Twin Chargers: Why?

[rolosrevenge]

I can still see a lot of out of the way places putting up a few 70 A J1772 that would be very useful. Places you'd go to spend an afternoon before continuing on. With Twin chargers, you can have a full charge after thee hours or so and don't have to worry about hyper-miling.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

70A EVSE can be deployed for very little money... why not donate some to your favourite stopping locations so that everyone can benefit?

This 63A EVSE costs less then $500... you need the J1772 version but costs are about the same;

 

[TEG]

Why I ordered Twin 10kw Chargers from day one:

1. Roadster has 20kw charger, therefore MS should have equivalent capability.
2. If one craps out, the twin can seamlessly take over.
3. TM will provide a DIY kit someday soon to enable twin charging from adjacent EVSEs.

2 & 3 are components of a recurring dream I've been having. 1 is simply the consistency of a small mind.
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OK, I read 1/2/3, and was about to starting questioning your comments, but then I see you clarified!
Your logic is starting to sink in...

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That would be useful but most of the chargers that have been installed that I know about we're subsidized by DOE and they only install 30A chargers for some reason.

I think there are various reasons why 30A seems to be common, and higher current J1772s are the exception so far.
#1: I think 30A J1772 plugs got UL approval first, so we started with 30A.
#2: To keep costs down, many manufacturers (Nissan/LEAF, Ford/FocusEV, Honda/FitEV) have chosen to include chargers that can pull no more than 30A, so a 30A EVSE will provide "full capability" to the majority of EVs that may want to use it.
#3: It is easier to find existing wiring and breakers available to provide 30A than it is for the higher currents.
#4: Acceptance is also tied to keeping the costs of the EVSEs down.
#5: Plug-in hybrids (PiP, Volt, etc.) tend to have smaller battery packs, so lower charge rates tend to be adequate for them.
(Some may conclude that they will represent a significant portion of public EVSE usage in the near term based on projected sales volumes.)

 

[dsm363]

I think there are various reasons why 30A seems to be common, and higher current J1772s are the exception so far.
#1: I think 30A J1772 plugs got UL approval first, so we started with 30A.
#2: To keep costs down, many manufacturers (Nissan/LEAF, Ford/FocusEV, Honda/FitEV) have chosen to include chargers that can pull no more than 30A, so a 30A EVSE will provide "full capability" to the majority of EVs that may want to use it.
#3: It is easier to find existing wiring and breakers available to provide 30A than it is for the higher currents.
#4: Acceptance is also tied to keeping the costs of the EVSEs down.
#5: Plug-in hybrids (PiP, Volt, etc.) tend to have smaller battery packs, so lower charge rates tend to be adequate for them.
(Some may conclude that they will represent a significant portion of public EVSE usage in the near term based on projected sales volumes.)

Thanks. With all of the 50A outlets at campgrounds, I would have hoped they would make things a little more future-proof and go for 40A J1772 plugs but everything you said is right. Superchargers should make this a little less of a deal.

 

[Lloyd]

Now that we've seen the plans for an extensive and free supercharger network this question begs to be asked again.

Today the twin chargers are still useful along the 101 and 80 up to north Tahoe, but if in the near future those routes are covered by superchargers it makes those hpcs and $1500 twin chargers redundant and a waste of money, right?

That would be true if superchargers were everywhere you need to charge, but they are not and likely will not be for some time. I was looking at the route from Los Angeles along the coast. It is 340 miles to Gilroy along the 101. It will require at least a short charge somewhere if you choose this route. Even in the extended plan there is not a supercharger along this route. San Luis Obispo is right in the middle at about 170 miles each way and seems like a perfect location to put one. I was a little surprised that one was not allocated here. I heard their represenative was here trying to elicit some community support.

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70A EVSE can be deployed for very little money... why not donate some to your favourite stopping locations so that everyone can benefit?

This 63A EVSE costs less then $500... you need the J1772 version but costs are about the same;

View attachment 10139

Those appear to be 30 amp connectors. This is 2 x 30 amps?

 

[KenEE]

Kevin, What model is that? Is it available in the U.S.?

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Those appear to be 30 amp connectors. This is 2 x 30 amps?

In this photo the EVSE is 63A & Type 1 to Type 2 cable 32A... but the point remains, this hardware is cheap so why not donate it and create a national network?

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Kevin, What model is that? Is it available in the U.S.?

Not today... we may release the Protocol Module in the US to help drive down the cost of EVSE.

 

[dpeilow]

There are those guys that make boxes you can buy on ebay etc that take J1772 and turn it back to a NEMA 14-50 or any other plug. It would not be hard to make one that takes two or three J1772 inputs, checks for phase difference and then outputs 60 or 80A.

 

[smorgasbord]

Given the recent disclosure that SuperCharging on the 60 kWh batter will cost $2000 if you haven't yet finalized, I think it's clearly better to spend $2000 for Supercharger access versus spending $1000 for the Twin Chargers. I'll bet you'll almost certainly use the SC chargers more than you'll run into people with HPCs for you to use on the road.

 

[jerry33]

Twin chargers are more of a concern if you are trying to future-proof your car and believe that there will be other 70-80 amp public chargers during the lifetime of your car. Or if you get the HPWC.

 

[JackA]

I contacted the makers of EV charging stations deployed along the Washington State Electric Highways Initiative routes. Highest Amperage is 32 at 240 volts. So even though we reserved an 85 kWh battery we are not getting the twin charger option. At home I have plenty of time to charge, on the highway I can only get 32 Amp which the single charger will handle. Perhaps the Tesla Super Chargers will come to Washington State in the future and we can use them too. I was disappointed to learn that most RV parks are providing 110 Volt only so even if they have 30 Amp service I will be on boarding only 3,300 Watts/hour.

 

[ChadS]

Jack, you are correct the J1772 stations at WA's CHAdeMO location are limited; I gave the WA DOT heck for that, but they just begged Aerovironment for J1772 after the wrote the CHAdeMO contract, and that was all Aerovironment had.

HERE is a map with some 70A locations (the blue flags) on the West Coast. Some of them are J1772, some are HPCs and would require an HPC-to-Model S adapter, which Tesla has charged me for but not delivered yet.

By the way, look for campgrounds with 50A service. That runs at 240V. Not all campgrounds have it, but many do and places like KOA that attract the big rigs often have a good setup and note availability on their web site.

 

[smorgasbord]

Some of them are J1772, some are HPCs...

Thanks for the link. I think almost all of them are J1772 now - the comments in there are a couple years old.

 

[ChadS]

Most of the ones in the Southern half of CA are J1772. But I think almost everything from Orland CA and North is still an HPC. (One exception: I heard the one in Blaine WA got moved to J1772). I last tried most of them in June. I don't have another trip to CA planned until Jan; I hope my HPC-to-Model S adapter is here so I can take the Model S.

 

[JackA]

Is it safe to say that if you can find adapters connecting the Model S travel cord to your target source outlet it will work? I am concerned about trying to charge at a location that might end up damaging the battery.

 

[mitch672]

Is it safe to say that if you can find adapters connecting the Model S travel cord to your target source outlet it will work? I am concerned about trying to charge at a location that might end up damaging the battery.

From what I understand the charging cable (UMC2) comes with a standard 120V adapter and your choice of 1 other adapter, most should get the 14-50, which is used in RV Parks, and is what Tesla is advising to be installed in your garage. There are also some 30A adapters available from Tesla.

You can build an adapter to the 14-50 for example, just remember to dial down the charging current in the Model S to whatever your circuit can support. You won't damage the Model S, but you will likely trip the circuit breaker if you draw to much current. The Tesla adapters adjust the max current automatically, but if you build your own to the Tesla 14-50, you would have to manually tell the Model S to draw less than 40A, if your circuit can't support that (example, you build an adapter to a 30A dryer circuit - just adjust the current to 24A, can't be more than %80 of circuit capacity)

 

[CarlE_P439]

I ordered the Twin Chargers due to the fact that I am hopeful that there will be some chargers on the road that are more than 30-40A. I also realized (after I had configured my car) that charging with a High Power Wall Connector at a Tesla service station (or retail store) could be an option while traveling as well and in that case Twin Chargers are the way to go. I plan on taking long road trips and the Superchargers will not be on the east coast until 2015 but it looks like a number of Tesla service stations will be opening up in March of next year (if all goes as planned). At this point, I am willing to wait an hour+ for some extra juice for my battery, but not 5 hours (at 30A charger for instance!!).

 

[slyastro]

My Model S will definitively have the Twin Chargers !! here's why:

Here in Canada, a company called Sun Country Highway is installing RIGHT NOW J1772@ 70Amps continuous output Coast to Coast at every 200 KM !! They installed 10 of those chargers just in Prince Edward Island ... they are actually installing their 70A stations in Quebec and Ontario ...

They have the exclusive distribution rights in Canada from Clipper Creek (the only maker that makes EVSE at over 70 Amps to my knowledge)!

Tesla's 90 KW Superchargers must be VERY expensive ... does anyone have an idea of the total cost including installation? Just the power capacity must be very expensive, and not available everywhere. Moreover, they are exclusive to Tesla.

But a 70A clipper creek charger is less than 2500$, and a 90 Amps breaker is available about everywhere. In the worst case scenario, you have to add a second 200A electric panel, which cost about 2000$. Moreover, since those chargers are J1772, they work with all EV's!!

So I'm not sure that, in the short term, I will have access to the Superchargers ... that's why I will look for 70Amps @ 240V chargers ... but to really profit from that power, I will need the twin charger option.

 

[Lloyd]

They have the exclusive distribution rights in Canada from Clipper Creek (the only maker that makes EVSE at over 70 Amps to my knowledge)!

Eaton makes a 70 A J1772 EVSE and it is available in Canada. Part Number SAR3B1000000 Wall Mount or SBR3B1000000 Pedestal Mount, network enabled. There are other descriptors to the part number depending on options you select.

 

[slyastro]

Eaton makes a 70 A J1772 EVSE and it is available in Canada. Part Number SAR3B1000000 Wall Mount or SBR3B1000000 Pedestal Mount, network enabled. There are other descriptors to the part number depending on options you select.

Thanks Lloyd! It's good to see that makers are starting to make 70 Amps EVSE !! What price can you get for the 70 Amps Eaton? What I see on the web is no less than 3500$ and even over 4000$

Lets hope that the other EVSE manufacturers do the same !!