Twin Chargers: Why?

[scaesare]

We're at the Omni hotel here in Richmond VA for an extended weekend attending a convention. I chose the Omni because they have an EV charger for guests. It turns out it's a 70 amp charger.(Interestingly a Tesla branded unit with a J1772 connectector on it).

While it was all ours the first night, since then two Volts have arrived. One of them is a friend's.With contention for the charger, I'm able to top off in 2-4 hours after one of the other EV's is done, as opposed waiting more like 4-8 as I'd have to do with a single charger.



Oh, and there are no Superchargers down around these parts yet...

 

[xray]

We're at the Omni hotel here in Richmond VA for an extended weekend attending a convention. I chose the Omni because they have an EV charger for guests. It turns out it's a 70 amp charger.(Interestingly a Tesla branded unit with a J1772 connectector on it).

While it was all ours the first night, since then two Volts have arrived. One of them is a friend's.With contention for the charger, I'm able to top off in 2-4 hours after one of the other EV's is done, as opposed waiting more like 4-8 as I'd have to do with a single charger.



Oh, and there are no Superchargers down around these parts yet...

I think the scenario you described is likely to play out many times in the future. I'm most likely to encounter this situation in Las Vegas. I hope some of the Las Vegas resorts install HPWC and allow those of us with twin chargers the ability to top off quicker (within 2-4 hours) rather than taking up a 30 amp L2 public charger for 4-12 hours.

 

[gregincal]

Since there are no plans to have a SC on the 101 north of SF that I know of, or at least no reliable plans, the Tesla service center in San Rafael is a great option for visiting Wine Country or the Point Reyes area.

The 2014 supercharger map shows one somewhere around Santa Rosa.

 

[Seattle]

The only option I feel regret about not having is not getting the second charger. Here in WA state there are quite a few 70 amp chargers. I've had several times I've plugged into high power chargers, not including at the tesla offices. Now I'd rather have a chademo adapter than dual chargers, but we'll have to see if or when we really get the chademo.

I got my car before superchargers were on the scene, but when I ordered I didn't really understand hpwc was different than high power j1772. If I had I think I would have ordered the second charger. Since I didn't need hpwc at home, it seemed like I wouldn't need the dual chargers. Now that I've been on several long trips where I could have used it, I have missed it.

As far as we know, superchargers will only be installed where Tesla sees a need, never where other than Tesla sees the need, so it's likely that the best we'll have in the world at large (outside of main travel corridors) will be high power j1772. In Europe the Renault something supports > 10kw charging already today. There will be more support for higher power charging as time goes on, just as cars have bigger engines. There's even room for Tesla to make an improvement here, as the three phase power in Europe suggests that Tesla could make a triple charger car eventually and support 30kw (based on my reading here, there seems to be some confusion still about exactly how they are using the three phases in charging there but its still 20kw apparently).

The three levers that can improve for electric vehicles are charging time, range, and cost - the Tesla already has good enough performance. All these things can and will improve in the future. I guarantee it It's the same curve followed by most technologies. Just like the 2nd gen leaf moved from 3 to 6kw chargers, things will keep getting better. I predict the required chademo+frankenplug l2 chargers in cali will kick off improved and cost reduced chargers there - and if you already have high power to your l2 dc charger, it should be fairly inexpensive to add a high power ac charger.

My last bit of pontification is that I still wish Tesla would offer a plug conversion for all the roadsters to the model s plug, so we could then go and covert all those roadster chargers to be native for my car.

 

[brianman]

My last bit of pontification is that I still wish Tesla would offer a plug conversion for all the roadsters to the model s plug, so we could then go and covert all those roadster chargers to be native for my car.

First, thank you Roadster owners and supporters for your Roadster HPCs. I've used 5 of them in just over 24 hours.

Secondly, does anyone have a good educated guess on the total Roadster HPC count worldwide (including homes)?

 

[smorgasbord]

So, it's been just about a year since the last post to this thread, and I'm wondering if there's been any change in attitude by Model S buyers. Is there any significant buying of twin chargers with the intent of using them on the road?

And, how many high power (>50amp) public chargers have been installed that are not near Superchargers?

 

[Cottonwood]

So, it's been just about a year since the last post to this thread, and I'm wondering if there's been any change in attitude by Model S buyers. Is there any significant buying of twin chargers with the intent of using them on the road?

And, how many high power (>50amp) public chargers have been installed that are not near Superchargers?

I am a strong advocate of twin chargers for anybody that plans to do much road tripping. Superchargers are great, but sometimes, it's nice to get off the Supercharger Highway and explore. Here are a few examples of High Amp Level 2 (HAL2) chargers in the wild:

1. Sun Country Highway Across Canada - There are a series of 70 and 80 Amp usable, 90 and 100 Amp breaker J1772 HAL2's across Canada.
2. Sun Country Highway in the U.S. - Both as a partnership with Best Western Hotels and an initiative in Washington State, Sun Country is installing many HAL2's in the U.S. See EV Trip Planner - Sun Country Highway for locations.
3. Most Telsa Service Centers and Show Rooms have 80 Amp HPWCs that can be used. It's really painful to have 80 Amps available and only be able to use 40 Amps. When I spent a few days in San Diego last March, the 80 Amp HPWC's at the San DIego Service Center were a wonderful resource.
4. Owner Installed HPWC's - There are a lot of these around that you can find via PlugShare or asking on TMC.
5. Tesla's Destination Charging Initiative - Tesla will give or sell at half price, HPWC's to Hotels and Restaurants. Many place are taking advantage of this.
6. Random Private Installs - For example, I helped Incredible Pagosa Vacation Rentals in Pagosa Springs, Colorado, and Wood's High Mountain Distillery in Salida, CO install 70 Amp J1772 HAL2's. If you have dual chargers, Farmington to Denver is just as fast using these stops as taking the Supercharger Highway.

 

[ecarfan]

I agree with all the points @Cottonwood made. There have been other threads this year by buyers wondering whether or not to order twin chargers. Some people don't see the need, many others do. I'm glad I included twin chargers in my build.

 

[green1]

Depends where you are... Canada still has zero superchargers (though at long last the first one is under construction) but we have a lot of high power public chargers on the SunCountry Highway network. Twin Chargers are pretty much essential if you want to leave town.
If you live in California where there's a supercharger on every street corner (ok, I know I exaggerate, but sitting in a country without any it sure feels that way when I hear people nit-pick them down there) there's much less need for the twin chargers.

 

[jerry33]

My view is similar to Cottonwood's: You won't regret getting them. On my last vacation trip they saved four hours of actual charge time and twelve hours of subjective charge time because I was able to hit the third (and last) charge stop in time to rent a cabin to sleep in.

 

[TES-E]

I went with the dual chargers, not because I will use both of them often, but because when I do need them, I will be ever so glad that I have them. I was going to say cheap insurance, but they are not cheap. However for me it is well worth it. YMMV.

 

[GoBlue88]

I went with the dual chargers, not because I will use both of them often, but because when I do need them, I will be ever so glad that I have them. I was going to say cheap insurance, but they are not cheap. However for me it is well worth it. YMMV.

This was pretty much my reasoning. In a month of ownership I've already used them once on a HPWC at the San Diego service center.

 

[ZBB]

I 'only' have a single charger and have no regrets not getting the 2nd charger.

Cottonwood points out where you could use dual chargers -- but the key is would you actually use those? In my case, the answer is "no"...

Looking back on the 18,000 miles I've put on my car in just shy of 13 months, I haven't been any place where I could use a HAL2. Part of that is there are only 3 known HAL2s in public in AZ -- and 2 of those are Tesla facilities. 95%+ of my charging has been at home. For the 2 in-state road trips I've done so far, we had destination charging via NEMA 14-50 (one hotel and one RV park) and one of those trips included Supercharging en-route. We're doing a nearly 4,000 mile road trip this summer, and nearly all charging will be by Supercharger -- the only planned non-Supercharging will destination charging at Disneyland, 3 blocks from a hotel in Oregon, a public garage in Seattle, and 120V charging at my in-laws in BC, none of which would benefit from HAL2. Hopefully the Indio Supercharger will be online before our trip -- but if its not, I'm OK waiting 2x the time to charge from the HPWCs in Cathedral City on a single charger (and that would be my only stop that would benefit from the 2nd charger).

But that's my case. You have to look at your need and make the decision.

I will say that if I lived in WA, OR or Canada, I would have gotten the 2nd charger...

 

[brianman]

I will say that if I lived in WA, OR or Canada, I would have gotten the 2nd charger...

Just to complete the thought: Can you elaborate a bit on why that tips the decision? Volume of available >40A? Terrain? Climate? Other?

 

[nwdiver]

Batteries are most content at ~50% so I typically keep mine ~60% SOC. I like the flexibility twin chargers gives me. If I decide I want to go somewhere that's ~100 miles from where I live I can get to 90% SOC in ~90 minutes.

 

[dirkhh]

I live in OR. In almost a year and 15k miles I have yet to charge at an AC charger that would have allowed me >10kW. 90+% of all L2 chargers that I charged at were 7kW or less. Unless you find a NEMA 14-50 which gives you 9.6.
So for me it would have been a complete waste of money to get dual chargers.

 

[ZsoZso]

Just to complete the thought: Can you elaborate a bit on why that tips the decision? Volume of available >40A? Terrain? Climate? Other?

Sun Country Highway has installed a significant number of 70A-90A L2 chargers in Canada which are all free to use, while we do not have any Superchargers at the moment. These L2 chargers have a very nice coverage including some hotels and typical tourist destinations too. I am getting a dual charger for that reason -- to use those L2 chargers on road trips, at home I will only use a NEMA 14-50, that will be more than enough for my typical daily commute.

 

[brianman]

I guess I should have been explicit...

I was hoping ZBB would finish his thought.