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Thinking about purchasing, but have a bunch of newbie questions...

Discussion in 'Model X' started by Spelly88, May 16, 2018.

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  1. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Owner of two Model S (P85 purchased early 2013 and 100D purchased last year), with Model X scheduled for June:
    1. Can someone give me an idea of cost per year for owning the X? For instance, with the RR, I seem to pay around 3-5k annually for annual service, oil change, brakes/pads, & other random things that RR service finds which all seem to be outside the warranty. I'm also not even counting gas.

      We've purchased the maintenance plans and extended warranty. The maintenance plan provides a slight discount, plus locks in the pricing for the duration of the plan, providing some savings. The only item not covered by the maintenance plan and warranty is the tires, plus you will have a $200 deductible for service under the extra 50K mile warranty. Note that the regular and extended warranties also cover towing to the nearest service center.

    2. Can you haggle the price at all, or is it just whatever the website says? If you can’t, are there any breaks in trying to buy an inventory model? (assuming you can find any)

      This is one of the "benefits" dealerships provide - the list price isn't the actual price. With Tesla - the price you see is the real price - no haggling. Configure your car online and click on the order button - and you're done.

    3. Is it worth even thinking about a used one?

      Because depreciation typically averages about 24-25% per year (for most cars), you can save quite a bit by purchasing a used Tesla. And because there are far fewer moving parts and the motor/battery is covered for 8 years and unlimited miles, it can be a pretty good deal, if purchasing a new S/X is outside of your price range.

    4. I still need to do a test drive. Can/Will they bring the car to you or do I have to visit the showroom?

      Agree on getting an overnight test drive. When we placed our Model X order a few weeks ago, the local Gallery was able to get us a 24 hour test drive of an X. We drove it around town (to compare driving vs. our two S cars) and took it home to see how it fit in the garage and compare the seating and cargo space. And were sold on getting a Model X instead of the Model 3 we had reserved.

    5. It appears I’d want the PUP because I live in the Philly area suburbs and we have cold winters, so the subzero package seems necessary right? Also, I like nice audio and am I reading it correctly where satellite radio does not come with the car if you don’t get the PUP? The self-presenting doors scare me since I park in a tight parking garage for work every day and I don’t want them to bang into other cars. I’d most likely disable this feature.

      We plan to disable the self-presenting doors. In a two Tesla family, we don't want the doors opening every time we enter the garage and go to the S 100D. We've purchased PUP in all 3 of our Tesla cars, since we plan to keep each car for around 100K miles - and over that time, the extra features you get with PUP are worth it.

    6. If I’m correct, you can activate the EAP and FSD after it arrives, but you pay an extra $1k for each? Are either worth it?

      You can activate them later. As of today, activating the features later will cost you an additional $1000. However, many believe the future activation price could increase for FSD if Tesla decides a hardware upgrade is needed. We purchased both with our S 100D and X 100D. EAP is working pretty well right now as a "driver assist" feature. We drove from Houston to Dallas last weekend, and had EAP running almost the entire way - maintaining speed and lane position, and doing the lane changes, with only a few times taking over control.

      As for FSD, even if Tesla never gets approval for Full Self Driving, there should be benefits for purchasing FSD by activating the extra 4 cameras. Musk has stated the AP software will start using the FSD's extra 4 cameras later this year, and if using those cameras makes AP safer and able to operate under more circumstances, we believe the extra FSD cost is justified. Though we're still holding out hope Tesla will figure it out - and in several years the cars will drive themselves (even if it's just on the highways).


    7. I was reading another thread on here about the Textile interior vs. the White. Is the Textile cloth? Do owners seem to like it? I haven’t seen it in person yet but I hope to shortly.

      We have Ultra White in our S 100D (delivered last March) and it's been great - and still ultra white. We had a Model 3 ready to configure in February and had been waiting until the Ultra White was available for the 3's before we placed our order. And when we decided to switch to a Model X instead, it will also have Ultra White - which should look even better with the new graphite trim.

      We do carry some ultra white towels in the back of our S to lay on the seats if we're getting in with damp clothes, to minimize the risk of staining the seats - but so far, if we get a mark on the seats, the marks have come right off (get some baby wipes to carry in the car).


    8. Is the Tesla wall charger worth getting? What does it typically cost to install? If I park in a garage during winter months, and in the driveway otherwise, where should I get it installed? What do others in my situation do?

      Tesla has lowered the price of the HPWC to about the same as the other charging cables. However, for almost everyone, you really don't need to charge your car at the highest speed supported by the HPWC (72A for the newer cars, 80A for the older Teslas). Charging on a 14-50 outlet will provide a full charge overnight - and you save $$$ by going with the 14-50 vs. installing 100A circuit for the HPWC, plus the additional effort to mount (and future dismount) the HPWC from the wall.

      Would usually recommend charging in a garage, if you can. That reduces the heating and cooling needed to keep the interior and battery pack within acceptable ranges.


    9. What’s the best way to order? Online, or going to a showroom and talking to someone? (an OA?)

      Online - there are only a few options. You can ask for help at a showroom or from Tesla's phone support line. But ordering a Tesla isn't much more difficult than buying something online from Amazon. [My first Model S was actually shipped via UPS to my front door!]

    10. If showroom, does anyone have a good reference they can share for the Devon, PA location?
    11. Any accessories that this does not come with that I should consider getting? Floor mats, etc.?

      While you probably won't ever use it - we carry the UMC (shipped with the car) in the cars at all times, in case there's a charging emergency and we can't find a supercharger, destination charger or public J1772 charger - like have the tire repair kit. For our S 100D, we ordered the 14-50 cable from Tesla and mounted that on the wall next to the outlet using Tesla's cable organizer - and leave that in the garage at all times.

      Mentioned the towels to cover the seats - if you get ultra white seats, would recommend getting some ultra white towels to lay on top, whenever you're concerned about protecting the seats. The seats hold up pretty well and the towels may not be needed, but better to be safe - than sorry.

      You should get the tire pump/tire repair kit - which wasn't included in either of our Tesla's. Since Tesla cars don't have spare tires, if you have a tire leak, this could patch you up enough to drive for a while. Though if you do get a flat tire, you can call Tesla for service - and they'll either replace the tire onsite or get you a tow to the nearest location for replacing the tire.
    12. Lastly, anything I’m NOT asking that I should know about? (I do know about the tax credit and to use a referral code whenever I finally order)

      Tesla has come a long way since we bought our first S P85 in early 2013. They now have the supercharger network and destination chargers - and both are expanding - so there are many options for charging away from home.

      If you do plan road trips though, you should expect it will be different than driving an ICE, because you'll need to plan for where you will charge along the route and at your destination. Before taking a road trip, I'll check the Tesla website and Plugshare to verify the status of superchargers and destination chargers we plan to use. We'll book hotels that have chargers whenever possible. And if we're going to be stopping at several superchargers on the route, we'll try to stop at a supercharger located near or at a restaurant so we can get a full charge while eating.

      With the onboard trip planning software and the planner on their website, Tesla does most of the route planning for you, but you still want to spend a little time prior to each trip to plan out your charging - and avoid "charging anxiety" while driving.


    13. How does trading in your car work, especially if you order online?

      We did a trade-in with our S 100D last year and plan to do the same this year with the X. Even though Tesla can't sell cars in Texas, they've worked out a way to do a trade-in. Last year, we took our car to Carmax and get an appraisal, that Tesla used for the trade-in price. This year we'll be trading in our S P85, so I expect them to set the trade-in price. We drove the old car with us to the Tesla Service Center and drove away with our new car.

    14. Do we know about when the 2019 models will be coming out? Wondering if it's worth getting a 2018 or waiting for the 2019 models...

      Get used to it - there are no model years. Tesla introduces changes whenever they're ready. After we placed our X 100D order, they changed the interior and now we'll get the graphite trim instead of the silver trim we have in our S 100D. Though most of the time, these changes could happen after you get your car - which is what happened last year after our S 100D was delivered, and Tesla made the 72A charger standard (we only have the 48A charger, which was standard when we order our S 100D).

      If you wait until next year, there will be improvements. But that will be true for every year - and you'll never get your car. After getting our S P85, Tesla introduced many new features - power folding mirrors, parking sensors, AutoPilot, ... - and each time we'd go through a period of "feature envy" and then get back to enjoying the car since the P85 was still the best car we'd owned. It wasn't until they added the 100D with much longer range that we found the difference significant enough to buy a new S.

      My advice - look at the configuration available today - and if you like it - buy it. If you are concerned Tesla might introduce a new feature in the next 6-12 months, and you want to wait for it, you may never pull the trigger and might be better off buying a car from another manufacturer with "model years".
     
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  2. Nilnoc

    Nilnoc Member

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    Took delivery of my Model X in March. Worked with an owner advisor in Rockville, MD. Good experience. Test drove there, and immediately wanted to put in my order. I waited 3 days, and did not cool off.

    I very much like my standard textile seats. To my wife and I, they look good bolstered with fine vegan leather. This is not crappy velour type mouse fur. The fabric is very similar to fabric on my 13 year old Jeep Wrangler - which still looks new (though the Jeep only has 25k miles). With the amazing windshield, the black interior does not feel confining. Also, I really think the black wood trim with the standard interior is classy. YMMV.

    Hardest choice for us was color. Black X's can look bad ass, just be sure it's not worth $1,000 for a color you'd really prefer. And would have an easier time keeping clean looking.

    As for the Premium Upgrade Package, that is another thing we thought long and hard about. And then swallowed and went for it. Sound system is very very good. Slacker and Tune-in streaming are adequate for us, so we will likely never activate Sirius XM. The self presenting door never gets old for me. My driver's door is no more than 24" from my Wrangler when parked in the garage. Sensors always stop the self-opening short of hitting the Jeep. I park the Tesla in unpopular spots in parking lots, so not worried about door opening into another car. All that being said, PUP is not a must have for me. But I really do like it.

    Finally EAP. We have it. I've used the TACC a lot. I've used auto-steering very little. I'd get it again. But only because I would not be worried about the cost. If your looking for value, you could leave it off. Take the $1k penalty to add later if you change your mind.

    Good luck!
     
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  3. Spelly88

    Spelly88 Member

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    Thanks to all of you guys for the great information. I scheduled my test drive for the 31st. Can't wait!
     
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  4. Brass Guy

    Brass Guy Active Member

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    You're going to test drive, so congratulations on your upcoming purchase!
     
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  5. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    Haha its funny. Because once u drive a Tesla, its really hard not to drive a Tesla. anytime I rent a car for business trips I get angry. Even driving an Audi or BMW or Infiniti isn't as fun.
     
  6. Kuro68k

    Kuro68k Active Member

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    Regarding the extra 4 cameras, they are fitted anyway, right? So even if you don't have FSD then EAP should use them.
     
  7. MDR SEA

    MDR SEA 2015 Model S 85D, 2016 Model X 90D

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    One question - Have you driven an X yet?
    If not,
    go do so.

    If so,
    all your other questions will take care of themselves.

    Cheers
    MDR
     
  8. MelaniainLA

    MelaniainLA Member

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    And one thing that you didn’t ask about is the ability to get up to a 100% immediate tax write off on the Model X because it’s GVWR Weight exceeds 6000 pounds, making it eligible for the “Hummer Loophole.”

    Read this thread, focusing on the very last post:

    Time running out for Model X 2017 *massive* business-use tax deduction

    Using it as a business owner, I was able to get a fully loaded X for MUCH less than a well equipped Model 3 — no brainer on this one! Reach out to me directly to discuss but most of it is in the posts. If you’re an employee (paid on W2 only) won’t work. But if you’re a business owner or paid on 1099, it can work nicely if you document business miles with an app or handwritten mileage log.
     
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  9. azita

    azita Member

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    THANK you! I’m one of the people who benefited from that post — we had reserved a Model 3 and after reading what you and everyone else said, and checking with our accountant, it was clear we we’re eligible due to my freelance business. So goodbye long wait for the Model 3 - we got an X within a couple months for less money!!
     
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  10. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Of course, we're all really just guessing on this, because Tesla hasn't provided any documentation on what you are actually getting when you purchase the EAP or FSD options, other than what's listed on Tesla's website when you place the order, and even those statements are voided when you execute the Purchase Agreement.

    According to what has been stated (unofficially) by Tesla (or Musk), EAP activates 4 of the cameras (do we know which 4???).

    To activate the other 4 cameras requires purchasing FSD - and that (according to Musk) AP could start using the data from those extra cameras late this year (assuming they actually made the cross-country FSD demonstration trip).

    Using all 8 cameras should allow EAP to operate better and in more conditions, than relying on only 4 cameras. And this does create the potential of having EAP operate less safely if FSD hasn't been purchased, which could be an interesting issue if a Tesla is in a crash, while operating under EAP, and the other 4 cameras might have avoided the accident...

    Getting regulatory approval for FSD could take quite a while - though using all 8 cameras for driver assist mode seems achievable, and if that allows EAP to operate better, we think it's worth enough to justify purchasing FSD for our S 100D last year and again for our X 100D which should be delivered next month.
     
  11. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    All the cameras are activated regardless if you have FSD or not. Nobody knows which cameras the neural net uses during AP, but buying FSD doesn't improve your EAP experience at all. It is simply a feature set meant for future release.
     
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  12. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    If I'd paid upfront for FSD on two cars I would probably cling onto any justification, however intangible, at this stage! I do hope FSD arrives soon for those who have paid for it, but don't see it happening in the next year or two for all the obvious reasons.
     
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  13. Kuro68k

    Kuro68k Active Member

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    It would make no sense not to "activate" those extra cameras for safety. It would cost nothing, they are already fitted.
     
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  14. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    Well I guess that depends on whether or not the additional cameras are intended to be used in the EAP system or only intended for use in future FSD. What I think is extremely unlikely is a scenario where the extra cameras are used in EAP ONLY for those people who paid for FSD. That would make no sense whatsoever. But I can imagine some cameras being totally ignored for EAP if not deemed necessary to meet the full requirements of the EAP system. Either way it doesn't really matter for the end user providing EAP works as advertised, which today I think is close, but still not quite there yet.

    One relatively simple thing I wish they would do with the cameras is provide a simple overhead 360 degree view like nearly every other high end car has available. The X is a beast to park and the reversing camera alone is not really enough. Even our Nissan Qashqai has a 360 deg view and it is extremely useful. The surround camera on on the new Volvo XC90 is awesome too. Parking the X is a bit old school with tilted mirrors and no view at all of the front wheels near the kerb. Auto-parking makes up for it a little, but not always available and would still be good to monitor auto-parking with a surround view. I know this has been requested many times, but it's a glaring omission from what is now considered an industry standard feature in this class.
     
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  15. arubinst

    arubinst Member

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    When reading Tesla's description of EAP and FSD, you can see that EAP is a subset of FSD.

    It doesn't make any sense to develop two different approaches to the same problem when they can just have one FSD and cripple a bunch of features and sale that as EAP.

    You would still want the limited set of EAP features to be carried out in the safest way, and that should include all cameras.

    Limiting the number of cameras to 4 makes no sense. EAP is supposed to autonomously change lanes, drive ramp to ramp, let you get out of the car so that it can go find a parking spot and self park. Why would you want to do that with only 4 cameras if you have 8?
     
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  16. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    I get your point, but I don't think it's quite that simple in reality. EAP may well be a subset of FSD as far as the end user is concerned, but not necessarily so behind the scenes. EAP may well use all 8 cameras and it may well not too! FSD will of course use all the cameras, otherwise they wouldn't exist. That much at least we can assume. The rest is speculative, but yeah I agree that if the cameras are there then they may as well be utilised - unless EAP is intended to be fully backward compatible with cars that don't have the additional cameras to avoid having to update hardware etc. I'm sure all this has been discussed to death within Tesla's dev teams.
     
  17. Spelly88

    Spelly88 Member

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    As I eagerly await my test drive on the 31st, I thought of a few more questions to throw at you all. I googled most of these but I seem to get conflicting reports, as well as I like hearing the real world/current answers.

    1. If I only drive 20-30 miles a day, should I still be charging every night, or should I be trying to get the battery close to empty before plugging back in?
    2. Is it safe to charge outside in the rain or snow?
    3. Is the included mobile charger already compatible with the NEMA 14-50 outlet or do you need an adapter? What about non-supercharger chargers? Is there an adapter kit that we need to buy to use other public charging stations?
    4. Worth buying an extra mobile charger to keep one at home and one in the car at all times? What's the current rate for an extra charger?
    5. Summon and Autopark sound really cool. Is that standard or do you need EAP for that? Also, do they actually work in real world scenarios? Basically, if I don't activate EAP right away, are there any cool features that come standard? (Aside from the entire car being cool I mean)
    6. I've read that Spotify is only enabled on the European models. Is that still the case?
    7. How's the nav system? Is it better than Waze, or is there any Waze integration? Can you use voice commands?
    8. Is there any sort of screen protector for the touchscreen? Maybe it's because I have 7 and 9 year old boys, but I'm used to putting a screen protector on anything I bring home.
    9. I know that the windshield is expanded some to the roof. Any issues with sun glare? I assume you still get some sun visors, but do they work well?
    I think that's enough for now... Again, thank you to anyone who wants to answer any of these, I really appreciate it... The anticipation for my test drive is killing me... I can't even imagine what it must be like to order one and then have to wait two months for delivery!
     
  18. GeorgeSymonds

    GeorgeSymonds Member

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    I’d also take a look at Tesla MS and MX cars, inventory and CPO listings across the US - it’s the only one out the three showing MX inventory at the moment including a couple of new demo/service cars saving a few $k. Volumes are so low on the MX is pays to check a few sites, they all seem to differ a little.
     
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  19. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    1. Yes charge it every night, but for 20-30 miles a day set your charge limit to 70% for maximum battery life. But don't stress over it too much. The key things to avoid are keeping the car at 100% charge for long periods (only charge to 100% when you need the range and do it just before you set off). Also don't let the battery go below 20% unless you really need the range and if you do charge it immediately when you get home. Ideally you want to set a daily charge limit that leaves you with around 30% or more at the end of the day. For longer trips just charge to whatever level you need. These batteries are very resilient.

    2. Yes

    3. You may need a Chademo adaptor, but depends on where you are driving. Probably best to check routes first as the adaptor is expensive. I don't need one myself

    4. Better to have a dedicated wall charger at home. The Tesla branded one is very good, but there are other cheaper alternatives

    5. Need EAP. Autopark works fine for me, never used summon - seen too many accidents reported with it!

    6. Spotify is not available in US, you get Slacker over there I believe

    7. Nav is good in the UK (basically Google maps), different in the US so I can't really comment

    8. You can get screen protectors, but do you really need one? It's not like you put the screen in your pocket. Do you have a screen protector on your desktop computer or even laptop? I'm betting no and I bet there are no scratches on it either!

    9. The top of the windscreen is well tinted and the sun visors work okay for blocking direct sunlight in your eyes. There is also a fabric sunshade that comes with the car (to cover the top of the screen), but it's not the most elegant solution! You can also buy sunshades for the FWD skylights, but I've never felt the need.

    PM me if you need a referral code. I think all you get right now is free supercharging but if you hang on they may re-introduce a credit too (as they have done in the past several times).
     
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  20. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    Point 12 is very important!
     
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