Wiki UK and Ireland Supercharger Site News

[Sean.]

which makes sense.
because max power input into car is up to 10-15% of SOC and then drops.

View attachment 983804

average output of SC probably in the region of 120 kw at best

View attachment 983805

2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD With 82 kWh Battery: Charging Analysis

Today we will take a look at the most recent fast charging test of the 2021 Tesla Model 3 Long Range version, conducted by Bjørn Nyland at a V3 Supercharger.

insideevs.com

Yeah its basically the same for all charge point operators, as its simply the nature of the beast - it would be statistically nigh on impossible for all charge points at a site to be drawing the full / maximum operational power output.

So quite sensibly like good engineers, they only size the grid connection at a fraction of the maximum power per bay/stall x number of bays/stalls.

What is interesting though is that Tesla SuC appear to then only be sized at say 1.2 MW for 12 x 250kW posts. Whereas Ionity will size their grid connection at around 2.5 MW for 12 x 350 kW posts - essentially double the grid conn. - if what Ive heard anecdotally is true.

This may explain why Tesla can pop up a supercharger site far, far more quickly than Ionity and some others, all else being equal - if their grid needs are more modest.

 

[browellm]

What is interesting though is that Tesla SuC appear to then only be sized at say 1.2 MW for 12 x 250kW posts. Whereas Ionity will size their grid connection at around 2.5 MW for 12 x 350 kW posts - essentially double the grid conn. - if what Ive heard anecdotally is true.

Perhaps they've been scaling for those mad Audi charging curves we saw with eTrons when they first came out. Are the newer models still like that?

 

[Sean.]

Perhaps they've been scaling for those mad Audi charging curves we saw with eTrons when they first came out. Are the newer models still like that?

Ionity being open to anything, need to have capacity for just about anything I guess. The peak and average charge curves for new Eletre and upcoming Emeya are staggering. The Taycan and e-tron GT are reasonably tame by comparison.

 

[qwickshot]

Isn’t it more the case that most rapid chargers, including Ionity(certainly the early ones) are standalone units and can’t share power between stalls. They are just AC in and DC out.

If you can’t control the overall output, you have to size the supply to cover max power. I think newer units can have centralised control on their output and therefore they can have a smaller grid connection.

This is a very different design methodology to the likes of Tesla and Kempower who have central power cabinets that shunt power to what ever stall that needs it and between the different cabinets if they are not keeping up with the stalls connected to them.

 

[roadcred]

Just as a heads up- if you’re the owner of the white Model 3 that did about 80mph the wrong way down the one-way system at the Heathrow T3 Superchargers, I passed your registration to the hotel manager who took great pleasure in adding it to the “blocked” list at the entrance barriers (which are ANPR).

Really! This is not what this post is about? MYOB I say.....

 

[Electron Mike]

Anyone know what is happening about the Ipswich chargers?

 

[Fursty Ferret]

Really! This is not what this post is about? MYOB I say.....

Ah, let me guess, someone who subscribes to the playground attitude that "grassing up" dangerous drivers is bad.

Wait, were you the driver?

 

[Jason71]

Ah, let me guess, someone who subscribes to the playground attitude that "grassing up" dangerous drivers is bad.

Wait, were you the driver?

I think he was more meaning that this does not quality as "Supercharger Site News"

 

[Fursty Ferret]

Arguably it will be news to the driver in question when he arrives at the barrier and it won't open.

 

[Sean.]

Anyone know what is happening about the Ipswich chargers?

It's in build. There's an update further up, with the substation that was placed on it pad around 12 days ago.

No sign of pedestals yet, or further enabling ground works for cabling etc when I visited last week.

 

[nickcarr79]

Heartlands / Whitburn is moving quickly: planning permission was granted on 25th August and already the charger cabinet is in place. Another pic on TOUK shows the stall foundations have also been built.

https://x.com/TeslaOwnersUK/status/1705223994968830155?s=20

The chargers are now in place but still covered. Can't be that long now. They were working on power yesterday I think.

I'll try and get an updated photo on my way home.

 

[Roy B]

V3 cabinets are 350kVA or 385kVA at 480V input according to their rating plate (there was a change sometime around 2022).

Right, so a fraction (about a third, give or take) of what would be required to supply the full 250kW to each stall on the cabinet.

It's not just V2 sites that share power - what's not generally understood is that V3 sites clearly must do, too. The difference is that V3 has a DC bus connecting the cabinets so power sharing is between all the stalls at the site - rather than between the stalls on a cabinet with V2 - hence it makes no difference which stall you use (assuming everything is working correctly )

I believe there are some examples of busy sites - not sure whether there are any UK examples - where they have deployed more cabinets than needed to handle the number of stalls deployed - presumably to increase the total site power. e.g .I think I recall hearing of a four cabinet 12 stall site in Europe - with three stalls connected to each cabinet - which obviously could have been supplied with just there cabinets, but with a lower overall site power.

 

[qwickshot]

Yes, V3 sites do absolutely share power but it’s across all stalls as you say and it is possible to reach the site maximum but in practice it doesn’t happen often.

The key point is that having the full 250 kw to each stall just isn’t needed. Cars can only pull 250kw for a fraction of the charge session and in reality 12 fully empty cars turning up at a 12 bay super charger and all plugging in at the same time just doesn’t happen.

Before you ask, yes a group of people have done that to test what happens and they had reduced power but as above, it doesn’t happen in reality.

Kempower based sites are exactly the same although from what I understand they tend to have a much lower capacity per stall than tesla and rely on the fact a lot of other EVs charge really slow. There is a lot more configuration flexibility on those as they do range from 75kw/150kw @ 400/800v to 150kw/300kw @ 400/800v depending on the site. Kempower is quite helpful in that the charger tells you if it’s limited by the charger or your vehicle. You can also scan a QR code on the screen so you can see how the charge is progressing via the web.

 

[cezdoc]

Good news. Notwithstanding potential congestion this appears to plug a bit of a gap on the M1 north of London.
Agreed the bases in the tweeted photos look rounded suggesting they will be V3. Based on the photos I estimate the exact location to be just beyond the McDonald's at (51.871900, -0.397300).

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V4 stalls going in at Luton. The "round = V3, square = V4" bases theory is pining for the fjords

https://x.com/TeslaOwnersUK/status/1717110151105171630?s=20

 

[arg]

I believe there are some examples of busy sites - not sure whether there are any UK examples - where they have deployed more cabinets than needed to handle the number of stalls deployed - presumably to increase the total site power. e.g .I think I recall hearing of a four cabinet 12 stall site in Europe - with three stalls connected to each cabinet - which obviously could have been supplied with just there cabinets, but with a lower overall site power.

I don't know of any UK examples (other than sites where physical constraints don't allow a multiple-of-4 set of stalls).

Where it does occur, another reason may be voltage. For the size of sites currently being installed, UK locations are very unlikely to have existing capacity at LV, so Tesla buy power at HV and install their own transformer, feeding the superchargers with 480V and so getting full rated output.
In some other locations they may be forced (by law or circumstances) to buy existing power at LV - so 400V typically, maybe 380V in an area that was historically 220V/380V before harmonization, maybe even less if a long cable run from the transformer is required. That will result in a supercharger with only 75%-80% of full power.

In a number of places in the V2 era, I think Norway being a key example, Tesla would install autotransformers to step up the supplied voltage to 480V to get full power out of the superchargers. Probably in the same circumstances in the V3 era it's cheaper to install more cabinets rather than the autotransformers.

 

[Dat37863]

V4 stalls going in at Luton. The "round = V3, square = V4" bases theory is pining for the fjords

https://x.com/TeslaOwnersUK/status/1717110151105171630?s=20

I wonder if they will start retrofitting V3 sites that are open to non-Teslas ?

 

[Sean.]

You can also scan a QR code on the screen so you can see how the charge is progressing via the web.

You can also see the charge curve throughout the charge - if you tap on the green battery icon when you open the summary web page, from the QR code.

 

[Sean.]

I wonder if they will start retrofitting V3 sites that are open to non-Teslas ?

Gonna have to soon in any event if the new legislation is enforced....

The Public Charge Point Regulations 2023

These Regulations are made using powers in the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018 (c. 18). They impose certain requirements on charge point operators that operate public charge points.

www.legislation.gov.uk

(2) For a rapid charge point in operation before the date on which these Regulations come into force, a charge point operator must, within one year from the date on which these Regulations come into force, ensure that a person using that charge point is able to pay by contactless payment to charge an electric vehicle.

 

[CMc1]

Did we lose “coming soon” on the Tesla map? It’s back.. haven’t done a deep dive

 

[cezdoc]

Did we lose “coming soon” on the Tesla map? It’s back.. haven’t done a deep dive

I think almost all the grey markers showing today have been there since at least February (with a handful of exceptions); Tesla's website hasn't listed the "coming soon" sites on the Supercharger directory listing since then. The wikipost listings reflect the February markers, less those that have opened; I had thought the only new marker added since then was popularity contest winner Bangor, but your post prompted me to check again and I found one extra marker for Washington N (almost hidden underneath the existing Washington SC marker, but positioned at the Moto Washington Northbound services). It may have been there a while but if it's new then it could be happening soon as it has a target opening date of Q4 2023.

The conversion rate seems to have been higher this year even though the marker positions and dates haven't been updated (last year they were updated quarterly). They are starting to get quite out-of-sync now though with no reported activity (AFAIK) at three Q3 2023 and six Q4 2023 sites. In addition, four sites known to be still under construction had a Q3 2023 target date (but then again some UK sites have opened ahead of target).