[UK Only] Single Stack / Highways

[WllXM]

OK, that's fine. But what is the equivalent BMW system then?

I'm not pushing an agenda here, it's just that I only know the car I drive which is the Tesla (plus two other vehicles that don't have this level of ADAS). People always pop up and say that Tesla have lost their advantage, other cars are just as good at it these days, etc, so I want to learn a bit more about the competing systems.

Most people mix up different behaviours that are within the scope of LKA. I believe most of these search results refer to ELKA, which is Emergency Lane Keep Assist, where the vehicle can suddenly swerve back into its lane if it detects you're starting to drift out. This 'course correction' can definitely surprise most drivers and lead to unfortunate reactions. LDW (Lane Departure Warning) already had the ability to startle some of us with loud beeps if you were to cross a line slightly without indicating beforehand. Always disabled that on my cars.
In a Tesla, this is under 'Lane Departure Avoidance', where you can set it to Off, Warning only, or the dreaded 'Assist'.

Not to be confused with the regular Autosteer, which is considered an ALKS (Automated Lane Keeping System) that is the foundation for autonomous driving, where the car keep in its lane by itself.

In a BMW I believe that used to be called Traffic Jam Assist when it couldn't be used above speeds of 30-40mph, not sure what the new name is now that regulations allow motorway speeds.
Edit: a quick google search shows it's apparently Driving Assistant Plus/Pro now.

 

[Mullermn]

Well, I'm already feeling more charitable towards Tesla's confusing mash of names for its ADAS features.. apparently that's industry standard.

 

[MrBadger]

It's a relatively minor gripe, but if the option exists to just have it not change lane unless I tell it to that would be an improved experience for me.

But it will never change lanes unless you tell it to. You have to tell it to/confirm a change lane. I've got a bit lost here... does you car automatically change lanes for you without you confirming?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I can only think if you have trouble with it moving back in to a left land after an overtake then you may be prepared to cut in more closely than others. I'm not suggesting you are chopping across people, just your idea of what a reasonable gap is and mine are different. Moving into a lane and taking away somebodies 2-3 second clear distance ahead of them isn't good, but many people do, and I'm sure I do it if I feel I'm travelling sufficiently quicker that the gap will soon open up. But if the car says "not enough distance.. not enough distance.. ok.. can start.. ooops timed out.." you can see where it might go wrong

 

[Zilla91]

Well, I'm already feeling more charitable towards Tesla's confusing mash of names for its ADAS features.. apparently that's industry standard.

View attachment 916060

I mean reading that, at least I know what each individual thing does thanks to the very specific names used. Much better than "autopilot" or "full self driving" (all forever in "beta") that doesn't really tell you anything about the capability of the system

 

[WannabeOwner]

I'm not talking about physically tight spaces

OK

it's more tight in that the timing of the change needs to be correct

Gotcha. I definitely don't think I have that problem ... but it might be perception.

I'm wondering if my problem might go away if I fiddle with some of the Autopilot settings. I'll give it a go.

I'm going to have a go at pretending I need to take every exit, and (deliberately) trying to move to nearside lane each time, and see what my fail / succeed ratio is. Might be on a decent number of attempts that I will find more failures than I remember ...

People always pop up and say that Tesla have lost their advantage

"People have always been saying that ..."

 

[Mullermn]

I mean reading that, at least I know what each individual thing does thanks to the very specific names used. Much better than "autopilot" or "full self driving" (all forever in "beta") that doesn't really tell you anything about the capability of the system

That's not really apples to apples though, is it? Autopilot etc are marketing names for packages of assistance functions, all of which have names that are no more mysterious than the BMW versions.

The BMW analogy to Autopilot etc would (appear) to be 'Active Cruise Control with Stop and Go function', 'Driving Assistant Plus' and 'Parking Assistant Professional', none of which are any clearer in name than Autopilot or Enhanced Autopilot.

I tried to look up what BMW's equivalent function to Full Self Driving is but the closest they seem to have is a L3 function that hasn't launched yet but which will be called 'Personal Pilot', and if you want to tell me that the difference between Driving Assistant Plus and Personal Pilot is immediately obvious to anyone by name alone then I would suggest you're viewing this through a slightly biased lens.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

That's not really apples to apples though, is it? Autopilot etc are marketing names for packages of assistance functions, all of which have names that are no more mysterious than the BMW versions.

View attachment 916133

The BMW analogy to Autopilot etc would (appear) to be 'Active Cruise Control with Stop and Go function', 'Driving Assistant Plus' and 'Parking Assistant Professional', none of which are any clearer in name than Autopilot or Enhanced Autopilot.

I tried to look up what BMW's equivalent function to Full Self Driving is but the closest they seem to have is a L3 function that hasn't launched yet but which will be called 'Personal Pilot', and if you want to tell me that the difference between Driving Assistant Plus and Personal Pilot is immediately obvious to anyone by name alone then I would suggest you're viewing this through a slightly biased lens.

What’s Teslas definition of FSD and what do you expect it to actually do? I’ve never seen an actual definition in the specs of the car, what does City streets actually mean given Musk has talked about robotaxi capabilities?

 

[Mullermn]

FSD is a dumb name, with the benefit of current perspective, that was picked back in the days when they (along with everyone else) thought self driving was going to be an easier problem to solve than it is. Now they’re stuck with it.

That’s the beginning and the end of the story of that name as far as I can see.

 

[Zilla91]

Full Self Driving is but the closest they seem to have is a L3 function

FSD is level 3? That’s news to me and, I suspect, Tesla themselves

 

[Mullermn]

Now, now, let’s not play games. The point is that flawed though FSD may be BMW do not currently have any system of the same complexity level. The closest thing they do have is this upcoming system so that’s what I’ve looked at the name for.

If, when it arrives, it’s actual L3 and not ‘L3, but only on sunny Tuesdays if you’re following a bus and wearing a bobble hat’ like Mercedes effort then we can talk about where it’s capability fits against FSD.

 

[Zilla91]

If, when it arrives, it’s actual L3 and not ‘L3, but only on sunny Tuesdays if you’re following a bus and wearing a bobble hat’ like Mercedes effort then we can talk about where it’s capability fits against FSD.

Do you even own a Tesla? The micky mouse assistance systems stop working if the sun is shining too brightly or if it’s night time

 

[Fursty Ferret]

Basically when moving left it doesn’t matter how big of a gap you leave when you have the situation if the vehicle you passed accelerates even slightly, the Tesla won’t move back in.

This happens quite often if you’re overtaking a line of cars and the slower one leading the pack gets affronted at being over taken by a Tesla and moves in, or disappears off into the distance and the cars behind accelerate.

So you either accept that you keep the Audi sitting on your bumper for another 20 seconds, or accelerate yourself to minimise the time in the overtaking lanes, or disconnect and do the job yourself. None of which are ideal.

There is no incentive whatsoever for Tesla to migrate single-stack to the rest of the world in the near term.

 

[MrBadger]

Basically when moving left it doesn’t matter how big of a gap you leave when you have the situation if the vehicle you passed accelerates even slightly, the Tesla won’t move back in.

I’ve had that a few times . Never got to the bottom of it. I don’t think its intended behaviour as it often coincides with the car seemingly giving up on lane changes all together.

Just a hunch, it may be to do with detecting steering wheel torque- one example, an out and back up the motorway, turning back at a junction. Return leg I ended up having to wrestle with the steering wheel to get it to detect it being held. Outbound, it was lane changing well until after overtaking one car and it then wouldn’t move back in. Almost as if only allows so many lane changes!

 

[Mullermn]

Do you even own a Tesla? The micky mouse assistance systems stop working if the sun is shining too brightly or if it’s night time

I do indeed, and while I have had the ‘camera blinded’ scenario I’ve also used the (4 year old) autopilot for many miles of driving, including at night.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

There is no incentive whatsoever for Tesla to migrate single-stack to the rest of the world in the near term.

I think "...no incentuve whatsoever.." is a bit strong

Isn't getting everyone onto the same codebase so you're not maintaining one for the US and one for the rest of the world a good enough reason?

Also, sooner you can get TV up and running,. stuff like TV parking sensors can be implemented and they can start learning fromn the mistakes it makes outside the US.

 

[Pandinium]

So I took this from an article- where does this stand with EAP?

Removal of 'Navigate on Autopilot'​

With the introduction of FSD Beta to highway driving, Tesla has now removed the 'Navigate on Autopilot' (NoA) feature. NoA was Tesla's term for the vehicle performing lane changes to follow your route. However, with the introduction of FSD Beta v11, this option became redundant and it has now been removed with this update.

 

[MrBadger]

So I took this from an article- where does this stand with EAP?

Removal of 'Navigate on Autopilot'​

With the introduction of FSD Beta to highway driving, Tesla has now removed the 'Navigate on Autopilot' (NoA) feature. NoA was Tesla's term for the vehicle performing lane changes to follow your route. However, with the introduction of FSD Beta v11, this option became redundant and it has now been removed with this update.

That makes sense in the context of FSD, but as you say, what about EAP? Is it an official statement? If so I wonder if it’s just a statement for those with FSD (incl FSD City Streets beta) and that there might be a different statement to those with EAP which will indicate that the now legacy ‘city streets’ terminology will be limited only to certain roads, ie just how NoA is limited to certain road sections now.

IE In the UK, there is even less of a difference between FSD and EAP than there is now. For me, I’ve actually turned off the only differentiator due to its awkward insistence of treating some overhead tunnel or gantry lighting as traffic lights and then wanting a timely indication that it is safe to proceed otherwise the car will start to stop.

 

[MrBadger]

I do indeed, and while I have had the ‘camera blinded’ scenario I’ve also used the (4 year old) autopilot for many miles of driving, including at night.

So you are aware that when you get camera blinded error that auto lane change functionality is much reduced, as it is in other poor visibility scenarios such as a bit of rain.

What version of EAP/FSD do you have?

 

[goRt]

So what are people's thoughts on wider deployment?

I'll put forward a strawman:
2-3 iterations in the FSDb pool then
Pushed to everyone in the USA
Meanwhile the trivial exercise of moving the RoW planners to support the single stack (this should be simple if the USA implementation was well designed)
Pushed to RoW by the summer
Any delays purely down to poor software design