To Performance or not to performance... AWD? P? I can't decide!

[MXWing]

Hm, isn't "f you money" an amount that allows you to give your boss the finger and stop working? I think the term you are looking for is "couch money" I'm fortunate enough that paying an additional $10k isn't really an issue, but I enjoy watching money grow in my investment account almost as much as driving a fast car.

Having FU money is when you tell your boss to shove it because you don’t need their paycheck.

FU money to me is “being able to speak your mind freely in any and all situations”.

Elon is a perfect example of that. He can wage war against the SEC, British expats in Thailand, and make 420 tweets to impress his girlfriend.

Elon just needs to realize his employees and his retail shareholders might not have FU money and can’t afford black swan events being Musk himself to torpedo their holdings.

$10K can always be deployed elsewhere for better use. It’s tough to figure out the demarcation point between wise spending and living a little.

Personally, I think a good goal for that is when you are either debt free or have low enough debt at low interest that doesn’t stress your family.

 

[ulrichw]

OP - it looks like nobody took you up on the comparison to the 228i you currently drive.

I looked up the performance stats for the 2 series.

First of all, all of the Model 3 variants kick the pants off your 228i from a performance perspective.

It looks like the Model 3 RWD is roughly equivalent in performance to the M240i - the top-of-the-line "driver's" version of the 2 series.

It should be noted, however, that wringing the most out of an ICE is harder than doing the same from an EV. So while you might have a hard time reproducing published performance numbers in an ICE, doing so in an EV is generally as simple as mashing the right pedal to the floor.

You might consider test driving a RWD model, too, just to get the full spectrum of experience.

EVs are amazing from a perspective of instantly available performance. A "slow" EV feels faster than a "fast" ICE in many driving conditions.

My input is based on daily driving: a 444hp 6-speed Mustang Boss 302, a 113 hp electric VW E-golf, and a Tesla Model 3 P3D-
... and some test-driving experience in a couple RWD LR Model 3s.

 

[Jedi2155]

P3D+ owner. This is perhaps an unpopular opinion. What is more important to you? Range or looks? If range is more important, go with the AWD and add the 19" wheels. The car still looks great that way, and you maximize your driving without paying the energy tax of the performance package.

The price difference of $11,000 is probably the most significant factor for most people, so you should figure out if maybe you want to save that $11k and instead put that money toward buying a HPWC, maybe buying FSD, the 19" wheels, etc.

People fail to realize that the 19" Sports tires are indeed sports tires with a similar hit in range.

Its:

• 20" 269 miles
• 19" 276 miles
• 18" 296 miles
• 18" + aero 309 miles

For those concerned about efficiency of the 19" / 20" and aren't really road tripping, then you can always put that $11,000 towards a solar system and not worry about the cost of fuel over the next 25 years.

For example in LA we get about 2190 sun hours per year. A 5 kW array will generate 10,950 kWh in that time. For a 300 Wh/mi vehicle, that gives you 36,500 miles/year of energy.

 

[ngogas]

Alll comes down to it, flip the dang coin.

 

[NewTMSMan]

Easy answer if you can afford both:

Holding period of 3 years - AWD
5 years or more - P

Replace % with $ and you will see where I am coming from.
You outlay money/debt that carries opportunity cost. Your money/debt loss in absolute terms is larger on a higher priced car YoY.

I take an earth sharing 50% depreciation hit every year on my cell phone. It's $500 absolute dollar depreciation on a phone.. not a Bentley. The Bentley takes a "smaller" -percentage- loss than an iPhone. The Bentley takes a far larger absolute -dollar- loss than an iPhone.

If you are going to describe curves to me, you should realize the graph should have appropriately scaled X, and Y values to accurate reflect the magnitude of the curve.

My advice is to the OP was basically if you churn depreciating assets quickly, go for the cheaper point of entry.

That advice is actually incorrect as you are not considering that you need to have a car at all times and churning a depreciating asset more quickly as you advised in your original post, where the cost difference is only about 15% results in exactly the opposite cost of ownership. Punch the numbers in a model and use 5 years depreciation of a $72,500 Model 3+ and you will have a depreciation cost of $31,455, while keeping a $61,500 AWD for 3 years and then replacing it with the same car will cost you $39,440 over that same 5 year period.

Now if the comparative cost of the 2 cars were double, say comparing a $100,000 car against a $50,000 car then it is cheaper to replace the cheaper car after 3 years compared to keeping the more expensive car 5 years, but the cost difference needs to be at least 50% before they are equivalent. So if you buy a $75k car and compare that to a $50k car then keeping the $75k car for 5 years is the equivalent in depreciation losses to keeping the $50k car for 3 years and then replacing it.

 

[MXWing]

That advice is actually incorrect as you are not considering that you need to have a car at all times and churning a depreciating asset more quickly as you advised in your original post, where the cost difference is only about 15% results in exactly the opposite cost of ownership. Punch the numbers in a model and use 5 years depreciation of a $72,500 Model 3+ and you will have a depreciation cost of $31,455, while keeping a $61,500 AWD for 3 years and then replacing it with the same car will cost you $39,440 over that same 5 year period.

Now if the comparative cost of the 2 cars were double, say comparing a $100,000 car against a $50,000 car then it is cheaper to replace the cheaper car after 3 years compared to keeping the more expensive car 5 years, but the cost difference needs to be at least 50% before they are equivalent. So if you buy a $75k car and compare that to a $50k car then keeping the $75k car for 5 years is the equivalent in depreciation losses to keeping the $50k car for 3 years and then replacing it.

I don't recommend churning any vehicle. People do it however even if it unwise to do so. It hurts more to churn a pricier vehicle. However some people like to change often so they will even lease Tesla's which I think is a horrible deal. Some will tout it benefits them for tax purposes but that isn't the typical everyman scenario who can leverage a lease that way.

I think we are splitting hairs here as I am sure we both agree you lose less the longer you keep a car whether its AWD or P.

 

[MatildaModelY]

Will report back tomorrow early afternoon with my AWD vs Performance thoughts when I get back from the test drive.

 

[Jmstx79]

Will report back tomorrow early afternoon with my AWD vs Performance thoughts when I get back from the test drive.

For a modest contingency fee I’m willing to make the decision for you.

 

[rob968]

Will report back tomorrow early afternoon with my AWD vs Performance thoughts when I get back from the test drive.

Looking forward to it! As someone else mentioned, it's probably not a bad idea if you can also wrangle a RWD test drive to understand the entire scope of offerings.

 

[ChadS]

Nobody needs the performance. If the money is an issue - even if you can afford it, but just really don't want to spend the money - the AWD is an incredible car that anybody should be happy with.

That said, last night some friends were over. I had my LR RWD, one had an AWD, and one had a P3D. The one with AWD kinda wished he had upgraded, and the one with the P3D couldn't be more pleased with his car - in fact, he just got a second P3D for his SO.

I drove a Roadster for 7 years, and then a Model S P90DL for 2 years. I can say that the acceleration, while never necessary, also never got old. If the money is not an issue, you won't regret it.

I am trading in my LR RWD for a P3D.

 

[Santa Claws]

I’ve comitted to keeping the car until it falls apart so the extra expenditure up front I am ok with.

Same, but I plan on keeping it together enough so that if the timing works out, I could add it to the Tesla Shared Fleet.

 

[wbhokie]

Yeah it is a funny question. As far as "needs", an AWD can check all of the boxes. But a P model can just add that extra fun factor, so it really depends how you like to drive. I had a 90D and loved it. I have a P3D now and love how it drives even more. But I would have probably been perfectly happy with an AWD too. Those moments when you mash it though... can't stop the smile!

 

[RScottyL]

I agree that if you can afford it, you might as well go all out and get the performance version.

You don't want to regret it later if you don't!

 

[Tommy Bahama]

I absolutely love my P+. That being said, since you’re in Chicago don’t forget to budget for the tire situation. The 3P comes with summer compound sticky sport stuff. Great for performance, but you probably don’t want to be buzzing around a Chicago winter with those. I don’t want to dissuade you from a P if that’s what you decide, just be ready to shell out a few more dollars for an appropriate wheel/tire combo to handle the cold and snow/ice.

 

[hBomb]

I got the AWD after having a slightly modded BMW 335i and a 997 C4S. The AWD is faster than both of them for normal use. Anecdotally, the Germans pulled harder when you get up into "go to jail" speeds, but for normal use the AWD kicks their asses.

I sometimes wish I'd gotten the P3D, but would rather take my family on an amazing vacation than be a second faster off the line. I also bought the car as a commuter car, and am not intending to ever track it. I'm not gonna miss the track package, and am glad to have smoother riding 18" aeros with all-seasons. I will say that I've been able to break the rear end loose already when accelerating into a left turn from a stoplight, so maybe 19"s with summer rubber are in my future after I wear out my first set of all-seasons.

 

[andywv]

Just ordered the AWD. I really appreciate the perspectives from you all, it came down to P3D cost vs. the upgrades I want to complete after purchase. Even with the P3D, I want new rims, tint, de-chrome, and wrap. I'll probably end up kicking myself for not going with the P3D, but in the interim, I'm excited to customize aftermarket.

 

[daniel]

Hi guys,
Looking for some words of wisdom here and to be swayed so I can finalize my order. I took the M3P out for a test drive and was blown away.

I haven't yet taken the standard AWD/Dual motor out yet as they didn't have any available. My order is currently for standard dual motor. Especially with the new lower P price, I can afford it. But, is it worth it?

-I'm likely not going to be making it to the track too often.
-I do love the red brakes, bigger tires, and of course the extra 1.2sec 0-60 time is awesome, but will it get old fast?
-Is 4.5 still PLENTY fast? And on the highway does AWD do just as good at overtaking as the P if you're already going around 50? These are the tough questions...

Someone please make this ultimate first world problem decision for me.

Having driven a Roadster for seven years, I can say that acceleration never gets old, and I'm envious as hell of owners of the P3D. I just didn't want to wait to get in a car with EAP, so I bought early when P and D were not yet available.

OTOH, 5.1 seconds 0-60 is no slouch and is really plenty for me in real life. And that Roadster ate tires like a seal eats fish. My cost for tires will be a lot less now.

My advice to you is to skip the P. If I were buying the car now, I'd get the P and the D.

 

[MatildaModelY]

OK, I'm back from the drive and I have a few thoughts.
I am pretty sure I am going with the standard AWD version (the one I drove today)

-Acceleration is noticeably slower but it's still plenty quick for me.
-I was still very much able to jump out in front of cars and pass them with extreme ease.
-If I'm driving alone I would mash it more, but with a family I'm sure I'd get yelled at for accelerating so hard anyways, especially with the P.
-I didn't actually realize the range on the P was about 8% worse vs standard, according to the OA.
-Coming off the highway today I still managed to skid the wheels going around a quick turn - definitely was able to feel the quick turns and speed. Really no reason in my mind that I'd need to make those type of turns even faster.
-Prefer the black interior to the white
-Luckily the car overall still felt dangerous (in a good way), so I'm sold.
-I'll likely apply that cash to EAP instead when I need it. Luckily I don't have a commute at all so the benefits of highway driving + autopilot won't be needed too much by me.

 

[Gavyne]

Congrats. EAP at purchase makes more sense due to $5k and how you can space that out in 5-6 year loans. If you purchase EAP after delivery, it'll be $7k cash.

 

[Msjulie]

Leaning towards the standard AWD. These comments are all very reasonable and helps put things in perspective. Didn't think about part costs

If I had to replace mine now I'm not sure what I would do... I really like the acceleration the car provides but I elected to not get the 20"rims + stickier tires because I didn't want to compromise range or add to the curb-age potential. I did, however, put 19" OEM rims + tires on the car so it looks like any other red model 3 but is quicker..

OK, I'm back from the drive and I have a few thoughts.
I am pretty sure I am going with the standard AWD version (the one I drove today)

Now the only kind of Performance you can order is the fully decked out version so with the cost diff etc, the AWD might be quick enough for you indeed