Tracking P85D Next Generation Seats Delivery Thread

[dennis]

Without accepting your premise that my English is better than yours, below are the issues I had with the e-mail, in the order they occurred. Some are minor, stylistic things, and some are more significant. I'll list them all, with explanations.

"In short, it is taking much longer than expected and we plan on installing the seats in your car by the end of May at the latest, although hopefully earlier than this. "

hopefully is not used correctly. It should have been written something like "although we hope it will be earlier than this." (This was a really minor issue. I wouldn't have criticized the e-mail message if this had been the only issue.)


"We were overwhelmed by the high demand for P85D in general, and specifically for the next gen seats."

I think this should read "for the P85D" or "for P85Ds" or something else. Again, this is not one of the larger issues.


"The lead times from many of our suppliers have doubled due to the port situation and that have prevented us from both giving you an accurate lead time to change, and allowing us to start building your new seat."

OK, here we go. For starters it definitely needs to be "that has prevented us..." not "that have prevented us..." And what does "giving you an accurate lead time to change" mean? Also in this sentence, no one is getting just one seat. Everyone is getting either two front seats, or three back seats, or both. The last word in the sentence should be "seats."


"We now have line of sight and we are planning to have built and replaced your seat by end of May at the latest (unless we have a complete shutdown of the ports which remains, unfortunately, a possibility)."

Line of sight? That's not a common term the way it's being used, and while I guess the intended meaning can be figured out from the context, it's a poor choice of words. The second "we" in that sentence is unnecessary and awkward. Built and replaced is also an awkward way to say that. The seat can't be replaced without being built first. And again, seat should be seats. Also it should be "by the end of May..." not "by end of May..." The period in that sentence should be inside the close parentheses symbol.

I would never critique a personal e-mail from Jerome this way. But Jerome has a staff. An e-mail like this one had to have staff involved. I could be wrong, but I believe English is not Jerome's first language. (I would never be able to tell that from reading any of the e-mail messages I've received from him personally.) So I don't fault Jerome for this at all. Before this e-mail was sent, someone from the communications department should have taken a look at it and edited it. And if someone from the communications department was not available to do it, then someone on Jerome's staff should have. I'll state again that I have to believe this was some sort of mistake the slipped out without being proofread. I don't recall seeing any other communications with these kinds of errors from Tesla.

Give me a break. You and many others here criticize Tesla vehemently for not communicating. Then when Tesla's best communicator and customer advocate sends a factual message to affected customers, you nit-pick the grammer and justify it by postulating someone from his staff should have reviewed and edited it. Exactly which fact that he communicated to customers was unclear to you? Did "have" instead of "has" confuse the meaning to you?

I'm looking forward to reading your future posts. Better proofread carefully before hitting Submit.:tongue:

 

[Andyw2100]

Give me a break. You and many others here criticize Tesla vehemently for not communicating. Then when Tesla's best communicator and customer advocate sends a factual message to affected customers, you nit-pick the grammer and justify it by postulating someone from his staff should have reviewed and edited it. Exactly which fact that he communicated to customers was unclear to you? Did "have" instead of "has" confuse the meaning to you?

I'm looking forward to reading your future posts. Better proofread carefully before hitting Submit.:tongue:

Actually I'm not going to give you a break.

My first post on the topic was this:

My sentiments are as follows:

1) Somewhat annoyed at the length of time I will be without the Next Generation seats.
2) Somewhat pleased that at least Tesla is making an effort to communicate about the situation. (Perhaps they are learning.)
3) Somewhat disappointed that a mass email of such importance, clearly with involvement from staff other than just Jerome, could be sent with typos, grammatical errors, and writing that was not clear at all. I've got to think Jerome expected someone to proof and possibly even clean up his first draft, and instead someone just hit "send" on the thing. Tesla can do better.

In that post I basically commended Tesla for communicating about the issue. I didn't nit-pick the grammar in that message, but merely pointed out that it was a sloppily written message. I was careful to point out that I don't fault Jerome for it. It's not a question of whether or not the message could be understood. It's a question of professionalism. That e-mail, sent with the mistakes it included, was unprofessional, and did not reflect well on Tesla. I don't think you'd find mistakes like that in any of their investor reports.

Finally I only picked the e-mail apart when asked to. I know you didn't miss that, because you commented on the post in which I was asked what mistakes I found.

As for finding mistakes in my future posts, go for it. In fact, go for it on my previous posts too. I take pride in my writing. That's not to say I never make mistakes, especially when writing and posting quickly. You'll find many of my posts here edited, often because I find typos, or don't like the way I worded something. But I try to write well, even when it's just informally, in an online discussion forum. You can be damn sure that if I were writing formal business correspondence, representing a company like Tesla, I would proofread my message quite carefully.

 

[dennis]

Actually I'm not going to give you a break.

In that post I basically commended Tesla for communicating about the issue. I didn't nit-pick the grammar in that message, but merely pointed out that it was a sloppily written message. I was careful to point out that I don't fault Jerome for it. It's not a question of whether or not the message could be understood. It's a question of professionalism. That e-mail, sent with the mistakes it included, was unprofessional, and did not reflect well on Tesla. I don't think you'd find mistakes like that in any of their investor reports.

Finally I only picked the e-mail apart when asked to. I know you didn't miss that, because you commented on the post in which I was asked what mistakes I found.

As for finding mistakes in my future posts, go for it. In fact, go for it on my previous posts too. I take pride in my writing. That's not to say I never make mistakes, especially when writing and posting quickly. You'll find many of my posts here edited, often because I find typos, or don't like the way I worded something. But I try to write well, even when it's just informally, in an online discussion forum. You can be damn sure that if I were writing formal business correspondence, representing a company like Tesla, I would proofread my message quite carefully.

When you are trying to disrupt a $750B industry nitpicking grammar in an email is not the highest priority. Mary Barra has time for her legions to micro-scrub every communication about faulty ignition switches. Tesla doesn't have the luxury of time.

Jerome's message communicated the facts clearly. The grammar is more than acceptable for a non-native speaker of English. Personally, I'm glad that Jerome and his staff are spending time working on the next issue on behalf of customers rather than wordsmithing an already clear communication. You feel otherwise, so we disagree.

 

[Andyw2100]

When you are trying to disrupt a $750B industry nitpicking grammar in an email is not the highest priority. Mary Barra has time for her legions to micro-scrub every communication about faulty ignition switches. Tesla doesn't have the luxury of time.

Well, perhaps Tesla needs to make a little more time--a little more time so that their communications match the professionalism of the company and a little more time so that their software doesn't make their cars lose power without warning, leaving people stranded in the road on blind curves.

Maybe it was the timing of the letter, its sloppiness, and what it represented that bothered me.

On a day when many P85D drivers were still worried about the most recent firmware update leaving them stranded, and having to change their preferred driving mode because of it due to a mistake or mistakes that slipped through in that firmware release, many of those same P85D drivers received an e-mail message from one of the top executives in the company that demonstrated a similar lack of attention to detail. I want the company that is going to program my car's autopilot to strive for perfection in everything they do, including the smallest of details. I want them to take the time and to make the time. If they've set deadlines they can't meet, they should hire more people. If they can't find qualified people, they should offer to pay higher salaries.

What they should not do is release software that could get people killed. And they should not send out email messages with mistakes an elementary school student could catch. I don't think that's asking too much.

 

[pmppk]

The poor grammar in the email is certainly forgivable. The use of the constrained supply of seats to fulfill new P85D orders instead of orders that have already been paid for and delivered, is not.

Like many others, I'm paying interest on these seats even though I don't have them yet. And Tesla would rather delay their fulfillment of their obligations to existing customers, than project a later delivery date for new P85D orders.

If we are to believe what we're told, there are plenty of orders for vehicles without next-gen seats that the factory could be building instead.

 

[REBroker]

I love this group, with our collective criticism, Tesla is going to be one super fine company in half the time it would take a competitor with more forgiving customers. If I were criticized like this for my horrible English (It is my second language), I would've probably enrolled in a grammar class by now. By criticizing, we're just trying to make them better. I love the communication improvement, but please, get the message proof read next time.

 

[sandpiper]

When you are trying to disrupt a $750B industry nitpicking grammar in an email is not the highest priority. Mary Barra has time for her legions to micro-scrub every communication about faulty ignition switches. Tesla doesn't have the luxury of time.

Jerome's message communicated the facts clearly. The grammar is more than acceptable for a non-native speaker of English. Personally, I'm glad that Jerome and his staff are spending time working on the next issue on behalf of customers rather than wordsmithing an already clear communication. You feel otherwise, so we disagree.

+1! Me happy more communicate even english if none gud!

- - - Updated - - -

I just received the same email. I thought it was because I wrote last week asking for an update but maybe it's just a general email to everyone waiting.

I'm pretty let down with the response. That possibly six months of no next-gen seats but still paying for them in my lease payments.

Actually I don't mind. It's something interesting to look forward to in the spring!

 

[3s-a-charm]

If you read the email with a slight French-Canadian accent then it reads a lot better.

Again, I feel that Tesla in an effort to communicate is setting expectations which (in many recent cases) leads to angry customers when they don't meet the deadlines they impose on themselves. At least this time he put a disclaimer on the deadline.

My only beef with "Seat-gate" is that while I understand the initial delays in seats, why were the early adopters the only ones who have to wait for their cars due to the delays in seats? They are clearly pumping out P85Ds with new seats... send us our seats and delay those for a bit. The tolerance level of early adopters is clearly much higher than others. Although I LOVE my car... it's a good thing for Tesla that there isn't really any competition in this segment.

 

[MarcG]

My only beef with "Seat-gate" is that while I understand the initial delays in seats, why were the early adopters the only ones who have to wait for their cars due to the delays in seats? They are clearly pumping out P85Ds with new seats... send us our seats and delay those for a bit. The tolerance level of early adopters is clearly much higher than others. Although I LOVE my car... it's a good thing for Tesla that there isn't really any competition in this segment.

For those of you early P85D adopters who have yet to get their next-gen seats and are annoyed newer orders are getting theirs, I urge you to write back to Jerome expressing your discontent (please make sure his email address, [email protected] is in the To: list, else a simple reply to the email he sent will go to someone else).

i wrote him back within an hour of receiving the email but have yet to get a response. The more attention this gets the more likely we are to get any action done. Thanks!

 

[Andyw2100]

The poor grammar in the email is certainly forgivable. The use of the constrained supply of seats to fulfill new P85D orders instead of orders that have already been paid for and delivered, is not.

Like many others, I'm paying interest on these seats even though I don't have them yet. And Tesla would rather delay their fulfillment of their obligations to existing customers, than project a later delivery date for new P85D orders.

If we are to believe what we're told, there are plenty of orders for vehicles without next-gen seats that the factory could be building instead.

My only beef with "Seat-gate" is that while I understand the initial delays in seats, why were the early adopters the only ones who have to wait for their cars due to the delays in seats? They are clearly pumping out P85Ds with new seats... send us our seats and delay those for a bit. The tolerance level of early adopters is clearly much higher than others.

Tesla is making a dollars and cents business decision by choosing to continue building the high profit margin P85D that requires the Next Generation seats that are in limited supply, and choosing to build those cars completely instead of completing ours and making some of those customers wait to have their new cars completed. Choosing not to build P85Ds, and build other models instead would cost Tesla in the form of lost profit and possibly lost customers who would not be happy waiting longer for the company's top of the line model. Building any of those cars with older seats and having to swap them in the way they are swapping in ours makes no sense as that just increases the cost on those cars, without decreasing cost anywhere.

So at this point Tesla is making the right decision for their bottom line, but they are doing so at the expense of the early adopters. So in my opinion, because of that, and because this is dragging on much longer than Tesla expected it to, and because we are being inconvenienced much longer than Tesla expected us to be, Tesla should so something to compensate us for that. They say that much of the reason we don't have our seats yet is beyond their control, but they are choosing to deliver the seats being made now to the new customers over us. That is within their control. They should also choose to do something for us to make up for it, since that is also within their control.

I'm not asking for thousands of dollars back or anything along those lines. But perhaps some sort of a reasonably substantial credit in the accessories store, or some sort of extension of our warranties--I'm really not sure what would be right. I trust Tesla can come up with something significant that would take the edge off of this and make us all feel a little better about the fact that we're still driving around with seats that need to be replaced while new P85D owners are enjoying the excellent Next Generation seats we're all anxiously waiting for.

For those of you early P85D adopters who have yet to get their next-gen seats and are annoyed newer orders are getting theirs, I urge you to write back to Jerome expressing your discontent (please make sure his email address, [email protected] is in the To: list, else a simple reply to the email he sent will go to someone else).

i wrote him back within an hour of receiving the email but have yet to get a response. The more attention this gets the more likely we are to get any action done. Thanks!

If you do decide to write to Jerome, you may want to suggest doing something for those of us who are being forced to wait for the seats. Asking Tesla to build new P85Ds with old seats isn't going to get us anywhere. They're not going to do it, because of the costs involved. Asking them to do something for us, though, is a reasonable request, and something Tesla could easily do.

 

[RobinF]

Tesla is making a dollars and cents business decision by choosing to continue building the high profit margin P85D that requires the Next Generation seats that are in limited supply, and choosing to build those cars completely instead of completing ours and making some of those customers wait to have their new cars completed. Choosing not to build P85Ds, and build other models instead would cost Tesla in the form of lost profit and possibly lost customers who would not be happy waiting longer for the company's top of the line model. Building any of those cars with older seats and having to swap them in the way they are swapping in ours makes no sense as that just increases the cost on those cars, without decreasing cost anywhere.
..........
If you do decide to write to Jerome, you may want to suggest doing something for those of us who are being forced to wait for the seats. Asking Tesla to build new P85Ds with old seats isn't going to get us anywhere. They're not going to do it, because of the costs involved. Asking them to do something for us, though, is a reasonable request, and something Tesla could easily do.

Agree completely. Tesla has no choice really. They are not going to stop the assembly line just because of seats. And the longshoremen strike just makes everything longer for us with seats waiting to be replaced but it's not that big a deal. I do agree although that it is a big enough deal to provide some compensation to us with long term due bills.

 

[sandpiper]

So at this point Tesla is making the right decision for their bottom line, but they are doing so at the expense of the early adopters. So in my opinion, because of that, and because this is dragging on much longer than Tesla expected it to, and because we are being inconvenienced much longer than Tesla expected us to be, Tesla should so something to compensate us for that. They say that much of the reason we don't have our seats yet is beyond their control, but they are choosing to deliver the seats being made now to the new customers over us. That is within their control. They should also choose to do something for us to make up for it, since that is also within their control.

I'm not asking for thousands of dollars back or anything along those lines. But perhaps some sort of a reasonably substantial credit in the accessories store, or some sort of extension of our warranties--I'm really not sure what would be right. I trust Tesla can come up with something significant that would take the edge off of this and make us all feel a little better about the fact that we're still driving around with seats that need to be replaced while new P85D owners are enjoying the excellent Next Generation seats we're all anxiously waiting for.

I'd support this.

 

[pmppk]

Agree completely. Tesla has no choice really. They are not going to stop the assembly line just because of seats. And the longshoremen strike just makes everything longer for us with seats waiting to be replaced but it's not that big a deal. I do agree although that it is a big enough deal to provide some compensation to us with long term due bills.

They have a clear choice. Using the supply of next gen seats to fulfill their obligations to customers who have already paid for them does not mean stopping the assembly line. It means delaying some new P85D production and building other configurations instead.
Yes, this means building cars with lower profit margins, which is most likely why they are not doing it. But, they do have the choice and they are choosing to prioritize new customers over ones who have already given them their money.

 

[Andyw2100]

But, they do have the choice and they are choosing to prioritize new customers over ones who have already given them their money.

Which I understand, because it is the smart business decision. Why upset a second set of customers? Better to just let the first set of upset customers become a little more upset.

My point is that what Tesla should do, to offset our becoming more upset, and to make up for it somewhat, is to compensate us in some way. I fully understand that right now it does not make good business sense for Tesla to give me my seat and not give someone else about to get their P85D theirs (or to not build someone else's P85D.) Fine. So give me something else, while I wait, to make up for it.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

When my wife took delivery of her BMW X3 (factory order) the stitching on the leather seats was messed up. Folds that were supposed to be stitched in were instead stitched out, so they poked you in the back.

BMW flew somebody out from Germany to redo them and also asked us what they could do the help make up for the mistake and hassle. I asked if they could throw in the Sirius satellite upgrade, which was a $600 option or about what a month's payment would have been if we hadn't paid cash. They were more than happy to do that while the car was in getting fixed.

I'd like to see Tesla step up and do something similar.

I've been through this rodeo before with Tesla. When I took delivery of my first Model S back in January 2013 it was delivered without the carbon fiber spoiler, parcel shelf, and rear facing kid seats I had ordered, all due bill. I then watched the months go by as new cars got delivered with all of those options from the factory, but me still waiting month after month for enough spare parts for my retrofit. I was more willing to be patient with them as they were still fledgling and frankly those options weren't crucial.

Here we are again, but this time the next-gen seats are one of the main reasons I did this upgrade. I was _this_ close to not taking delivery of my P85D when I got there and saw it didn't have the next-gen seats, and just reorder another one knowing how these part shortages go. I now seriously wish I had done that, as that replacement P85D would be getting delivered to me now with the next-gen seats. This is the first time I find myself with regrets towards a Tesla purchase. A little consideration would go a long way to re-establishing goodwill.

 

[ElectricTundra]

This is no different than airlines choosing to make one late flight even later rather than use another plane to reduce the delay of the first flight but then cause a delay on the second flight and then likely also a delay to a third and the dominoes keep falling. Long enough delay and the airlines do though provide some (though usually not enough IMO) compensation. I'd be very surprised if Tesla didn't do something and many folks may in the end be glad they were in the delayed group.

 

[pmppk]

Which I understand, because it is the smart business decision. Why upset a second set of customers? Better to just let the first set of upset customers become a little more upset.

My point is that what Tesla should do, to offset our becoming more upset, and to make up for it somewhat, is to compensate us in some way. I fully understand that right now it does not make good business sense for Tesla to give me my seat and not give someone else about to get their P85D theirs (or to not build someone else's P85D.) Fine. So give me something else, while I wait, to make up for it.

I understand their reasons, but I still don't think it is right. It's a desire to book the revenue for high margin vehicles as soon as possible. This is the same desire that drove them to deliver our cars incomplete. It may be a good financial decision, but I disagree that it is a good business decision. There is no need to upset a second set of customers. Just be upfront about the expected delivery dates before orders are placed. Instead of quoting late March for a new P85D order with next-gen seats, they could easily quote April or May.

Here we are again, but this time the next-gen seats are one of the main reasons I did this upgrade. I was _this_ close to not taking delivery of my P85D when I got there and saw it didn't have the next-gen seats, and just reorder another one knowing how these part shortages go. I now seriously wish I had done that, as that replacement P85D would be getting delivered to me now with the next-gen seats. This is the first time I find myself with regrets towards a Tesla purchase. A little consideration would go a long way to re-establishing goodwill.

Same here. This issue, and mysterious (at the time of delivery) lack of torque sleep leave a really bad taste in my mouth. I find myself constantly explaining Tesla's "over promise, under deliver" history to people when talking about my car, and can use my own brand-new vehicle as an example. "I paid for their top of the line model and they sold me an unfinished car. I have to take it back at some unknown point for them to install the seats that I ordered and paid for."

I feel like Tesla is just demonstrating a total lack of care for their existing customers by prioritizing new orders over our existing, paid ones. I do agree with both of you that there is probably some alternative consideration that they could give to those of us in this situation to re-establish goodwill. I don't know what that would be, and I don't think we should have to beg for it. A company that truly cared about customer service would have offered it right away to surprise and delight the customers that they have inconvenienced.

 

[redp85d]

As a leasee I would like to drive the car for at least 2 more months (post 36) with the next gen seat. Is it unfair ? Given that I am going to get it ~ 6 months late.

 

[dirkhh]

I think we have unrealistic expectations. Early Adopters get the short stick almost everywhere.
You buy the new phone the day it comes out, you stand in line, you pay full price - a few month later they improve the antenna and the build quality and it gets cheaper.
Same for more or less any gadget.
Is it fair? No. Is it right? No. Does it make sense from the point of view of the manufacturer? Heck yes.
And we've seen this over and over again. A batteries. Having bought your car two weeks before parking sensors were added (that would be me with my S60). Autopilot hardware. The list goes on.

Yes, Tesla could delay P85D production. People might complain (Umm, check my signature... I certainly would). And they would add even more cars to the list of cars that need to be refurbished. Which costs labor. And what do they do with the old seats? Etc, etc. It simply makes no economic sense. What's the cost of doing what they are doing? Some people get grumpy who have already spent >$100k showing how much they love Tesla, and who will most likely be first in line again when the P110D+ with 2.6 second 0-60 gets announced in early 2017

And just to make sure: no, I'm not saying you are wrong to complain or to be angry. I'm just saying that realistically this is what happens to Early Adopters (sorry, @EarlyAdopter). Over and over again.

 

[pmppk]

This is very different from the autopilot hardware, parking sensors, heated steering wheel, etc.

We ordered cars with the next-gen seats. We PAID extra for the next-gen seats as an option. They are listed on our window stickers and our purchase agreements. Those of us who took out loans are paying interest on seats that we don't have, while those of us who are leasing are paying rent for seats we don't have.

Tesla took our money, and delivered our cars without the options we paid for. They actually do OWE us these seats, and we're paying interest on the loan that we gave them.

Tesla chose to get themselves into this situation by delivering our cars without these seats, just so they could book the sales in December. We agreed to take delivery under those circumstances with the assurance that we'd get the new seats installed as soon as they were available. I was told January to March would be the time frame. Now that has changed to MAYBE be May, while Tesla is still offering to deliver new orders placed today with these seats by the end of March.