Thoughts on P85D being locked into 21 inch rims for Summer and Winter

[GetAmped]

On Wed Oct 22 at 1:40pm (Eastern) I spoke with Max Paris at HQ Sales that told me again like all other HQ Sales reps before (re: my other 6 calls) that people are ordering with the 19 inch winter package selected via the USA and Canada configurator, however he has been told that when the VIN’s are assigned, the configuration teams will not allow the 19 inch winter package to be ordered and will contact customers to force a change to the 21 inch package. I told him about the feedback from user in Norway indicating that in the configurator they can only select the Winter 19 inch package, however Max could not comment as he did not know about this and said the Website needs to be updated.

Max said he has opened a case with the configuration team to request the change from my order of the 21 inch Winter Tires to instead be the 19 inch Winter Tires. He said he feels that they will not allow it and will call me in a couple of days to let me know the decision. If 19's are not supported on the P85D I will be changing my order to a 85D (assuming 19's are supported on them, lol). Stay tuned for the response from Tesla. Everyone please call them and email them if this concerns you...

 

[HankLloydRight]

"The only reason we require the 21” for summer is because we need as much rubber on the road to put down the 691 horsepower."

And we've again proven just how much misinformation one can get from Tesla employees.

Don't get me wrong, most of them are great. But when given a question like this, I think many of them just answer off-the-cuff with answers like "we need more rubber on the road".

<rant on>
I have a pet-peeve when employees of companies make up their own "policy" on the spot instead of admitting they don't know something and taking 5 minutes to go ask for assistance from a manager or owner. Years ago, I once got into it with a bank MANAGER where my car loan was, trying to explain to her how simple-interest loans work. She had some other ideas about it, I have no idea how she got to be a bank manager with such limited knowledge of simple car loans. Things like this are really bad when limited intelligence employees are in a position of authority or power, and make up store policy on the spot, and when you challenge them, they get all defensive and offended. Happens all the time. </rant off>

 

[HankLloydRight]

My only complaint is the extremely limited options in the staggered size (265/35/R21) on my P85+.

That being said, if I had the option I would have ordered 19s.

I bought an inventory P85+ car with 21" wheels, so I didn't have the choice to order 19"s. I love the look of the 21"s (in the summer)... so instead, I traded out my 9" rear wheels for 8.5" rims, and then put on 245/45/21s all the way around. Cheaper tires, matching sizes, able to rotate them. I don't notice any difference from the 265s.

I also haven't had any problems with the 21"s wheels in the greater NY area (I've owned since March), but I also drive with one eye looking for and avoiding potholes.

I also have 19" TSTs for winter driving.

 

[andrewket]

I bought an inventory P85+ car with 21" wheels, so I didn't have the choice to order 19"s. I love the look of the 21"s (in the summer)... so instead, I traded out my 9" rear wheels for 8.5" rims, and then put on 245/45/21s all the way around. Cheaper tires, matching sizes, able to rotate them. I don't notice any difference from the 265s.

I also haven't had any problems with the 21"s wheels in the greater NY area (I've owned since March), but I also drive with one eye looking for and avoiding potholes.

I also have 19" TSTs for winter driving.

I went with 19 TSTs for summer, and tesla 19" for winter. Btw, the 245 Michelin tires will fit the 9" rims. It's within spec (I was surprised myself).

 

[sundoc]

So let me add this:

My DS called back today... he states that there is absolutely no problem running the 19's

I also just spoke with the Cali tesla ppl... had called earlier then realized that the west coast was still asleep. At first the sales guys said that the 19's can't be used with the P85D and that it had to be the 21's. I advised him that our winters up here in the North wouldn't take too kindly to the 21's and asked if there had been a change in the brakes/calipers etc. I also said that the European orders apparently have no winter 21 rim options. Then he replied that the 19's can fit but the engineers are advising against it due to torque handling issues...

So in a nutshell. The 19s will fit but the engineers advise against it.

 

[sundoc]

Posted this on the other D winter rims thread also...

My DS called back today... he states that there is absolutely no problem running the 19's

I also just spoke with the Cali tesla ppl... had called earlier then realized that the west coast was still asleep. At first the sales guys said that the 19's can't be used with the P85D and that it had to be the 21's. I advised him that our winters up here in the North wouldn't take too kindly to the 21's and asked if there had been a change in the brakes/calipers etc. I also said that the European orders apparently have no winter 21 rim options. Then he replied that the 19's can fit but the engineers are advising against it due to torque handling issues...

So in a nutshell. The 19s will fit but the engineers advise against it.

- - - Updated - - -

who knows whats going to happen... suffice it to say I'll get aftermarket 19s if I'm only offered 21s from Tesla for winters

 

[Chuck P85D]

rescinded for not caring anymore....

 

[Cottonwood]

I just got an e-mail from Tesla Fremont as a result of sending questions in a reply to their "Welcome to the Tesla Family!" e-mail after my order:

Thank you for your message and your amazing support. We are truly blessed to have great customers like you.

... It will be possible in a couple of days (I expect before the end of the week) to select 19” wheels for the P85D, rather than the recommended 21” (there will be an associated credit). Additional interiors colors, besides the black, will also be available.
...​

This looks great for 19's and for my desire to have an interior that is not black.

 

[dsm363]

How do you know? Have you tested it? no, no you have not.

in your everlasting anti-21 crusade, are you also informing all us minions that going from 21 to 19 will decrease handling performance? because I haven't seen you mention that. Or do you now want to argue with the well-known fact that more rubber = more grip?

- - - Updated - - -



may I ask why not? If the 21's have dedicated winter tires on them, won't they offer the identical traction?

Assuming the rubber compound was the same wouldn't traction be identical? Sure handling might be better with 21" rims and shorter sidewall but traction should be same (I think).

 

[HankLloydRight]

are you also informing all us minions that going from 21 to 19 will decrease handling performance?

Yes, it's well known that 21" wheels do perform better than 19" wheels, but that difference is really at the edge of performance/handling. Skilled drivers would be able to tell the difference. Everyday drivers? Probably not so much.

Or do you now want to argue with the well-known fact that more rubber = more grip?

Yes, more rubber does equal more grip, I don't think anyone is arguing that. But in this case, the difference of "rubber" between 19" and 21" is marginal (assuming the same width tires). They'll both have essentially the same contact patch size. The diameter of the tires on the 19" and 21" wheels should be essentially the same, therefore, the same amount of "rubber". That's why the excuse of "more rubber" is clearly just misinformation/misunderstanding.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Also, do we need two nearly identical threads talking about this?

 

[andrewket]

Also, do we need two nearly identical threads talking about this?

I agree. Mods, I vote we merge.

 

[andrewket]

I just received a call back from Tesla. The 19's will fit, but they are strongly advising against it, more so than on the P85+. The suspension and the stability of the car is designed around the firmer 21" wheels.

The person I spoke with is located at Freemont and specifically went and spoke with someone in engineering before providing me an answer.

So.. Take this for what it's worth. Personally, I'm likely still going to put my 19" TSTs on.

 

[derekt75]

Yes, it's well known that 21" wheels do perform better than 19" wheels, but that difference is really at the edge of performance/handling. Skilled drivers would be able to tell the difference. Everyday drivers? Probably not so much.

It's widely assumed that 21" wheels perform better.
but is this assumption correct?

19" wheels will most likely perform better than 15" wheels, but at some point the sidewall flex becomes irrelevant and the weight of the wheel starts making a bigger difference. Look at the tires on high performance racing cars, and you'll see that they're not rubber bands.

This thread indicates that 19" wheels are likely to perform better than 21s (assuming the same rubber compound).

 

[HankLloydRight]

I agree. Mods, I vote we merge.

threads for mods:

P85D conflicting information on ordering with 19 inch Winter rims
Thoughts on P85D being locked into 21 inch rims for Summer and Winter

 

[GetAmped]

As I started both threads, first my apologies for any duplication and second also vote to merge if possible under the Ordering Section...

 

[dsm363]

threads for mods:

P85D conflicting information on ordering with 19 inch Winter rims
Thoughts on P85D being locked into 21 inch rims for Summer and Winter

mod note: These threads have been merged

 

[commasign]

Jerome, the VP of sales just to replied to my email:

"Thank you for your note and your order of a Model S.

We will be introducing additional wheels for the P85D (although we do recommend the 21”). Jessica, whom I have copied on this message, is based in Rocklin and will be able to help you with the modifications."

 

[HankLloydRight]

Would be great for them to offer a P85D- which is the P85D without the "P85+" options (21"wheels, suspension upgrades, slightly less performance, lower price).

A man can dream.

 

[Denarius]

Would be great for them to offer a P85D- which is the P85D without the "P85+" options (21"wheels, suspension upgrades, slightly less performance, lower price).

A man can dream.

I want the suspension, just not the staggered wheels.