Unveiling on Oct 17th

[Tam]

I thought that LIDAR had problems in rain/snow/fog but that radar could see through it... That is one of the reasons Elon didn't want to use LIDAR. If course I really hoped that Tesla would have at least a rear facing radar...

In the phone conference, Elon Musk seemed not to understand what "inclement weather" meant. The reporter explained that as "condensation."

In the mean time, Ford says its LIDAR can work in a rainy day or snowy roads with no lane markings:

 

[robz]

Translation:
I just royally f'ed over every loyal tesla owner who purchased their vehicles prior to October 19th misleading them that their 150K car with every option available would be upgradeable.

That's the thanks we get for spending the extra money tacked on to the model x for future development of Tesla that won't benefit us.
They could have been up front and told people to wait if they wanted to spend the extra money to have the new hardware and gave a discount to those who didn't want to. That would be the ethical approach.
The whole scenario wreaks. It's like a penny stock company recruiting investors and the when they have their quota sell all their shares.
What a paradox. You buy a brand new, upgradable car, with every single option available and before it arrives it obsolete. If that's the case I just lost all respect for the owner and the company. How's that for resale? Will they even bother updating the old hardware brand new cars?
You can bet they've already turned the page on that chapter and their loyal customers who kept them from going belly up.

 

[diamond.g]

What website? I don't see a tesla website with that price on it.

I was being sarcastic (badly apparently).

 

[Tam]

Translation:
I just royally f'ed over every loyal tesla owner who purchased their vehicles prior to October 19th misleading them that their 150K car with every option available would be upgradeable.

Historically, Tesla has not been very fond about retroactively upgrading your car (with very rare exceptions.)

I remembered in the old days, when those who did not pay for GPS navigation system and wanted to pay for it afterward, they were told to trade in theirs.

 

[diamond.g]

That's the thanks we get for spending the extra money tacked on to the model x for future development of Tesla that won't benefit us.
They could have been up front and told people to wait if they wanted to spend the extra money to have the new hardware and gave a discount to those who didn't want to. That would be the ethical approach.
The whole scenario wreaks. It's like a penny stock company recruiting investors and the when they have their quota sell all their shares.
What a paradox. You buy a brand new, upgradable car, with every single option available and before it arrives it obsolete. If that's the case I just lost all respect for the owner and the company. How's that for resale? Will they even bother updating the old hardware brand new cars?
You can bet they've already turned the page on that chapter and their loyal customers who kept them from going belly up.

From what I can tell, Tesla has been really reluctant to do hardware upgrades on cars that have already been sold. Why would you assume they would do so now?

THIS is why Tesla may be forced to do the usual model year designation. Folks like knowing how long they have before their car is made 'obsolete'. Also this is a pretty good showing for GM as to what not to offer OTA upgrades for. If folks had to get the "2017" Model S to get the new hardware suite and new features I don't think people here would be nearly as mad.

 

[Tam]

...Folks like knowing how long they have before their car is made 'obsolete'...

By now, owners should realize that Tesla's improvement is continuous.

If you want the latest one, then you may never buy one because it is not a latest one!

You might want to settle to buy what you need for now and if there's a new Model revision tomorrow that you want badly, just trade yours in.

 

[mhan00]

That's the thanks we get for spending the extra money tacked on to the model x for future development of Tesla that won't benefit us.
They could have been up front and told people to wait if they wanted to spend the extra money to have the new hardware and gave a discount to those who didn't want to. That would be the ethical approach.
The whole scenario wreaks. It's like a penny stock company recruiting investors and the when they have their quota sell all their shares.
What a paradox. You buy a brand new, upgradable car, with every single option available and before it arrives it obsolete. If that's the case I just lost all respect for the owner and the company. How's that for resale? Will they even bother updating the old hardware brand new cars?
You can bet they've already turned the page on that chapter and their loyal customers who kept them from going belly up.

What the hell are you talking about? Tesla has never said cars would be retrofittable. They've never even implied it. The only people talking about retrofits for future AP tech were bloggers and hopeful owners who found the wiring harness in the mirror. Bloggers and owners speculating is hardly an endorsement or statement by Tesla that retrofits would be available. Common sense would have told anyone that retrofits were highly unlikely given how busy Service Centers are already.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I don't see anything concerning the reveal of the M3.

This was very weird.

 

[mhan00]

I don't see anything concerning the reveal of the M3.

This was very weird.

Enhanced AP and future autonomy was the reveal about the M3. All M3 cars will have the new hardware installed, but obviously consumers will have to pay to unlock the software. Musk said there will be a part 3 reveal to talk about the interior of the car.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Enhanced AP and future autonomy was the reveal about the M3. All M3 cars will have the new hardware installed, but obviously consumers will have to pay to unlock the software. Musk said there will be a part 3 reveal to talk about the interior of the car.

But that's not a M3 reveal. That's a reveal for every car.

 

[diamond.g]

But that's not a M3 reveal. That's a reveal for every car.

Well in a way it does help explain why they chose to go with the single screen. Assuming they don't actually put one in.

As far as I can tell, they won't release options pricing (and options) until the Design Studio is up, so all that is left really is the interior.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Well in a way it does help explain why they chose to go with the single screen. Assuming they don't actually put one in.

As far as I can tell, they won't release options pricing (and options) until the Design Studio is up, so all that is left really is the interior.

What? I don't understand. It doesn't explain anything about the M3 to me. I expected some version of AP on the M3 - Screen or not. Dashboard or not.

The need for MS screens haven't been eliminated. I guarantee you that the new MS's will have the same screens they had yesterday. I don't understand what are saying.

 

[diamond.g]

What? I don't understand. It doesn't explain anything about the M3 to me. I expected some version of AP on the M3 - Screen or not. Dashboard or not.

The need for MS screens haven't been eliminated. I guarantee you that the new MS's will have the same screens they had yesterday. I don't understand what are saying.

You expected the Model 3 to have Level 5 autonomy?

 

[ttupper92618]

That's the thanks we get for spending the extra money tacked on to the model x for future development of Tesla that won't benefit us.
They could have been up front and told people to wait if they wanted to spend the extra money to have the new hardware and gave a discount to those who didn't want to. That would be the ethical approach.
The whole scenario wreaks. It's like a penny stock company recruiting investors and the when they have their quota sell all their shares.
What a paradox. You buy a brand new, upgradable car, with every single option available and before it arrives it obsolete. If that's the case I just lost all respect for the owner and the company. How's that for resale? Will they even bother updating the old hardware brand new cars?
You can bet they've already turned the page on that chapter and their loyal customers who kept them from going belly up.

In February of one year I bought a new Honda. 6 months later, the new models hit, and they now had a rear facing camera and passenger side camera as standard (something that was a lot more money previously), and also featured a large center display, a vastly improved media system, as well as multiple USB ports for drivers and passengers.

Would it have been reasonable for me to be angry and complain that Honda had obsoleted my vehicle? Should I have expected to be able to upgrade my vehicle to include all of those new features - should I have expected to be able to put a new dashboard in with a big screen, run wiring... install new body panels with integrated cameras?

You use the term "upgradeable", but Tesla has never to my knowledge stated that the car's hardware is upgradeable - only the software systems. There is a lot you can do with software, but one thing you obviously cannot do is upgrade physical systems using 1's and 0's. It seems very unreasonable to me to expect that older hardware in integrated systems will be upgradeable in the same fluid manner that software is. Moreover, Tesla is not taking something away from you - they are delivering what you paid for. I totally understand the disappointment, and I feel for you. However, your expectation is not one you would harbor for any other automotive purchase, so why this one?

 

[Model 3]

Really? You have no interest in being able to pop open a book, watch a movie, or just plain nap when you're on a long trip?

No, I love driving, especially on long trips ... and I hate to be a passenger - whenever it is with a human driver or otherwise.

Even if you love driving, no one likes dealing with traffic; being able to turn on autonomous mode and just sleep while the car handles all the stop and go aggravation doesn't appeal to you?

Luckily my driving habits/uses seldom put me into this situations, so no it isn't worth a lot to me to be able to turn on autonomous mode this few times.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Translation:
I just royally f'ed over every loyal tesla owner who purchased their vehicles prior to October 19th misleading them that their 150K car with every option available would be upgradeable.

I've never heard of Tesla saying they would retrofit new AP hardware. I think it was just wishful thinking on your part.

 

[electracity]

No, I love driving, especially on long trips ... and I hate to be a passenger - whenever it is with a human driver or otherwise.


Luckily my driving habits/uses seldom put me into this situations, so no it isn't worth a lot to me to be able to turn on autonomous mode this few times.

Perhaps Tesla will introduce pay per use. "You are about to crash. Say 'Yes' to activate crash avoidance. You will be charged $10 per for this one time service".

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

That's the thanks we get for spending the extra money tacked on to the model x for future development of Tesla that won't benefit us.
They could have been up front and told people to wait if they wanted to spend the extra money to have the new hardware and gave a discount to those who didn't want to. That would be the ethical approach.
The whole scenario wreaks. It's like a penny stock company recruiting investors and the when they have their quota sell all their shares.
What a paradox. You buy a brand new, upgradable car, with every single option available and before it arrives it obsolete. If that's the case I just lost all respect for the owner and the company. How's that for resale? Will they even bother updating the old hardware brand new cars?
You can bet they've already turned the page on that chapter and their loyal customers who kept them from going belly up.

Yep and now you're stuck with a really crappy car. You should sell, and buy a Bolt if you want cutting edge.

 

[ttupper92618]

What the hell are you talking about? Tesla has never said cars would be retrofittable. They've never even implied it. The only people talking about retrofits for future AP tech were bloggers and hopeful owners who found the wiring harness in the mirror. Bloggers and owners speculating is hardly an endorsement or statement by Tesla that retrofits would be available. Common sense would have told anyone that retrofits were highly unlikely given how busy Service Centers are already.

It's simply not reasonable to expect to be able to upgrade the hardware of most modern cars - this is especially true for the car's core sensor / safety systems because these involve sensors integrated into body panels, wiring harness changes, new electronics, and more. While it might be technically possible to do with enough effort, it essentially entails re-manufacturing portions of the car, and that complexity means it isn't feasible due to cost. Elon has stated it would cost more than buying a new car, and I don't find that surprising at all.

People would not get this bent out of shape if their 2016 audi didn't have lane-keeping and the 2017's did... nor would they expect to be able to change it. For some reason, having the model year designation suddenly helps these matters 'make sense' to people... but the underlying reason applies regardless; complex integrated systems are hard to change once they are built.

 

[Model 3]

Perhaps Tesla will introduce pay per use. "You are about to crash. Say 'Yes' to activate crash avoidance. You will be charged $10 per for this one time service".

Crash avoidance is according to Elon a standard security feature and included at base price - whenever I want it or not.