Tracking P85D delivery thread

[tcampos]

OK, so, I did the return trip. Same conditions. Wind was pretty much nil. Hit some rain on the last 3rd of the leg but it didn't seem to affect power usage.

464 Wh/mi over 36.4 miles. Temp was 44F. Usage in neutral was nearly nothing according to the power usage bar.

Round trip was 76.6 miles, 36.7 kWh, 479 Wh/mi. Left with 188 rated miles. Arrived back with 70. So, 118 rated miles for 76 miles.

Since I left Devon, 150.7 miles. 66.4 kWh, 441 Wh/mi.

Now, I've made this same trip in my P85 dozens of times. Even when I was flying (90+... shhh) I barely was over 400Wh/mi.

As you can see from my graph, the road is mostly flat. I had the cruise control set the entire time at 78 MPH until I hit the off ramp. The little dip and spike near the beginning was an EzPass Express toll I slowed down to 60 for, then resumed cruise.

Suffice it to say I am so far disappointed with this purported improved AWD efficiency.

There's an interesting discussion on range in another thread here: First SF-Tahoe trip in P85D - Page 6

Long story short, MarcG posted some data on a Tahoe trip which showed some of his real world range. Since he didn't post it, I tried to reverse his Wh/m and got something in the range of 450 Wh/m which is consistent with yours - though another Tesla owner pointed out that perhaps the way I did it was flawed.

My own experience with my D has been that range is averaging 395 so far vs 350 which I used to get on my old 85, and I have not really pushed the car yet - so it will likely get worse. Tomorrow I'll be putting about 100 miles on it on the freeway so I'll get a better feel.

While the actual energy efficiency that people are getting may vary, what seems consistent is how it compares to non-D cars. I have yet to see anyone who has posted anything on range that suggests range is better.

For me, this is more than a bit disappointing - it was articles like this that encouraged me to buy the car - OFFICIAL: Tesla Model S Dual Motor (D) Unveiled -- 3.2 Second 0-60 Time, Longer Range. Autonomous Driving Hardware Now Standard

All of this was based on the D rollout on October 9 - where the direct claim was made that "the acceleration is better, the top speed is higher, [....], and the efficiency/range increases" - (see: Tesla Unveils Dual Motor and Autopilot - YouTube)

I do hope that this has something to do with a fact not yet communicated - like more of the battery has been reserved for backup capacity or perhaps that the software is just not ready yet to make things more efficient.

 

[anxman]

There's an interesting discussion on range in another thread here: First SF-Tahoe trip in P85D - Page 6

Long story short, MarcG posted some data on a Tahoe trip which showed some of his real world range. Since he didn't post it, I tried to reverse his Wh/m and got something in the range of 450 Wh/m which is consistent with yours - though another Tesla owner pointed out that perhaps the way I did it was flawed.

My own experience with my D has been that range is averaging 395 so far vs 350 which I used to get on my old 85, and I have not really pushed the car yet - so it will likely get worse. Tomorrow I'll be putting about 100 miles on it on the freeway so I'll get a better feel.

While the actual energy efficiency that people are getting may vary, what seems consistent is how it compares to non-D cars. I have yet to see anyone who has posted anything on range that suggests range is better.

For me, this is more than a bit disappointing - it was articles like this that encouraged me to buy the car - OFFICIAL: Tesla Model S Dual Motor (D) Unveiled -- 3.2 Second 0-60 Time, Longer Range. Autonomous Driving Hardware Now Standard

All of this was based on the D rollout on October 9 - where the direct claim was made that "the acceleration is better, the top speed is higher, [....], and the efficiency/range increases" - (see: Tesla Unveils Dual Motor and Autopilot - YouTube)

I do hope that this has something to do with a fact not yet communicated - like more of the battery has been reserved for backup capacity or perhaps that the software is just not ready yet to make things more efficient.

I have faith that this is improvable through software and the next few updates will make most of us very happy.

 

[skilly]

Hoping that this is at least in line with the current topic within the thread - The mileage rating drops between the 19" and 21" but to be sure, is that due to weight? The contact surface is very close to the same, so its the only thing that I could link to the measurable decrease. And, if that is the case, the cast stock wheels are quite heavy - could one offset mileage positively in the same respect by opting for a 1 piece aluminum wheel - you could probably expect a haircut in wheel/tire weight as much as 25% to 30%.

I have a set of 21" ADV wheels coming in about a week and I have the 19" wheel set (which I believe will also be heavier). Happy to do a largely unscientific experiment. If someone has the physics figured out already, that might save me some time

 

[evboost]

I have faith that this is improvable through software and the next few updates will make most of us very happy.

I too believe this amounts to beta grade control software at this point. I don't see why a P85D (or 85D when they're out) shouldn't be able to more effectively throttle down the insanity for range mode highway cruising.

 

[skilly]

I agree - especially at freeway speed. The car has very little drag. It seems logical that they could reduce or eliminate power (or make it variable at least) to one of the motors during those times that it isnt needed in favor of conservation.

 

[jp97070]

Picked up my car today! After being taken off the truck Friday for a Saturday delivery (was told that the trucks hold a certain number of S cars but that calculation was not made for heavier dual motor Ds).
Summary: ordered P85 in mid-September, switched to P85D 10/14, went into production 12/10, finished production 12/16, delivery 12/22 in Portland. No next gen seats front or back. No heated steering wheel even though I do have the winter package. The car is fabulous! I really like the black upper in the car. I have not been able to adequately test it due to traffic -- and hosting our 21st annual cookie exchange I had to get home! Hoping for dry weather tomorrow to test it out and then get some paint protection. Happy Holidays!!

 

[Andyw2100]

I too believe this amounts to beta grade control software at this point. I don't see why a P85D (or 85D when they're out) shouldn't be able to more effectively throttle down the insanity for range mode highway cruising.

But wouldn't it be this software that was used for the EPA testing that achieved the improved highway MPGe that is on the window stickers?

 

[breser]

I found this article interesting, especially page#3 where the new EPA mileage numbers are discussed http://www.greencarreports.com/news...t-drive-of-all-electric-awd-performance-sedan

There is no such procedure no matter how many times people say this. We found the exact test procedure over in the range thread. It says the car should be charged to 100% or if there are selectable levels the one that is most likely to be used. It says nothing about how to determine that.

The EPA made Nissan average between two levels (80% and 100%) since they had no idea which one most people would use, thus everyone assumes you have to shave 10% off the battery charge. Tesla switched to a slider to make averaging the highest and lowest setting utterly pointless. If the EPA made Tesla average the highest and lowest you'd have to do the range based off roughly a 50% charge. Nissan has since removed the optional setting for charging entirely to avoid this issue. As far as I know every electric vehicle on the market has had range based on a 100% charge except for the 2013 Nissan LEAF.

If the charge was based on a 90% charge then you'd expect that range to show at a 90% charge on the battery. But 242 is what shows on the 100% charge.

All in all it's a bit disappointing to see excuses that have been thoroughly researched and proven wrong to still be given. But it seems some people (not directed at AIMc) really want to give Tesla an excuse on this disappointing range number.

I still need to dig into the math to understand how the range is calculated so I can understand if the city efficiency being less can explain the range decrease alone. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow. But this is getting rather offtopic and we have a thread to discuss the range issues (several of them in fact). So I'm not sure why we're talking about this here.

 

[spentan]

Just paid for mine via ACH/MyTesla.

Still in production, I'm wondering if there is any way they can increase efficiency and maybe even performance with a firmware update.

Ultimately, its the way in which the motors distribute the load that will determine the most efficient course of action (wrt power delivery), and I think that it could and will be tweaked in the future.

 

[David_Cary]

Is it possible the brand new tires on the P85D are responsible for some or all of the increased energy usage?

My thoughts exactly. At 5% compared to worn 21s, I think new tires could do that. Unfortunately, for all the forum testing here for the next month or two, this is going to be an issue. I still think there is an issue since the P85D should be more efficient (at constant speed) and it seems doubtful that the new tires could hit the range 8%.

 

[darthy001]

I don't think that is fair at all. The page for the P85D showed "285 miles" for a while, and the 85D showed "295 miles" indicating the P85D was only 3-4% less efficient than the 85D, which was 11% more efficient than the P85/85... which still lands the P85D as more efficient. At no time up until the EPA numbers were published (which was months after I ordered) was there any indication the P85D was less efficient.

Norwegian design studio still shows 460km at 105kph for the P85D and thats 1:1 with 285miles at 65mph. So tesla keeps claiming these numbers in non-EPA countries.

Beginning to get worried here i do have to admit, but hope that staggered 21"-rims, new tires, wrong pressure, etc etc plays a role here.

For me the most interesting part would be 19" winter tires as that is where the range is mostly an issue. I will get by with the 21" summer tires no problem. Winter-range doesnt really have any range to give away, and I bought this car based on the "more efficient"-statement by Elon at the d-event. In my world he was clearly referring to the p85d when saying those infamous words of more performance, more speed and more effeciency

 

[sandpiper]

Norwegian design studio still shows 460km at 105kph for the P85D and thats 1:1 with 285miles at 65mph. So tesla keeps claiming these numbers in non-EPA countries.

Beginning to get worried here i do have to admit, but hope that staggered 21"-rims, new tires, wrong pressure, etc etc plays a role here.

For me the most interesting part would be 19" winter tires as that is where the range is mostly an issue. I will get by with the 21" summer tires no problem. Winter-range doesnt really have any range to give away, and I bought this car based on the "more efficient"-statement by Elon at the d-event. In my world he was clearly referring to the p85d when saying those infamous words of more performance, more speed and more effeciency

same here. With reduced range the car becomes almost unusable to me. I'm debating about cancelling, much as I hate the idea.

 

[wk057]

100% Charged. 243 rated miles. Trip begins momentarily.

 

[stevezzzz]

My P85D went Production Complete overnight! VIN 66654. Gonna be tight for a 12/29 delivery in Denver, though...

 

[jmmcalpin]

Picked up my P85D today!
View attachment 66814


I still have my old 2013 P85, so I did a controlled 15 mile loop back-to-back to compare efficiency.

Same route, same time of day, same speeds, mostly 65 mph, same temperature. Only differences should be tires (21" Continentals on the P85, 21" staggered Michelins on the P85D) and the dual motor itself. Note, there is considerable elevation gain (and loss) in this loop, hence the higher than normal averages across the board.

Here are the results:

P85, 21" Continentals, 50F, 15.5 mile loop (65mph)
5.1kWh used for an average of 329Wh/mi
View attachment 66815


P85D, 21" Michelins, 50F, same 15.5 mile loop (65mph)
5.4kWh used for an average of 350Wh/mi
View attachment 66816

So, in this test the P85D used 6% more energy.

I think it's fair to say that when Elon said the dual motor increased range, he was referring to the standard 85D.

"Early Adopter" do you know what the total range of the P85D would be given your calculation? I was assuming we would get approximatley the 265 miles per charge that previous P85s were supposed to get.. Am I close?

John

 

[bonaire]

Part of the range loss comes with added weight of the front motor gear. Overcoming weight drag is as important as overcoming aerodynamic drag. The way to so highway cruising is to disable draw by the larger rear motor. It might be something software could do.

 

[3s-a-charm]

My P85D went Production Complete overnight! VIN 66654. Gonna be tight for a 12/29 delivery in Denver, though...

Nice, stevezzzz!

I'm still "in production" with a delivery of Dec 28/29 in Calgary - talk about cutting it close for these December deliveries! Making us sweat but I'm sure the folks at Tesla are also pretty stressed this holiday season.

 

[stevezzzz]

There are at least two other threads attempting to collect P85D range data, the more promising of which is:

P85D range and highway battery performance - Page 2

Let's take the range discussions over there and get back OT. @Mods: time to consolidate?

 

[Boeing777]

Yes, there is something of a "grey hole" open now due to shipping capacity constraints. No doubt exacerbated by the upcoming holiday. Per my DS this morning, my car is still sitting in Fremont looking for a truck (production completed last Thurs 12/18). There are 5-6 Florida cars in the spreadsheet in the same status ... so its not a lack of cars to "fill the truck." Hopefully it clears quickly ... DS is still stoically holding to a 2014 delivery date. Hope he is right !

Tampa has called me to confirm our delivery on the 27th. We're flying in to Tampa (not trading in a car), staying overnight in a hotel and Tesla is sending a "town car" to pick us up for the delivery. Although others have had their share of missed expectations, we confirmed our order on 12/5, and will be driving our specially ordered supercar home 3 weeks after ordering. That is truly astonishing. No, we're not famous, or connected to Tesla. And, we're not previous Tesla owners. Silver spoon? Perhaps...Well done TM!

 

[WarrenInCA]

Tampa has called me to confirm our delivery on the 27th. We're flying in to Tampa (not trading in a car), staying overnight in a hotel and Tesla is sending a "town car" to pick us up for the delivery. Although others have had their share of missed expectations, we confirmed our order on 12/5, and will be driving our specially ordered supercar home 3 weeks after ordering. That is truly astonishing. No, we're not famous, or connected to Tesla. And, we're not previous Tesla owners. Silver spoon? Perhaps...Well done TM!

A case of good timing. Sometimes things just work out perfectly. Don't question it, just go with it and ENJOY!