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Traction Control/Swaying under Firmware v4.2 ?

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i noticed "swaying" the first week of ownership, and then less and less, and now not at all.

in my opinion, it was due to the new tires and that slick coating. that is gone now, and i floor it all the time in my P85, and no problems whatsoever.

give it a month or two :cool:

I think the 50/50 weight balance combined w/ the rear wheel power gets you a little loose under hard acceleration.
 
I got my car a week ago and experienced what I think is being described as the swaying for the first time today. I was going about 60 when I decided to accelerate quickly to maybe 75 to pass someone. It suddenly felt like the car was abruptly shifting from side to side. The swaying was severe enough that I could not make the lane change and had to slow down. It was very unsettling. To be fair, it could have happened when I started turning the wheel slightly to get back in the lane rather than going straight-ahead, but either way, I would think the car should handle a high-speed lane change more smoothly. My old car, a RWD Infiniti G37S, would have had no problem with the maneuver. I love my model S but am hoping this is a software issue that can be fixed in subsequent releases. I have version 4.2 and use standard steering. Any thoughts?

I wonder if the instant full torque has something to do with this?

I highly think the instant torque is the main factor. I don't think people quite understand how much faster the torque comes on when you press the pedal.

I was experiencing this also. And was able to recreate it. If you delay your accelerator a half second in this maneuver the car feels VERY solid and planted. I think being used to an ICE and having a slight delay between throttle and torque to the road, when doing a timed maneuver like a lane change, you compensate for the lag. And in turn press the accelerator early. What happens is instead of having the torque really turn on right as the cars weight is settling, you are hitting the accelerator, as the weight is shifting. I think TC might kick on for a brief moment, but the main cause in applying a lot of torque as the car is shifting weight.

Also note that the Model S picks up crosswinds very easily, and this can have a similar, but not exactly the same, feel. I have adapted my aggressive lane change maneuver accelerator timing and am not having the same feeling you had, and I previously had.

Spend some time changing lanes and trying to feel the car's weight shift. The low CG and limited body roll make this harder than a regular car. Then think about when you really want to start accelerating. My guess is you are pressing the pedal about 0.5s too soon.
 
the other night I went out to demonstrate the car to a friend and the road was a bit wet. this was the first and only time the car acted erratically, swaying briefly. it caught me by surprise and has made me more cautious since. this is with the latest software.
 
I highly think the instant torque is the main factor. I don't think people quite understand how much faster the torque comes on when you press the pedal.

I was experiencing this also. And was able to recreate it. If you delay your accelerator a half second in this maneuver the car feels VERY solid and planted. I think being used to an ICE and having a slight delay between throttle and torque to the road, when doing a timed maneuver like a lane change, you compensate for the lag. And in turn press the accelerator early. What happens is instead of having the torque really turn on right as the cars weight is settling, you are hitting the accelerator, as the weight is shifting. I think TC might kick on for a brief moment, but the main cause in applying a lot of torque as the car is shifting weight.

Also note that the Model S picks up crosswinds very easily, and this can have a similar, but not exactly the same, feel. I have adapted my aggressive lane change maneuver accelerator timing and am not having the same feeling you had, and I previously had.

Spend some time changing lanes and trying to feel the car's weight shift. The low CG and limited body roll make this harder than a regular car. Then think about when you really want to start accelerating. My guess is you are pressing the pedal about 0.5s too soon.

I agree that torque is the main factor, but the instantaneous torque creates a moment of torque steer that might be exacerbated by the conditions you describe above. The car seems to always sway or slide a little to the left (rear end). I've never felt it slide to the right.
 
I agree that torque is the main factor, but the instantaneous torque creates a moment of torque steer that might be exacerbated by the conditions you describe above. The car seems to always sway or slide a little to the left (rear end). I've never felt it slide to the right.

I agree with spatterso911. I can't say I've noticed which way it sways, but as I've said before, it feels like torque steer to me. If this was a front wheel drive car, we'd all be calling it torque steer, wouldn't we? Just because it's RWD doesn't mean that you can't have torque steer. If that's the case, I'm not sure software is going to fix it. It seems like they'd need to tweak the rear axles or differential.

Earlier in the thread I reported that I noticed the issue less with steering on Standard or Comfort. I'd like to retract that. I still feel it on Comfort steering.
 
I highly think the instant torque is the main factor. I don't think people quite understand how much faster the torque comes on when you press the pedal.

I was experiencing this also. And was able to recreate it. If you delay your accelerator a half second in this maneuver the car feels VERY solid and planted. I think being used to an ICE and having a slight delay between throttle and torque to the road, when doing a timed maneuver like a lane change, you compensate for the lag. And in turn press the accelerator early.
Hah! Yes! On my shakedown cruise, I realized that I have to change my habits, because I have that habit and I have to break it. Once you retrain yourself, the instant torque is really a lot easier to work with, but there's a lot of subtle habits you have to break.

What happens is instead of having the torque really turn on right as the cars weight is settling, you are hitting the accelerator, as the weight is shifting. I think TC might kick on for a brief moment, but the main cause in applying a lot of torque as the car is shifting weight.

Also note that the Model S picks up crosswinds very easily, and this can have a similar, but not exactly the same, feel. I have adapted my aggressive lane change maneuver accelerator timing and am not having the same feeling you had, and I previously had.

Spend some time changing lanes and trying to feel the car's weight shift. The low CG and limited body roll make this harder than a regular car. Then think about when you really want to start accelerating. My guess is you are pressing the pedal about 0.5s too soon.

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I agree with spatterso911. I can't say I've noticed which way it sways, but as I've said before, it feels like torque steer to me. If this was a front wheel drive car, we'd all be calling it torque steer, wouldn't we? Just because it's RWD doesn't mean that you can't have torque steer. If that's the case, I'm not sure software is going to fix it. It seems like they'd need to tweak the rear axles or differential.

Torque steer can be caused by tire problems or other car-specific problems. If a couple of people have a consistent pull to the left and nobody else does... get your specific cars checked.
 
the other night I went out to demonstrate the car to a friend and the road was a bit wet. this was the first and only time the car acted erratically, swaying briefly. it caught me by surprise and has made me more cautious since. this is with the latest software.


I see it as lot's of torque and you are "breaking" the rear end free. Happens with all rear wheel drive cars that have more power than grip. And front wheel drive cars too.
 
I noticed a certain amount of swaying:

S.mud.season.jpg
 
I experienced very strong fishtailing when accelerating hard from 10 mph on a straight uphill ramp. Later I discovered the car was delivered with tires at 42 lb on the driver's side and 52 lb on the offside. After 700 miles the "tire pressure too high" warning message appeared. I have set them all at 42 lb and will experiment to see if it still happens at the same spot. Wheels are 21".
 
Tried the same hard acceleration thing in the same location with the tires all at 42 lb and this time I felt no fishtailing. I wonder if anyone else checked their tire pressures after experiencing this effect. It is odd that the car would be delivered with excessive pressure on 2 tires. 42 is the rated pressure according to the sticker on the driver's door frame. A huge amount of torque applied to tires with very different pressures seems to me something that mights cause instability.
 
Tried the same hard acceleration thing in the same location with the tires all at 42 lb and this time I felt no fishtailing. I wonder if anyone else checked their tire pressures after experiencing this effect. It is odd that the car would be delivered with excessive pressure on 2 tires. 42 is the rated pressure according to the sticker on the driver's door frame. A huge amount of torque applied to tires with very different pressures seems to me something that mights cause instability.

My car was delivered with excessive pressure (> 55 psi) on all four tires. Overpressure alarm went off within 30 miles of delivery.
It's a problem and I've brought it to the attention of everyone at Tesla I talk to, but I still hear more reports.
 
Tried the same hard acceleration thing in the same location with the tires all at 42 lb and this time I felt no fishtailing. I wonder if anyone else checked their tire pressures after experiencing this effect. It is odd that the car would be delivered with excessive pressure on 2 tires. 42 is the rated pressure according to the sticker on the driver's door frame. A huge amount of torque applied to tires with very different pressures seems to me something that mights cause instability.


Would make sense that in high traction situation, no fishtailing such as dry road. Do the same test on a wet or icy road. The TC should allow a bit of fishtailing.
 
I also had high tire pressure. I was a direct shipment from the factory, and I admittedly did NOT check the tire pressures for the first week when I experienced the fish tailing. I have not noticed the issue since adjusting the tire pressure. Now I'm not sure if that was the issue, or if I'm just used to the car now.

FYI, one the Tesla service guys told me they deliberately put the tire pressure high at the factory to prevent tire damage when the car is sitting for a long time.
 
I also had high tire pressure. I was a direct shipment from the factory, and I admittedly did NOT check the tire pressures for the first week when I experienced the fish tailing. I have not noticed the issue since adjusting the tire pressure. Now I'm not sure if that was the issue, or if I'm just used to the car now.

FYI, one the Tesla service guys told me they deliberately put the tire pressure high at the factory to prevent tire damage when the car is sitting for a long time.
The service guy is ALMOST right. Tires are set to high pressures when being shipped on a truck so the car doesn't bounce as much while being transported. If the car bounces too much a strap could come loose, a rim could get dinged, etc.

Our car had 52psi and was a factory delivery (got the overpressure alarm within 10 miles). My guess (not confirmed by Tesla) is that the factory is setting all the tires to 52psi after mounting and the delivery folks are supposed to drop the tires to 42 when they hand the car over. Looks like sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't.
 
The service guy is ALMOST right. Tires are set to high pressures when being shipped on a truck so the car doesn't bounce as much while being transported. If the car bounces too much a strap could come loose, a rim could get dinged, etc.

.

They did the same thing with my Volvo S60. Inflated the tires to something like 50+ PSI to avoid damage while being shipped.
 
I experienced very strong fishtailing when accelerating hard from 10 mph on a straight uphill ramp. Later I discovered the car was delivered with tires at 42 lb on the driver's side and 52 lb on the offside. After 700 miles the "tire pressure too high" warning message appeared. I have set them all at 42 lb and will experiment to see if it still happens at the same spot. Wheels are 21".

A common problem. The day I got my S2000 I took it out for a spin, and found it had scary torque steer. When I got home I checked the tire pressures and the rears had an 10 PSI differential. Fixed the pressures and all was good.