I find many are impressed with the vehicle even without showing autopilot. It’s not like you HAVE to use it.
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Things my wife said about Navigate on Autopilot tonight
- Thread starter AlanSubie4Life
- Start date
I find many are impressed with the vehicle even without showing autopilot. It’s not like you HAVE to use it.
When it first came out it did that to me over and over. Then I realized you MUST have "some force" on the wheel through the entire lane change. It's not the same as Auto Steer where it periodically needs to sense it. It needs to know you are their the whole time.
It's also intuitive to "lighten" your grip when it wants to change lane, so it can steer. But you have to do the opposite. It is also NOT same as when you initiate the lane change you can have a lighter grip through the change. But when it decides to change lanes you have to "help it" (all the way through) as soon as you "let up" it aborts.
In the end it was more "work" using no confirmation lane change than the basic blinker initiated one.
I just rest my hand at 7 o’clock on the wheel and it provides enough torque pressure. Doesn’t abort.
Browsing this thread, I see lots of suggestions of follow-distance and creep, but has anyone tried lowering regen?
When I get the most jerks is when AP suddenly cuts velocity and regen jumps in. It doesn't seem able to feather the pedal and instead goes into a coast which turns on 100% regen.
When I get the most jerks is when AP suddenly cuts velocity and regen jumps in. It doesn't seem able to feather the pedal and instead goes into a coast which turns on 100% regen.
Haven't read through all 10 pages, but my wife and kids feel the same as OP's wife. That said, on highways during trips I can get away with it if I put the car in Chill mode and reduce the steering feel as well. It's not perfect, but massive improvement vs the jerkiness otherwise experienced. If I don't make these setting changes with them in the car either someone will get motion sickness (happened twice) or I'll get yelled at.
I don't get to use NOA with the family in the car very often, but I recently did a trip with about 75 minutes continuous on NOA with very few complaints from my wife or children. Mainly my wife doesn't like it when the car dings or makes other noises coming out of autopilot. She just assumes something bad has happened to make it do that.
As stated by others, it is weird how different people perceive the performance of AP/NOA. I actually think its quite smooth in accel / decel steering, most of the time when on the interstate. (Unless maybe it really is different on different cars or in different areas. I wouldn't think so, but who knows.)
The only area that I don't think it's very smooth at yet is ramps. Especially entering them if not following another car. It definitely seems to barrel into ramps with early curves too fast. I'm not sure why they can't program it to slow down prior to entering a ramp curve just based on map data, but I guess I don't know how they are trying to program it. If it follows another car into a ramp which slows down like a typical driver it's usually fine.
I definitely don't use AP on undivided roads with anybody in the car. That's another topic altogether. (I'm assuming we are all talking about divided highway performance in this thread.)
As stated by others, it is weird how different people perceive the performance of AP/NOA. I actually think its quite smooth in accel / decel steering, most of the time when on the interstate. (Unless maybe it really is different on different cars or in different areas. I wouldn't think so, but who knows.)
The only area that I don't think it's very smooth at yet is ramps. Especially entering them if not following another car. It definitely seems to barrel into ramps with early curves too fast. I'm not sure why they can't program it to slow down prior to entering a ramp curve just based on map data, but I guess I don't know how they are trying to program it. If it follows another car into a ramp which slows down like a typical driver it's usually fine.
I definitely don't use AP on undivided roads with anybody in the car. That's another topic altogether. (I'm assuming we are all talking about divided highway performance in this thread.)
My wife is one who is constantly driving from the passenger seat. She tenses up or even moves her foot to her "brake". Often I was already breaking or about to change lanes. One trip it got bad enough I stopped on the side of the highway and told her to drive. Since I could stay quiet while she drove and she could not while I drove she would drive when we went somewhere together from then on. lt lasted 18 months. She begged me to drive again and swore she would try better.
Now that we have the X I don't expect to make that demand again. I have driven for over 50 years without all these features. I prefer old cruise control without radar but am living with it. I love autosteer but don't feel I have to have NOA but bought FSD anyway as I am a computer geek and want to see where it takes us. Meanwhile 50 years of driving have made me used to manually driving so I can live with it while it progresses. The computer spaceship that is an X will keep me grinning for whatever time I have left.
Now that we have the X I don't expect to make that demand again. I have driven for over 50 years without all these features. I prefer old cruise control without radar but am living with it. I love autosteer but don't feel I have to have NOA but bought FSD anyway as I am a computer geek and want to see where it takes us. Meanwhile 50 years of driving have made me used to manually driving so I can live with it while it progresses. The computer spaceship that is an X will keep me grinning for whatever time I have left.
Reading through the thread....Somehow 'Autopilot' just became an clinical initiator of espousal associated neurotic hypersensitivity. Lets be real. Even without autopilot, a spouse can be very capable of auto-generating an unrelaxed state of mind. It does not seem to be a unique skill. Its like evening headaches, 80% of which are strangely associated with stressful interaction. But be grateful. One only becomes truly aware of the value of marital bliss after some tactless edgy interactions. I have 4 decades of experience with this. And lets face it, any excuse to display irritation is better than no excuse. Today its autopilot. Tomorrow its waiting at the supercharger, and of course, "Well, for $100k, you would think it would at least come with an ice cream dispenser and maybe a microwave!" There will always be something available to test one's patience and sanity.
I feel the same way about autopilot’s lane placement—it’s a good 12 to 18” left of where I generally drive, and it’s dry nervous-making when an oncoming car is hugging the line on a curve and AP doesn’t adjust accordingly. I often take over for that reason alone, and now I mostly limit my AP use to highway only, where there’s no oncoming traffic in adjacent lanes.
I wish lane placement preference was software-adjustable.
I didn't read a lot of this thread but hit a few posts. Agree 100% with the original post and have experienced similar reactions from my wife as well. I also agree that Tesla should read the wiki page on what a low-pass filter is (if it exists).
Anyway, IMHO I believe that the "Tesla AP" experience is fundamentally different for the passenger than it is for the driver. The driver knows (or should know) and can anticipate what the car is trying to do based on the environment around the vehicle at that moment. Passengers are not usually paying attention... and *don't like being surprised* and, when surprised, experience a visceral response akin to "WTF is going on?" Experiencing such events can fundamentally ruin the riding experience in a Tesla. It's amazing how being two feet away can result in this but makes sense when you think about it.
Sure, we can get used to it but the "passenger experience" should be improved. If you think of it, we all remember scary experiences from our childhood. We compartmentalize them but still remember them as adults. Trust is a learned thing and doesn't come from a manual.
For the record, my Model 3 is the best car I ever owned and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. When others are in the car, I only use AP on Nav during the straightaways due to this problem. I also cringe whenever the vehicle decelerates for seemingly inexplicable reasons here and there and hate having to apologize to my passengers.
I expect the vehicle to get better and hope that these goals will be achieved before it gets too much of a bad rep.
Anyway, IMHO I believe that the "Tesla AP" experience is fundamentally different for the passenger than it is for the driver. The driver knows (or should know) and can anticipate what the car is trying to do based on the environment around the vehicle at that moment. Passengers are not usually paying attention... and *don't like being surprised* and, when surprised, experience a visceral response akin to "WTF is going on?" Experiencing such events can fundamentally ruin the riding experience in a Tesla. It's amazing how being two feet away can result in this but makes sense when you think about it.
Sure, we can get used to it but the "passenger experience" should be improved. If you think of it, we all remember scary experiences from our childhood. We compartmentalize them but still remember them as adults. Trust is a learned thing and doesn't come from a manual.
For the record, my Model 3 is the best car I ever owned and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. When others are in the car, I only use AP on Nav during the straightaways due to this problem. I also cringe whenever the vehicle decelerates for seemingly inexplicable reasons here and there and hate having to apologize to my passengers.
I expect the vehicle to get better and hope that these goals will be achieved before it gets too much of a bad rep.
This drives me nuts, because it seems like such a simple fix. Cross traffic is traveling at x feet per second and will clear the intersection in y seconds. We won’t be at the intersection for s seconds at current speed.
If s >> y then don’t friggin hit the brakes!
I don’t mind if AP drives conservatively when necessary or when there’s a big uncertainty cloud around what the other traffic might do. But I really hate when it acts STUPID, or like a nervous first-time driver.
I routinely leave EAP engaged and drive with my foot on the accelerator in traffic. The jerkiness of TACC is just too annoying, along with issue you mention above. I also don’t like how it will bring you to a near standstill if the car in front of you is slowing to make a 90 deg turn. It just isn’t representative of a human driver. We slow as we know they’ll be out of our way soon. But TACC uses them as a hard stop until they are established well outside of your lane. I override acceleration all the time. I still get the steering assist, but yes, in many ways, this defeats the whole purpose.
I also have a MS that was built in April. I've only experienced very occasional issues with Cruise Control phantom braking. I've not noticed any issues with jerkiness in slow traffic. That said, I don't use NoA or autosteer much. It nags too much if it does not detect hands on the wheel. If I have to do that, I might as well steer myself. I do like CC though.
stevewoz
Member
The same thing happens to us over and over, locally and especially on long trips, but with a lot more cussing and a lot more acknowledgment that the dumbest human driver in the world is better and doesn't make such 'mistakes'. Our other car is a Chevy Bolt EV and it's fine and we go through a lot less stress in it. We have learned to turn off auto-steering when other cars or unusual road conditions are around and even turn it off when nothing is going on now. We have learned that you have to be more attentive in such situations with autopilot than without it. And the adaptive cruise control, which isn't 'beta' as far as I know, shocks us. When it halts us suddenly on a freeway we sometimes notice that our cruise control setting on the dashboard briefly changes from 70 to 25 or 35 mph and then flips back to 70. Is this some navigation system error? It's scary and dangerous. We only drive our Chevy Bolt EV locally.
Yes, ABSOLUTELY YES! I've posted elsewhere that the software budget should be spent hiring, training, and most of all, retaining, good software engineers. This firelight, dune buggy nonsense is absolutely NOT what I spent $67,000 on.
And, most of all, the board of directors should instruct Elon Musk to not tweet a thing anymore. If it were any other C-level executive in any other company they'd likely be fired by now. I am not a "child of the 80s" but if I were I'd be offended Musk thinks I still live in the 80s and long for those video arcades so much I want one in my car.
I have definitely remarked on that. I have prided myself on the ability to make a smooth, almost imperceptible stop since I was in driver's ed at age 15. I can't fathom why it's so hard for a computer to get that right.
That said, I generally enjoy EAP, generally find it useful, and use it on the highway as often as I can. I hate phantom braking but it seems to be becoming a bit less frequent. As for jerkiness, a few months ago, I was having a lot of that, as if my car was connected with an iron rod to the car in front of me who was obviously being very twitchy on the accelerator and the brake. But it's been better for me lately. My wife doesn't usually seem to mind the way EAP drives at all, apart from the occasional phantom braking.
NoA remains completely unusable for me. In fact, I have turned it off completely so that the option doesn't even appear in the navigation directions window.
SeminoleFSU
Voluntaryist
There's all sorts of edge cases that will stymie the robo taxi dream ... Emergency vehicles behind you needing to get by (or worse yet way up in front of you expecting you to pull over and stop so they can blow through an intersection), pulling over for funeral processions (and realizing when its over based on last car with hazards on)... all sorts of weird stuff we humans just do and take for granted
At least in a HW2.5 car, categorically no. The V9 software can't read speed limit signs no matter where they are. However, that said, it does pick up geocoded speed limits and perhaps, doubtful in my opinion, the road contains a conflicting geocoding. And I've observered phantom braking when there is no overpass involved whatsoever.
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