several hours for one to to open. It's not something I'd stress over.

 

[mknox]

My anxiety would come from arriving at a SC, and for some reason be unable to charge.

I had that exact scenario the first ever time I used a Supercharger. I had driven from my home in the Toronto area to Angola, IN on my way to Chicago and when I plugged in, I would only get a red ring on several stalls. I was a long way from home and freaked out that I may be stuck, or in for an awfully long drive with Level 2 charging (which works flawlessly).

After some futzing around, I eventually got it to work, but I would get an error message on the screen and the red ring if I so much as breathed on the cable after it connected. Had the same issues at Mishawaka and Aurora Superchargers.

When I got home, I took it in, but because (at the time) we had no Superchargers in Canada, they were unable to diagnose any problem. HPWC, UMC and the J1772 adapter all worked perfectly. When the Toronto Supercharger station opened up, I went there and it seemed to work just fine.

 

[martinwinlow]

Most of the major metropolitan areas around me are 200+ miles away from where I live with little or no (mostly no) charging infrastructure in between. ... I can plan a trip to St.Louis and have no trouble at all getting there on a max range charge, but then, at the other side of the weekend, if the weather turns cold and rainy, with the slight elevation increase for the return trip, getting home can become a near impossibility.

St Louis has *5* ChaDeMo chargers according to PlugShare... What's the problem? MW

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

St Louis has *5* ChaDeMo chargers according to PlugShare... What's the problem? MW

That would need the ChaDeMo adapter, and some charging in between.

 

[gpetti]

Just read this article that nicely sums up the point I was trying to make here.

Electric Car Convenience vs Range Anxiety Anxiety

 

[Aargau]

I think range anxiety is real, but it's diminishing: more superchargers, larger batteries, prototype battery replacement stations, better web apps to find chargers.

I've already ascertained that we're at the tipping point. Traveling will only get easier in the future, so buying now will show its value moving forward.

 

[McMuggets]

Here ya go. Brand new article from Motley Fool that touches on this subject:

4 Things I Learned Driving a Tesla for 10,000 Miles (TSLA)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I've not had any range anxiety on long trips. You plan your stops, have a backup, and drive to the plan--just like flying. Works every time. I had a lot more range anxiety in an ICE vehicle.

But you wouldn't have that range anxiety in an ICE, if you used equal amount of time (or even less) for planning. A lot of the range anxiety in an ICE comes from the fact that we are so used to being able to fuel pretty much anywhere, so we leave it to the last minute. Fueling an ICE is very quick too, so in reality mostly it is lack of priority than lack of time, whereas with a BEV charging realism can efinitely be a function of time. It is telling of the BEV experience that planning goes along with it so naturally, and things like backup options - we are not sure we can charge anywhere, because in reality we can't, especially not fast, but perhaps not at all. I can't remember planning "backups" for ICE driving ever, but with the Model S I have to do it.

BEVs do have the unique benefit of being charged up after a "good night's sleep". That is an actual benefit BEVs do enjoy over ICEs, so that part of the OPs post certainly resonates with me as well. Combine that with large-enough maximum range and you are on to a winner for many daily uses, for sure. Model S is already quite far there, however I've noticed that range sufficient for many days of driving causing a similar reaction as not fueling an ICE - I know I can get away with not charging very often, so sometimes I find myself not plugging in and then if the next day or the day after takes an unplanned turn (more driving than just the commute), then I may be in trouble and with much less support infrastructure to help me out compared to were I driving an ICE. I have taught myself out of this habit, but sometimes do find it a bit of a pain to plug in for night (other times I find it enjoyable because it is still a very new sensation).

Of course the long-distance is the main issue with BEVs. Some mere 220V charging won't do it there, unless you are planning to spend the night somewhere. You need quick chargers, which may or may not be available in the region. I've, more than once, driven my Model S to an EV charging station to find CHAdeMO or the franken plug as the only option.

I'm not belittling Tesla's supercharger network or efforts either, because they are massive considering the size of the company vs. the huge task at hand, but the network is still very sparse or non-existent is many places.

- - - Updated - - -

No different than a gas station being closed when you arrive. Not a problem in the city, but in many small towns don't have 7x24 gas stations. In the past I've had to wait several hours for one to to open. It's not something I'd stress over.

Sure, but ICE cars in general have longer ranges and there are still vastly more gas stations than there are compatible charging stations. Also, depending on locale automated 24/7 gas stations may be the norm.

With an ICE, one could also fairly easily carry on 100 kilometers worth of spare gas if riding into the wilderness.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I've had "schedule anxiety" due to slow Level II charging and needing to get to an airport on time... but not range anxiety.

Isn't schedule anxiety just a part of range anxiety, though?

I was once stranded too far from home charging on a 220V public charger when I realized it would not charge enough before the car park would close for the day. Luckily I found the only other alternative that didn't have such a limitation locally, but it was a bit hair-raising. Not that waiting for hours at the public charger would be fun or convenient in any case, but in this case it would not have been possible even.

Not being able to charge enough when you get home certainly has reared its head to me as well when unexpected drives happen, though in those cases usually I had started the day on less than full. Home charging can be fairly slow too depending on what is realistic in your location, so if the range is low and you arrive late, an early start may happen with less than a full charge even if charged immediately on arrival.

All this will eventually get sorted out once home-charging solutions become faster and more commonplace, and public quick charging prevalent, but until then it is not so easy for many.

 

[RAW84]

I'll agree range anxiety is, generally, overstated for the 200+ mile range Model S and most people's driving habits. I'll also agree that the convenience of home charging overnight is understated for most people's driving habits.

I can't agree that ICEs have more range anxiety. No way to spin the advantage of fueling from 0-100% in a few minutes with a well developed fuel infrastructure.