To Long Range or Not to Long Range...

[AlanSqB]

Good points all.

I'm concerned here in Colorado as I have the triple threat of weather, elevation and high speeds on the highway.

I fully expect that the 220 would be more like 150 or so on most of the trips I take so I'm going with the LR. I regularly have to travel 200 miles RT regionally here and, other than east, everything is uphill.

 

[smilepak]

My take is go long since 9k is the best value possible at the moment for the range.

There no words on battery upgrade so if you decide to want it later you have o buy a new car

 

[shrspeedblade]

Let's all not forget the importance of the LR tops out at 140mph as well. I mean, crap, I do have to make it to work on time and a measly 130mph just doesn't cut it!

 

[jsrawa]

I can get by now with the standard battery but my concern is being left with the lower range when/if my driving increases. I plan to keep the car as long as possible and I want to "future proof" it for a long as possible but at the same time won't fully utilize that extra 9k of range right now.

It's a tough call, especially if your daily commute is under 100mi roundtrip in my opinion

 

[SageBrush]

I can get by now with the standard battery but my concern is being left with the lower range when/if my driving increases. I plan to keep the car as long as possible and I want to "future proof" it for a long as possible but at the same time won't fully utilize that extra 9k of range right now.

The build-out of the SC network is a lot of future proofing.

 

[GasKilla]

It probably depends a lot on where you live too. I live in Austin and unfortunately currently there are not as many superchargers as I would like in the area. I would guess 90% of the time I'll be fine with the short range but my in-laws live about 70 miles away and I often drive around when I get there and it would be cutting it pretty close. There are no superchargers on the route I take to get there AND if I did need to stop at the supercharger on the way it would probably add another 30 minutes in addition to the 30 minutes spent at the supercharger. I have 3 kids and sometimes I make the trip just to pick up the kids from the grandparents after work so I might not even have a full charge when I leave and when I get there and get the kids I turn around and drive home all within minutes. I wouldn't want to have to stick around for several hours so I can charge before coming back.

With all that said I really want the faster 0-60 time because this is partly my midlife crisis car and I want it as fast as possible haha.

You'll have no problem going 140 miles round trip on a battery rated at 220 miles. Even at 90% charge 140 miles is no problem. The Tesla trip planner tells you how much energy you'll use on a trip (even includes round trip back to your starting point, you just have to check the box to always show round trip) so you'll never be guessing if you have to charge or not. The smaller battery will not be an issue with your described scenario. Also FYI the trip planner factors in elevation gain/loss but doesn't factor in the weather (wind, rain, etc).

PS- hot tip set up your car to display battery % instead of rated miles. You'll stop worrying about range in miles going up and down and learn to use % and the trip planner to know if you will make it or not.

 

[UnitaryExecutive]

The mass majority of my driving for the Model 3 will be around town, so the smaller battery would work just fine. The rub is, both my wife and I have family that live a little over a 100 miles away. We make that trip often and the 220 mile range is just enough to scare me off. I am planning to fork over the extra $$ for the additional range. I also have very high hopes for this car and plan on having it for a long time. I'm sure some longer road trip vacations will be in our future.

Isn't it smarter to just spend 1000 bucks, hire an electrician, and install a tesla charger at both their homes?

 

[UnitaryExecutive]

I own a 75d X and I've come to the conclusion that slightly more than 300 miles of range is perfect. You're not charging to 100%, the last 20-30 miles isn't really usable as you start getting range anxiety there, and, if you're like me, you don't want to putz around at 60mph and want to at least cruise at 75-80. If it's hot or cold you also lose a fair amount so 300m range gets you ~220, which is what you really want if you want to not think about things.

 

[insaneoctane]

I, too, am on the fence. I really don't know which way I will go. For me, I am trying to justify the LR in the following manner:

• Faster car. By about 10% I like fast cars and will never be able to justify P version. 5.1 seconds is faster and definitely worth something to me. Hmm maybe I would pay $1,500 for the extra Hp.
• Faster SC rate sounds good on paper. Can't tell you how much I would really benefit, but it is worth something. Hmm maybe I would pay $500 for faster SC
• Faster home charging. Worth maybe $250 to me.
• Get my car sooner. I want the options on the current first batch. My estimator shows Nov-Jan. If I choose LR I might get my M3 this year. Gets me fed tax credit without concern about Trump's actions for 2018 tax changes. Gets in line sooner for CA rebate (currently out of money, so it could matter. Get in line for CA HOV sticker, never know when they might end that. Sooner is Worth $1,000.
• Range. I would like to break this up into 3 distinct benefits for me
  • Resale. Even though I will likely drive this car for 200k miles, I think this ups my ultimate resale by at least $2,000
  • Battery wear. I really do expect to put 200k miles on this car and want to minimize deep discharge and other battery effects for 10 years. I am concerned about degradation on base model. My round trip commute is well within base capability at 110 mi/day, but with weather and freeway and elevation changes, I don't know how the base battery will fair after say 7 years and 140,000 miles. Battery wear "insurance" is worth $1,500 easy.
  • Range anxiety / flexibility. I own a 80 mile range Fiat now. We don't take it many places. I'd like to get as far away from that feeling as possible. Like many previous comments, I suspect that we'd choose the model 3 more often than the minivan for many trips if it was simple. Ironically, we choose the Fiat anytime it will make it and hold the cargo for the trip because the EV experience is really that much better. And it's a Fiat! Range flexibility is worth $2,000.

Adding that up gets me to $8,750 today. Almost there. The other consideration is knowing that my threshold for an expenditure tends to change over time. Things that I could not justify at the time of purchase that later, if I could go back, I would have gone ahead and bought (like the faster CPU, or leather option, or whatever) . I really notice this when I accessorize my purchases even when I thought I would be done spending on a particular item. So, avoiding the regret of not choosing the LR is also worth something!

Anyway, YMMV, but this is were my head is. I am close to justifying the LR, but I have no idea what I will ultimately buy!

 

[Quickstart88]

Perhaps my answer will come for S & X owners. LR @ 310 miles mean charging from 0 to 100%. Realistically you don't drain your battery to 0 or charge to 100% every time. Therefore in reality the average sweet spot should is 20% before going to zero and 80% full. Correct?
I am horrible at math. So battery package for LR you would want to keep it between 60 miles left before charging and ~ 240 miles at 80% charged. Let's not forget the ~ 5 to 7 percent battery delegation on battery for the life of the car.
This mean your true range is between 60 and 240 or 240-60 = 180 miles?
We are talking about 1/3 off the 310 miles? is that a fair statement?

For the standard at 220 miles, realistically taking 1/3 off. It's ~154 miles ?

 

[gregincal]

Perhaps my answer will come for S & X owners. LR @ 310 miles mean charging from 0 to 100%. Realistically you don't drain your battery to 0 or charge to 100% every time. Therefore in reality the average sweet spot should is 20% before going to zero and 80% full. Correct?
I am horrible at math. So battery package for LR you would want to keep it between 60 miles left before charging and ~ 240 miles at 80% charged. Let's not forget the ~ 5 to 7 percent battery delegation on battery for the life of the car.
This mean your true range is between 60 and 240 or 240-60 = 180 miles?
We are talking about 1/3 off the 310 miles? is that a fair statement?

For the standard at 220 miles, realistically taking 1/3 off. It's ~154 miles ?

Leaving 20% before charging isn't necessary. I'm pretty conservative with range, and even I consider 10% to be fine. Also, starting from home I definitely charge to 100% before a long trip.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Not a bad idea..

If you do, make sure they get estimates first and agree to discuss it with you before doing the install! My father offered to get a 14-50 outlet installed and I said I'd pay half even though I might only use it once a year. I told him that he shouldn't pay more than $500 or so unless he had a really complicated install. Unfortunately, he didn't get estimates and went with the first guy who then took months before he came by to install it. They charged him $900 just to run the wiring about 20 feet and he even managed to install it upside-down, not following the instructions that I provided. That price was nearly twice what it should've cost so I wasn't very happy when my father told me the total and expected me to pay half. There's now a Supercharger 40 minutes away from my father's house, so I really don't ever see the need to use his 14-50 outlet which ended up costing me $$$!

 

[TehDoak]

I, too, am on the fence. I really don't know which way I will go. For me, I am trying to justify the LR in the following manner:

• Faster car. By about 10% I like fast cars and will never be able to justify P version. 5.1 seconds is faster and definitely worth something to me. Hmm maybe I would pay $1,500 for the extra Hp.
• Faster SC rate sounds good on paper. Can't tell you how much I would really benefit, but it is worth something. Hmm maybe I would pay $500 for faster SC
• Faster home charging. Worth maybe $250 to me.
• Get my car sooner. I want the options on the current first batch. My estimator shows Nov-Jan. If I choose LR I might get my M3 this year. Gets me fed tax credit without concern about Trump's actions for 2018 tax changes. Gets in line sooner for CA rebate (currently out of money, so it could matter. Get in line for CA HOV sticker, never know when they might end that. Sooner is Worth $1,000.
• Range. I would like to break this up into 3 distinct benefits for me
  • Resale. Even though I will likely drive this car for 200k miles, I think this ups my ultimate resale by at least $2,000
  • Battery wear. I really do expect to put 200k miles on this car and want to minimize deep discharge and other battery effects for 10 years. I am concerned about degradation on base model. My round trip commute is well within base capability at 110 mi/day, but with weather and freeway and elevation changes, I don't know how the base battery will fair after say 7 years and 140,000 miles. Battery wear "insurance" is worth $1,500 easy.
  • Range anxiety / flexibility. I own a 80 mile range Fiat now. We don't take it many places. I'd like to get as far away from that feeling as possible. Like many previous comments, I suspect that we'd choose the model 3 more often than the minivan for many trips if it was simple. Ironically, we choose the Fiat anytime it will make it and hold the cargo for the trip because the EV experience is really that much better. And it's a Fiat! Range flexibility is worth $2,000.

Adding that up gets me to $8,750 today. Almost there. The other consideration is knowing that my threshold for an expenditure tends to change over time. Things that I could not justify at the time of purchase that later, if I could go back, I would have gone ahead and bought (like the faster CPU, or leather option, or whatever) . I really notice this when I accessorize my purchases even when I thought I would be done spending on a particular item. So, avoiding the regret of not choosing the LR is also worth something!

Anyway, YMMV, but this is were my head is. I am close to justifying the LR, but I have no idea what I will ultimately buy!

Only thing I disagree with here is your re-sale estimation. I think....at best, the value of the extended battery will decrease linearly with car value. Lets say you go with Extended Battery+ premium+ EAP...a 54k car. At 3 years, a base model 3 will be at 50%, so 17500...will people be paying nearly 27k for a "fully loaded" RWD 3? Probably not. And it certainly won't add much value at 200k miles with no warranty left.

 

[insaneoctane]

Only thing I disagree with here is your re-sale estimation. I think....at best, the value of the extended battery will decrease linearly with car value. Lets say you go with Extended Battery+ premium+ EAP...a 54k car. At 3 years, a base model 3 will be at 50%, so 17500...will people be paying nearly 27k for a "fully loaded" RWD 3? Probably not. And it certainly won't add much value at 200k miles with no warranty left.

I think that I said that the resale element was only worth $2k, so as long as I can resell my M3 for $2k more than base I should be happy. At 10 years and 200k miles let's assume the originally optioned to $46k base range is worth $5k....do I think that my originally optioned $55k LR is worth $7k? Sure, I do. Clearly no guarantee, but it passes my WAG meter

 

[napabill]

You'll find, as has been mentioned, that once you start driving the Tesla, you'll not want to drive anything else. And for trips, the autopilot package is REALLY nice. Not even a close call IMHO.

 

[insaneoctane]

Here's something I did out of curiosity. It fits under the range anxiety /flexibility benefit of my post above....

I drew 4 circles around my house at 85,125,200,280 miles:
85 represents how far I can drive base and get back home without charging.
125 represents how far I can drive LR and get back home without charging.
200 represents how far I can drive on trips before I need to reach a SC.
280 represents how far I can drive on trips before I need to reach a SC.

I also realize that I can't necessarily get this far because roads are not straight lines! ....I tried to roughly decrement mileage about 20% for round-trip and 10% for reaching SC (I don't know why I did that unevenly, but it was very late at night!)
Here's the source I found for drawing circles on Google maps :
How To Draw A Radius Around A Google Maps Location

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Here's something I did out of curiosity. It fits under the range anxiety /flexibility benefit of my post above....

I drew 4 circles around my house at 85,125,200,280 miles:
85 represents how far I can drive base and get back home without charging.
125 represents how far I can drive LR and get back home without charging.
200 represents how far I can drive on trips before I need to reach a SC.
280 represents how far I can drive on trips before I need to reach a SC.

I also realize that I can't necessarily get this far because roads are not straight lines! ....I tried to roughly decrement mileage about 20% for round-trip and 10% for reaching SC (I don't know why I did that unevenly, but it was very late at night!)
Here's the source I found for drawing circles on Google maps :
How To Draw A Radius Around A Google Maps Location
View attachment 239659

You can also use supercharge.info to easily draw circles around any or all Superchargers. There's a slider so that you can easily adjust the circles. To turn on all range circles, just select All Range Circles On under Map Options. To turn them on for individual Superchargers, just click on the Supercharger(s) and then click Circle On. To add a custom circle for your own custom point, just right-click, add a custom marker, click on it and turn the circle on.

 

[insaneoctane]

You can also use supercharge.info to easily draw circles around any or all Superchargers. There's a slider so that you can easily adjust the circles. To turn on all range circles, just select All Range Circles On under Map Options. To turn them on for individual Superchargers, just click on the Supercharger(s) and then click Circle On. To add a custom circle for your own custom point, just right-click, add a custom marker, click on it and turn the circle on.

Nice. Thank you!

 

[insaneoctane]

BTW @MorrisonHiker I could not figure out how to put a circle around my house with supercharge.info

 

[jsrawa]

I, too, am on the fence. I really don't know which way I will go. For me, I am trying to justify the LR in the following manner:

• Faster car. By about 10% I like fast cars and will never be able to justify P version. 5.1 seconds is faster and definitely worth something to me. Hmm maybe I would pay $1,500 for the extra Hp.
• Faster SC rate sounds good on paper. Can't tell you how much I would really benefit, but it is worth something. Hmm maybe I would pay $500 for faster SC
• Faster home charging. Worth maybe $250 to me.
• Get my car sooner. I want the options on the current first batch. My estimator shows Nov-Jan. If I choose LR I might get my M3 this year. Gets me fed tax credit without concern about Trump's actions for 2018 tax changes. Gets in line sooner for CA rebate (currently out of money, so it could matter. Get in line for CA HOV sticker, never know when they might end that. Sooner is Worth $1,000.
• Range. I would like to break this up into 3 distinct benefits for me
  • Resale. Even though I will likely drive this car for 200k miles, I think this ups my ultimate resale by at least $2,000
  • Battery wear. I really do expect to put 200k miles on this car and want to minimize deep discharge and other battery effects for 10 years. I am concerned about degradation on base model. My round trip commute is well within base capability at 110 mi/day, but with weather and freeway and elevation changes, I don't know how the base battery will fair after say 7 years and 140,000 miles. Battery wear "insurance" is worth $1,500 easy.
  • Range anxiety / flexibility. I own a 80 mile range Fiat now. We don't take it many places. I'd like to get as far away from that feeling as possible. Like many previous comments, I suspect that we'd choose the model 3 more often than the minivan for many trips if it was simple. Ironically, we choose the Fiat anytime it will make it and hold the cargo for the trip because the EV experience is really that much better. And it's a Fiat! Range flexibility is worth $2,000.

Adding that up gets me to $8,750 today. Almost there. The other consideration is knowing that my threshold for an expenditure tends to change over time. Things that I could not justify at the time of purchase that later, if I could go back, I would have gone ahead and bought (like the faster CPU, or leather option, or whatever) . I really notice this when I accessorize my purchases even when I thought I would be done spending on a particular item. So, avoiding the regret of not choosing the LR is also worth something!

Anyway, YMMV, but this is were my head is. I am close to justifying the LR, but I have no idea what I will ultimately buy!

Sounds like my thought process but realistically I realize the LR is probably unnecessary for my needs. I do think the LR will hold value better at both 5 and 10 years, but by how much no one knows. I think the 210 with degradation and future advances in range will seem short on range.