Universal Mobile Connector (UMC) in Australia

[Vostok]

Using a retail extension cord off the shelf from say bunnings for domestic 10A and 15A applications is a really bad idea.

Do the maths mate. It certaintly isnt AS/NZ compliant on cable length runs for continous current at 15A. Those so called 15A extension cords are not rated continous. As far as I have seen when researching all this topics, there is no retail extension cord adaquete for the task meeting continous ampacity to the AS/NZ code.

That’s not correct. Certainly using light duty extension leads in that situation would be unwise, but heavy duty and extra heavy duty extension leads from Bunnings (or anywhere else, the shop is irrelevant) are absolutely fine to use with the UMC, and they are rated for industrial use and support the stated current draw continuously for an infinite length of time. Their conductors are the same size as what is used in house wiring. It’s only in the USA where they have this bizarre “80% of rated“ rule for continuous draw, not here.

I have used my heavy duty extension lead to charge overnight using the UMC at cabins and holiday houses a number of times and the cable, plug and socket have remained completely cold even after many hours of continuous use

 

[Vostok]

The other problem, what do you when you need a 32A 5 pin 3 phase extension as is common in remote areas?

then what do you do when you are at an untethered type 2 station and cant reach that?

What do you do when in a remote area at night in the rain and theres only a 20A 5 pin 3 phase socket at the showground with no 32A 5 pin 3 phase socket anywhere at all and you cant reach their 20A socket either?

They are all edge cases which have never happened to me in 4 years and I think it unlikely they ever will. And if they ever did happen, and I absolutely needed to charge, and there were no other public charging options within my remaining driving range, then my backup would be to trickle charge at 10A on my UMC at my unplanned overnight stay somewhere.

If your driving location and patterns means that such edge cases are in fact common - then sure, invest in the extra equipment you think you need.

 

[cafz]

Certainly using light duty extension leads in that situation would be unwise, but heavy duty and extra heavy duty extension leads from Bunnings (or anywhere else, the shop is irrelevant) are absolutely fine to use with the UMC, and they are rated for industrial use and support the stated current draw continuously for an infinite length of time. Their conductors are the same size as what is used in house wiring.

Note that labels like "heavy duty" don't have a well-defined meaning, and they don't always refer to electrical capability - frequently "heavy duty" is talking about the insulation / physical protection.

 

[Quickst]

In any case, it is wise to minimise the number of "extensions" of the EV charging equipment.

 

[Vostok]

Note that labels like "heavy duty" don't have a well-defined meaning, and they don't always refer to electrical capability - frequently "heavy duty" is talking about the insulation / physical protection.

Well, yes, you do need to go beyond the label and read the specification of the lead to check the conductor size and what it is rated for. Which is what I did, and I’ve had no issues using an extension lead (10 metres long) with my UMC.

You should always check the ends of any extension lead and the cable itself for any temperature rise in any application, and cease use immediately if anything feels warm.

 

[Vostok]

In any case, it is wise to minimise the number of "extensions" of the EV charging equipment.

Yes, one fit-for-purpose extension lead or one adaptor is the limit I would recommend. I have seen people use two extension leads plugged together to charge the growing number of EVs in my suburb that don’t have off-street parking

 

[OzTzlaBloke]

That’s not correct. Certainly using light duty extension leads in that situation would be unwise, but heavy duty and extra heavy duty extension leads from Bunnings (or anywhere else, the shop is irrelevant) are absolutely fine to use with the UMC, and they are rated for industrial use and support the stated current draw continuously for an infinite length of time. Their conductors are the same size as what is used in house wiring. It’s only in the USA where they have this bizarre “80% of rated“ rule for continuous draw, not here.

I have used my heavy duty extension lead to charge overnight using the UMC at cabins and holiday houses a number of times and the cable, plug and socket have remained completely cold even after many hours of continuous use

Hi mate. I had hoped if folk were interested in an informed discussion on this topic that they do the maths like I suggested Though I do appreciate that specific users needs might be different to mine like for example all good if someone needs only 3 meters in an extension and did the maths well ok. But, for me, Ive done the maths and I know, in the lengths I need there isnt a solution on shelves off the bat.

Im happy just to talk general stuff and enjoy the company of all you fine Tesla owners as fellow Aussies. I'm not invested one way or another on this topic - in some areas I do have some interests but to be fair in other cases where I might Id disclose those interests because more than anything this community is about fellow enthusiasts local to Aus. So please, Im not trying to have some lame your right / Im wrong / no your wrong thing or pushing something to benefit my position or similar

So the best way I think beyond anecdotes and other poor discussion points is say well, after huge debate and decades of history thats behind AS/NZS 3008 lets use that standard. Any standard we make up on this forum just doesnt have all those years being tested and adjusted like the AS.

Cable Size Calculator AS/NZS 3008 Cable Size Calculator AS/NZS 3008

Then do the maths like I did. For example at my bunnigs recon session I found tihs:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/cordtech-25m-caravan-reel_p0188889

Which has fancy impressive sounding words which are nonetheless meaningless like:

"Extra heavy duty cable (3 x 1.5mm²)" its not just heavy duty, its extra heavy duty come on down folks!

and

"CordTech's 25m Caravan Reel is durable, reliable and built to last. A convenient power solution for camping or caravans. Complete with 25 meters of extra heavy duty cable, this item is easy to wind up and store away for your next use."

Youd come to think this thing is the goodz. It aint by any means. Its 25 meters long. For 15 AMPS continous application.

Maths cuts through the BS

Result is 1.5mm @ 25m on 15A isnt compliant with the AS

Then it went on and on in my Bunnings recon. Like this 40m one they had:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-40m-2-5mm-15a-extra-heavy-duty-extension-lead_p0191739

This one has thicker cabling than the other one I saw in bunnings but again it fails the AS

Sometimes what we want to be true and how the world works just inst the reality.

I just love how the Juice Booster fixes this issue and fixes it while not being plug or tail specific its way superiour to using unsafe extension cords that as well are limited to specific plugs. Or, if your like me, use a type 2 extender and extend it that way without being held to a specific portable EVSE product.

 

[OzTzlaBloke]

If your driving location and patterns means that such edge cases are in fact common - then sure, invest in the extra equipment you think you need.

Yes. Defence Trials for example in literally nowheres ville I'm a captive of Defence Sector stuff

Plus I like to jaunt around with my lady friend too when I can. Sometimes it can be a thrill to see where you can go. Ive got my eye on camerons corner haha

 

[Vostok]

CordTech's 25m Caravan Reel is durable… Then it went on and on in my Bunnings recon. Like this 40m one they had…

What proportion of people need 25 metre or 40 metre extension leads for their EV’s mobile charger? Seriously… if that is a genuine need then yes of course you need to check it is fit for purpose. But you have been carrying on about this as if a 5m or 10m lead would have the same risks which is nonsense. You have had to go to extreme lengths and higher currents to illustrate any risks.

My lead is 10m long, has 1.5mm conductors, is rated for 10A, has no issue with voltage drop, and it could carry 22A or be double the length according to AS3008 and still be safe. It has been plenty long enough for any situation I have encountered in the past 4 years.

You can stop your hand-wringing .

 

[cafz]

If you want longer extension leads that are rated for continuous high current, "welding rated" lead from welding supply stores are one source.

 

[OzTzlaBloke]

Do the maths, otherwise its all just nonsense. My cottage doesnt have external domestic outlets so yes, minimum 22m extension if I were to do it that way over having a dedicated IP66 outdoor line also installed at the other residence. Theres nothing extreme about it where the only reason I looked into it was because Tesla said dont use extension cords so I wanted to understand why for my application, and for the cottage which is the only use Id have for a domestic GPO extension cord in the Tesla it has to be that length.

 

[OzTzlaBloke]

So on another topic. I noticed the Tesla App while I was charging reported 199v into the vehicle. Other times it reported 205v or 210v. Im going to get my meter (not a class 1 but still reasonable) onto it.

Anyone suspect Tesla's measurements as off?

Ill get to the bottom of it in a bit of measuring and different loads elsewhere at different times etc

 

[cafz]

I don't see any reason to doubt the voltage reported by the car, it's not like accurately measuring the voltage is a difficult technical problem.

 

[JonDarian]

So on another topic. I noticed the Tesla App while I was charging reported 199v into the vehicle. Other times it reported 205v or 210v. Im going to get my meter (not a class 1 but still reasonable) onto it.

Anyone suspect Tesla's measurements as off?

Ill get to the bottom of it in a bit of measuring and different loads elsewhere at different times etc

I have been surprised that my voltages have tended to be 220-230V. We have previously been told that the voltages in our already tend to be in the high side. That said, I have not been monitoring voltage as a rule, and only have the report from the car to go in at the moment. Maybe something has changed in my grid in the past few years without me knowing.

While I am limited to 8A on the UMC, I wouldn't mind a few extra volts to help deliver more kWh more quickly

 

[Quickst]

My voltage across all 3 phases are generally no less than 245V as indicated by the MY. At peak solar export at midday it can hit 250V at the MY
The distance from main board to the Tesla charge plug is 57m

I get 1-2V voltage drop according to electrician who installed the Gen3 when at 16A per phase

 

[OzTzlaBloke]

Thanks fellas. This is twisting my brains. Measured 221.5 true RMS at a random GPO in the house. Meanwhile that minute the Tesla is saying 208v. This is in near freezing conditions at 3 degrees C ambient without wind chill. The cable run for the dedicated circuit single phase 32A should never exceed a 1.4% voltage drop. appreciate I dont have a class 1 meter but nonetheless I can read true RMS AC. Im not exceeding the 63A mains breaker in total on the fuse box in any condition even with AC ducted on, dryer on, clothes washer on etc + the 32A going to the Tesla.

Im suspecting the supply as the issue. Need to fiddle around in the fuse box I think. Thoughts?

 

[paulp]

Not sure how fiddling around in the fuse box is going to gain you 30 volts

 

[Quickst]

Thoughts

Ask the grid operator to check the street voltage

 

[SL666]

Any idea how big your supply is? (the cable to the house)

Does the house voltage normalise when you aren't charging?

 

[Quickst]

Any idea how big your supply is?

See below...

Im not exceeding the 63A mains breaker

.....

A 63A 1N circuit is capable of 15kW continuous power draw without significant voltage drop as per Australian Standards - by design no more than 5% from point of supply to anywhere in the house. Any more than 63A draw will just trip the CB.

A 240V grid 5% drop will be 228V
A 208V at the charging plug during charging possibly means 219V at the supply side.

I am suspecting low street voltage to start off with, However, 219V is within Grid specs so the grid operator wont take any action.

So the question is what to do with the potential nerfed charging capacity.
219V = 7kW
A Nominal 240V = 7.68kW
Nerfed capacity 680W (9%)

I dont think anything can be done short of moving house, installing a battery or installing 3 phase
But for the sake of 680W?