Total braking system failure?

[Sophias_dad]

should be NON-wet, NON-icy.

I am SOOO gonna try this when we get a good snowstorm(in a wide open parking lot, at relatively low speed)

 

[brur]

I too have had a power failure in an Acura while driving. The power steering and power brakes went out. I “couldn’t” press the brakes hard enough to slow the car and in a panic jammed the transmission into reverse. Why I didn’t pull the emergency brake is anyone’s guess. Like I said, panic. After some very loud noises, the car came to a stop. Honda/Acura agreed that the primary electrical fault was the issue and there was a recall on the car for that problem. They covered the repairs. Three transmissions later, it was finally running again (at no cost to me).

Anyway, my point is, that experience taught me that unpowered power brakes are different from non-power brakes. I am old enough that my first few cars did not have power brakes. I know how to stop a car with non-power brakes. Lots of dainty ladies could do it very effectively back then. It required effort, but not the same rock hard impossible feeling effort needed for a failed power brake system. I believe the mechanics are different. Power brakes are not simply a powered non-power brake system. While you can mechanically press them, the leverages are very different. They are not engineered to be easily functional without power, as the old non-powered systems were.

So maybe let’s stop trying to shame the OP for not being familiar with old style brakes. That’s just silly, and not productive.

great point.
using brakes that are not assisted makes you think the seatback is going to break.

 

[M109Rider]

Yes - I'm sure there are plenty of haters and short sellers out there etc. But the majority of the empathetic responses come from folks who hope/expect their $50,000 or $60,000 Model 3 won't leave them in a lurch. I am the 2nd owner of my Model S - but I still shake my head when I see the original $130,000 window sticker. No way on god's green earth does the car represent that original cost. (And the depreciation is frightening.) In most cases, those who you consider "haters" are current owners who have possibly had issues with their cars and are wanting to know if they're the only ones experiencing that particular problem. The owner of the Model 3 who started this thread had a highly unusual and scary incident. So don't hop on the Elon love-train just yet.

That’s not correct. I don’t consider current owners who have had issues haters. I consider those owners people that have had issues. I also disagree that the car wasn’t worth $130k when you bought. New tech, new company. Cars that are half the Model S, are still more money. If you feel otherwise that’s all good.
I consider haters, haters though. If someone is trying to stain Tesla, or “get back at Tesla” like “CertLive”, simply because they feel Tesla owes them somehow, I fully disagree, and really don’t like seeing a company like Tesla hurt by these personal vindictive haters.
They’re easy to spot here. They say they don’t hate, but they spend their time on the forum attacking at every opportunity.
You’re new here. You don’t know CertLive do you ?
I hope you’re not another hater trying to get back at Tesla for a purchase you willingly made years ago. ...

 

[Casmium]

Having driven in the time before power brakes became a standard, I do remember the pressure needed to operate them. Under normal driving conditions in a regular car (not having regen) if one expects the feel of power brakes and tries to apply the brakes during a booster failure, it will definitely seem like the brake pedal is locked.

However, in a panic situation like the OP described, I would expect that adrenaline would kick in and one would be stomping on the brake hard enough to overcome the lack of boost.

I would be very interested in the outcome of the service visit. We know that there's a servo on the brake pedal. I'm wondering if there could be an issue with the servo. Again, just wondering....

Some shorter people do sit back far enough that they could never press the brake pedal hard enough if needed once the power is out, since the electronic assist lets you just gently tap it with your toe.

 

[Sam1]

it's a shame (some) cars don't still have the pull lever between the seats or the e/pedal. Guess the ol' cable notion is a by-gone era.
.

Couple of cars are actually implementing brake by wire now, so the entire brake system is electric.

 

[Madtinkerer]

Couple of cars are actually implementing brake by wire now, so the entire brake system is electric.

Mercedes used a brake by wire system close to 20years ago. It was called sensotronic brake control and was used in the R230 SL chassis as well as the W211 E class and W219 CLS vehicles. It was also used on the SLR and Maybach models. Like any brake system, it has a fail safe that if the pump failed it still has a physical connection from the brake pedal to the master cylinder. When that system fails it takes all of your strength to push the pedal hard enough to stop the vehicle.

 

[Stratman]

Couple of cars are actually implementing brake by wire now, so the entire brake system is electric.

I wouldn't worry too much about cable-less or only electric throttle / brake systems. I mean, how many modern jets still have mechanical cables to going to rudders etc?

 

[E_R_N]

OP should have instead made a thread "all these strange errors, what do I do" and everyone would have come back with the usual "hold the buttons on the steering wheel and try it, you might need a new 12v battery". Cant believe the roasting he got from some people when the standard procedure for every glitch is reset it and try again.
I agree it was probably a loss of boost and the pedal was harder than expected but if I was him, I wouldnt come back anymore either to report.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I wouldn't worry too much about cable-less or only electric throttle / brake systems. I mean, how many modern jets still have mechanical cables to going to rudders etc?

I would worry about it since there's only one 12V system in the car! haha.
I remember Infiniti had a steer-by-wire system in some of their cars for inexplicable reasons. It didn't work out well. Mercedes also tried a brake-by-wire system, that also didn't turn out well.
Infiniti recalls Q50 sedans over steer-by-wire system
Infiniti Q50 steer-by-wire glitch prompts global recall
Mercedes-Benz Recalls 680,000 Cars for Sensotronic Braking System | Car News | Auto123

 

[Sam1]

I wouldn't worry too much about cable-less or only electric throttle / brake systems. I mean, how many modern jets still have mechanical cables to going to rudders etc?

Oh I'm not too concerned about it. Besides, the cars' emergency brake system will be seperate, and I'll read the manual to know how to enable it in case of emergency.

 

[Santa Claws]

Soooo... not a _total_ braking system failure. Got it! Love it when people max their complaints to the highest level first.

Tesla's e-brake is the P on the stalk. Hold down P to come to an emergency stop.

Doubt we'll hear a follow-up on what the real issue was... Chalk this one up to a likely power booster malfunction followed by user error.

Read the manual, people

 

[Stellavator]

I wouldn't worry too much about cable-less or only electric throttle / brake systems. I mean, how many modern jets still have mechanical cables to going to rudders etc?

True, but they do have double redundancy hydraulic systems.

 

[LAllen]

Maybe they weren't comfortable sharing till they heard others have had similar concerns. Some owners might not share because they're afraid of getting the Inspector Clouseau treatment from folks like yourself...

Exactly, thank you. This has been a difficult issue to know how to deal with, given the service centre's repeated advice that what we experienced was not possible - "there are massive calipers and hydraulic system - etc. etc." - it "must have been slippy out, or it was the ABS that engaged, or...or" - none of which was the case. Have a nice day.

 

[Phleabag]

My first real car was a 1967 stick shift Mustang with manual brakes. You learn a lot about physics (momentum and dynamics). It was my left leg (clutch) that grew the most.

In my collection I have a 1974 Lotus Europa that originally had power brakes. The system was over complicated and poorly designed. I removed the entire system and it now has manual brakes. Although it requires more pedal effort but there is much better pedal feel/feedback/modulation. Power brakes rarely have enough feedback to drive fast properly. Hence the F1 reference above.

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

That’s not correct. I don’t consider current owners who have had issues haters. I consider those owners people that have had issues. I also disagree that the car wasn’t worth $130k when you bought. New tech, new company. Cars that are half the Model S, are still more money. If you feel otherwise that’s all good.
I consider haters, haters though. If someone is trying to stain Tesla, or “get back at Tesla” like “CertLive”, simply because they feel Tesla owes them somehow, I fully disagree, and really don’t like seeing a company like Tesla hurt by these personal vindictive haters.
They’re easy to spot here. They say they don’t hate, but they spend their time on the forum attacking at every opportunity.
You’re new here. You don’t know CertLive do you ?
I hope you’re not another hater trying to get back at Tesla for a purchase you willingly made years ago. ...

What is CERTLive ? I can't even find a straight-ahead explanation when googling it. And as for being a hater... no... I used to love my Tesla... and am now gritting my teeth since the reliability roosters are coming home to roost. I still don't hate the darn thing. I do wish its manufacturer cared more about its product and its customers. But I don't own a piece of the company, so I can't tell the company what to do.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Any updates from the OP?

We await word on what actually transpired here.

Thx.

 

[TonyT]

So, who's going to go out and unplug the the iBooster and see how much pedal force it takes to stop the car? I'm curious!
Older non-powered brake systems were nearly all drum brakes which require less force than disc brakes.

It takes a lot of force. I didn't measure it, but when I was doing a conversion I had to move the car before the conversion was completed. a LOT of pressure was needed, I was basically standing on the pedal for a low speed stop, basically move from 1 spot to the one next to it and not much speed was used.
Basically "locked feeling"

 

[rijc99]

It takes a lot of force. I didn't measure it, but when I was doing a conversion I had to move the car before the conversion was completed. a LOT of pressure was needed, I was basically standing on the pedal for a low speed stop, basically move from 1 spot to the one next to it and not much speed was used.
Basically "locked feeling"

Doesn't bode well for those that experience a booster fail while on the street. I was hoping it would be closer to ICE vehicles.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Yes, it will take a lot of force, but that is not "total brake failure" as this is often called.
Total brake failure is when the pedal goes to floor with no resistance and there's no braking. Usually caused by a hydraulic failure but also very uncommon due to the way brake systems are designed. i.e. one brake pipe splitting won't cause a total failure.

 

[TonyT]

Doesn't bode well for those that experience a booster fail while on the street. I was hoping it would be closer to ICE vehicles.

I've had ice cars with a failed brake booster and it also takes a lot of force. Cars without power brakes to begin with are setup very differently. The parking/emergency brake should also be available to help in the situation.