Unveiling on Oct 17th

[mhan00]

I won't pay $8000 or whatever for autonomous driving in my Model 3 because I know I wouldn't use it often. Oh sure, it might be neat to mess around with for a while, but not if it costs $8000.

Plus I am a bit of a leadfoot, and it wouldn't drive the car how I want, so I'd be doing most of the driving anyhow.

I don't know how much the sensors cost, but I think that Tesla should only run the wiring and not include the sensors themselves. Then if someone upgrades to the autopilot, they can go to a Tesla store to have them put in. Tesla doesn't spend the extra money on unused sensors. Tesla saves money.

Just like these upgradeable batteries, it makes no sense to me for Tesla to spend the money on the extra parts and they aren't being used. A Tesla service center can swap in a bigger battery pack easily.

Really? You have no interest in being able to pop open a book, watch a movie, or just plain nap when you're on a long trip? Even if you love driving, no one likes dealing with traffic; being able to turn on autonomous mode and just sleep while the car handles all the stop and go aggravation doesn't appeal to you?

 

[dhanson865]

Sorry folks who have AP1.0 but you're vehicles are now obsolete. While "obsolete" sounds like a harsh word, it simply means "no longer produced or used; out of date." That's AP 1.0 as of today. But you still have really great vehicles.

Good post for the most part but you need to meet the word obsolescent and it's relative obsolescence.

AP 1 cars are still in use and will be used for several years to come. They are on the way out but not obsolete yet.

Obsolescence is the state of being which occurs when an object, service, or practice is no longer wanted even though it may still be in good working order. Obsolescence frequently occurs because a replacement has become available that has, in sum, more advantages compared to the disadvantages incurred by maintaining or repairing the original. Obsolete refers to something that is already disused or discarded, or antiquated.[1] Typically, obsolescence is preceded by a gradual decline in popularity.

 

[mhan00]

I wonder if the extra cameras can be used to provide Teslas with surround vision? That is a godsend when parking large cars in tricky spots. I hope so, but I'm not sure they would be oriented correctly.

 

[MP3Mike]

Germany is criticizing current auto-lane-changing because 16-foot range of ultrasonic cannot detect a speeding car from far behind.

With this new hardware, it can see 250 meters or 820 feet 360 degrees which is better than a LIDAR range.

No, take a look at the details on the Autopilot page:

• Main Forward Camera: Max distance 150m

• Narrow Forward Camera: Max distance 250m

• Wide Forward Camera: Max distance 60m (120 degree)

• Forward-Looking Side Cameras: Max distance 80m (90 degree)

• Rearward-Looking Side Cameras: Max distance 100m

• Rear-View Camera: Max distance 50m

• Forward Radar: Max distance 160m

• Ultrasonics: Max distance 8m

So you get a maximum 250m forward and 100m backwards.

 

[GregA]

“shadow mode,” essentially working virtually behind the scenes in order to demonstrate where it would’ve been able to avoid accidents that a person driving could not.

I don't think that's quite it.

Shadow mode works behind the scenes to learn how to drive, not demonstrate it could have done better.

Already we know the AP1 hardware is always on, and uploads street data to Tesla to crowd source a better map and the AP2 will take that further. You can imagine that having GPS data, published map data, information from multiple cars of exactly where they're driving, and radar and video, can build an enhanced map of the actual road. (and a smart system would notice if multiple cars drove on a road that the map said didn't exist and fix it.)

Then when a future car runs on the same road it can use the enhanced map to better recognise what is really there, what it should be seeing, and then determine if an unusual signal fits the map or is something to pay attention to.

Beyond just getting a map, Tesla refers to "the new Tesla-developed neural net for vision, sonar and radar processing software". A neural net will theoretically take sensor data and driving data, and learn how to drive like the person drove. Combine 100,000 people and you'd get some interesting learning.

I'm undecided if I prefer hideously complicated programming or neural net learning. Probably both... but which one gets the final say?

 

[MP3Mike]

I wonder if the extra cameras can be used to provide Teslas with surround vision? That is a godsend when parking large cars in tricky spots. I hope so, but I'm not sure they would be oriented correctly.

I am surprised nobody on the call asked that especially since the rear view camera is now used by AP, so I assume that all of the cameras could be displayed on the CID. The other question to ask is if they can be used as dashcams/security cams.

 

[Tam]

This is a question to any one who have already ordered their car and paid 2500 dollars for autopilot and car has yet to be made.

Will we have to pay more like 4000 dollars more for the add on for full autonomous driving? If anyone gets a response, please let us know. I am sure there are a few of us in the same boat. Thanks!

You'd better call up Tesla and ask.

But in the mean time, let's walk through the logic:

If you are still waiting for VIN, that means it is not on the assembly line yet.

And since Elon said as of today, all cars would have the new hardware.

That means your car will too.

The problem is you paid $2,500 for the old Autopilot and the new one costs $5,000 pre-delivery or $6,000 post-delivery.

So could it be that Tesla would software degrade the function of your new one to reflect the less capability of the $2,500 one?

And if you want Self-Driving, it requires the $5,000 pre-delivery or $6,000 post-delivery package in the first place.

That might mean you might have to pay for the new Autopilot first ($6,000-2,500=$3,500,) then additional another $4,000.

Hey! I just don't know. I am just thinking out loud!

 

[GregA]

I won't pay $8000 or whatever for autonomous driving in my Model 3 because I know I wouldn't use it often. Oh sure, it might be neat to mess around with for a while, but not if it costs $8000.

Would you rent your car out when you weren't using it, if it activated the autonomous hardware automatically?

 

[Tam]

...
I'm undecided if I prefer hideously complicated programming or neural net learning. Probably both... but which one gets the final say?

The old one is very dependent on lane markings. New one would learn how you drive first and would know how to drive on its own afterward even when without lane markings.

I would take the new and complicated one

 

[S'toon]

Would you rent your car out when you weren't using it, if it activated the autonomous hardware automatically?

And have to clean up someone's drunken vomit in the back seat? No thanks.

 

[gizmoboy]

I am surprised nobody on the call asked that especially since the rear view camera is now used by AP, so I assume that all of the cameras could be displayed on the CID. The other question to ask is if they can be used as dashcams/security cams.

In current cars, the front camera feed isn't routed through the display systems; just to the processing board, so there's no way to capture the feed. Could possibly be the same with the new cameras. But I would hope they route the video through the main computer and give you the option to store feeds temporarily as dash cam type things.

 

[Gregkeys]

In the call Elon did state that they are no longer installing AP1.

All cars coming out of the factory will include AP2 hardware, which answers one of my questions about our MX to be delivered in December. Now the question is if there will be an additional cost?

I'm actually leaning towards there not being a cost, I'm not sure they could legally raise our price after confirmation (please correct me if Im wrong) but the price for our configuration was a contractual agreement; just because our car now costs more money to produce shouldn't mean I should have to eat that cost.

In addition since we did pay for the autopilot option @ $2500 they have an obligation to provide at least that autopilot functionality which the best I can tell from the custom order page would be equal to Enhanced Autopilot @ $5000

 

[Dr Doom]

In the call Elon did state that they are no longer installing AP1.

All cars coming out of the factory will include AP2 hardware, which answers one of my questions about our MX to be delivered in December. Now the question is if there will be an additional cost?

I'm actually leaning towards there not being a cost, I'm not sure they could legally raise our price after confirmation (please correct me if Im wrong) but the price for our configuration was a contractual agreement; just because our car now costs more money to produce shouldn't mean I should have to eat that cost.

In addition since we did pay for the autopilot option @ $2500 they have an obligation to provide at least that autopilot functionality which the best I can tell from the custom order page would be equal to Enhanced Autopilot @ $5000

Yep I think they will let us keep the 2500 the same for the autopilot fee. But they will make us pay the extra 3000 dollars for the full self driving autonomous mode.

 

[mcghee33]

I don't think that's quite it.

Shadow mode works behind the scenes to learn how to drive, not demonstrate it could have done better.

Already we know the AP1 hardware is always on, and uploads street data to Tesla to crowd source a better map and the AP2 will take that further. You can imagine that having GPS data, published map data, information from multiple cars of exactly where they're driving, and radar and video, can build an enhanced map of the actual road. (and a smart system would notice if multiple cars drove on a road that the map said didn't exist and fix it.)

Then when a future car runs on the same road it can use the enhanced map to better recognise what is really there, what it should be seeing, and then determine if an unusual signal fits the map or is something to pay attention to.

Beyond just getting a map, Tesla refers to "the new Tesla-developed neural net for vision, sonar and radar processing software". A neural net will theoretically take sensor data and driving data, and learn how to drive like the person drove. Combine 100,000 people and you'd get some interesting learning.

I'm undecided if I prefer hideously complicated programming or neural net learning. Probably both... but which one gets the final say?

I understand your thought process here and while you are 100% correct in that the data will be used by Tesla's neuronet. Tesla also knows that they also will need to provide data to the government to convince them that autonomy is truly safer than humans. Elon has said this in the past and that the government is going want a boatload of miles driven with autonomous hardware before they will approve it. While AP1 started to provide some of that data, this new "shadow feature" will also allow Tesla to both improve the autonomy of the car AND provide data to the government to prove that autonomous driving is truly to a point (once it gets there) that it is safer than humans by showing when these cars get into accidents when the human is driving that the computer in the car would have made a different decision that would have avoided the collision.

 

[Tam]

No, take a look at the details on the Autopilot page:

• Main Forward Camera: Max distance 150m

• Narrow Forward Camera: Max distance 250m

• Wide Forward Camera: Max distance 60m (120 degree)

• Forward-Looking Side Cameras: Max distance 80m (90 degree)

• Rearward-Looking Side Cameras: Max distance 100m

• Rear-View Camera: Max distance 50m

• Radar: Max distance 160m

• Ultrasonics: Max distance 8m

So you get a maximum 250m forward and 100m backwards.

Thanks for additional info. I cited the blog but now this is much more detailed.

100 meters (300 feet) rearward is pretty decent!

 

[theboom1]

Lol even Elon used the term "shadow mode" like I've been saying. They said even when it's off the autopilot won't intervene but it will see when it could have intervened. So the next step is just make it so it does intervene when needed and then us people that want to drive can continue driving and we don't have to ban it and remove the steering wheel. Unless you want to. Maybe have a steering wheel and the ability to drive be an option although I'd prefer it to just be standard.

Really though this is great news. Standard autopilot hardware on a 35k car. I do have serious doubts they are going to be able to go from la to ny with no issues anytime soon.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

This is a question to any one who have already ordered their car and paid 2500 dollars for autopilot and car has yet to be made.

Will we have to pay more like 4000 dollars more for the add on for full autonomous driving? If anyone gets a response, please let us know. I am sure there are a few of us in the same boat. Thanks!

We need to start a new thread regarding this issue if the thread doesn't exist yet.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

This one should work:

AP 2.0 on submitted orders

 

[Ludus]

We ought to be seeing the production model snake charger pretty soon. They'd have to be installed at least at selected Superchargers across the country for an an autonomous cross country trip at the end of next year.

I'd think the Supercharger Valet Mode would be pretty high on the list of updates in 2017 once they are rolling out AP 2.0 features.

That's the mode to let the car use the Snake charger on it's own and go park elsewhere when it's done.

This functionality is important to people in big cities that park in commercial garages ( big issue in China). Their car could go charge on it's own at a snakecharger someplace in the parking garage and repark without owner involvement, making charging much more practical for people without private garages and chargers.

It's also important for L5 Mobility app fleets that have to be able to charge themselves as needed.

 

[J1mbo]

Interesting that cars delivered today with the new sensor suite will have no AP features at all, until at least December.