[Update: It happened] Track Mode not happening for P3d-

[ModelNforNerd]

Were they going to give the media outlets the Aero wheel version to beat it up to test track mode? Not a chance, and you know that. Even if you don't LIKE the Tesla supplied parts, it doesn't change the fact that they are suited for the track than the 35K Model 3 brakes and wheels.



I am sure you or I would have communicated expectations better. That we can agree on for sure.

1.) No track mode is going to piss 3P- off.
2.) 5K price drop on top.

It was a bit much which is why Elon got driven off of Twitter. I've asked a few times now actually. Why doesn't Tesla enable it if its just a check mark? I've speculated on legal reasons why which is factually correct but people are not liking that explanation.

I too tweeted Elon my annoyance.

I bet I get a less ambiguous answer than you did. Tell me more again about SEO and my old postings? You are reaching in your attempts to clown. But my feelings are a bit hurt, so why don't I go console myself with some TRACK MODE driving?

Happy to try and achieve clarity for others and if you benefit, so be it.

Aawww.... You're WRONG, so you moved the goalposts.

How adorable.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Were they going to give the media outlets the Aero wheel version to beat it up to test track mode? Not a chance, and you know that. Even if you don't LIKE the Tesla supplied parts, it doesn't change the fact that they are suited for the track than the 35K Model 3 brakes and wheels.



I am sure you or I would have communicated expectations better. That we can agree on for sure.

1.) No track mode is going to piss 3P- off.
2.) 5K price drop on top.

It was a bit much which is why Elon got driven off of Twitter. I've asked a few times now actually. Why doesn't Tesla enable it if its just a check mark? I've speculated on legal reasons why which is factually correct but people are not liking that explanation.

I too tweeted Elon my annoyance.

I bet I get a less ambiguous answer than you did. Tell me more again about SEO and my old postings? You are reaching in your attempts to clown. But my feelings are a bit hurt, so why don't I go console myself with some TRACK MODE driving?

Happy to try and achieve clarity for others and if you benefit, so be it.

Yes. Thank you for helping me get the Premium interior, genius.

 

[MXWing]

they've already put their disclaimer on your initial activation of Track Mode, cool story.

Interesting how the verbiage doesn’t cover economy wheels or 3rd party equipment/modifications.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Interesting how the verbiage doesn’t cover economy wheels or 3rd party equipment/modifications.

View attachment 376452

interesting how it does cover driving on a closed circuit track only, right after you gave a holier than thou long winded diatribe.


don't wreck it while track mode is engaged. would be a real shame to see your car all over the FUD news channels with another "reckless feature" added.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Interesting how the verbiage doesn’t cover economy wheels or 3rd party equipment/modifications.

View attachment 376452

it's interesting that no mention of modifications or smaller wheels or brakes is made...as in, they aren't excluded. weird, right?

 

[12yan]

I don’t see much said about the brakes and torque steering. The upgraded brakes seem pretty fundamental to track mode. Enabling track mode for brakes that are going to melt into a puddle and tires that are totally unsuited for the track seems like a bad idea. At the least it would cause some embarrassment for the brand when stories about Tesla’s falling apart in track mode start coming out. The P3+ is already borderline for the track.

 

[MXWing]

interesting how it does cover driving on a closed circuit track only, right after you gave a holier than thou long winded diatribe.


don't wreck it while track mode is engaged. would be a real shame to see your car all over the FUD news channels with another "reckless feature" added.

Thanks for the concern. I’ll endeavor to not give Tesla a reason to pause the rollout for you.

Bright side is if I do wreck, I can look for an AWD Model 3 car so I can start lobbying my greviences from that angle.

It’s the same car as a 3P- with just sw limited acceleration right?

it's interesting that no mention of modifications or smaller wheels or brakes is made...as in, they aren't excluded. weird, right?

It is weird why it isn’t just released by now if track mode + economy wheels and brakes were of no concern to Tesla.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I don’t see much said about the brakes and torque steering. The upgraded brakes seem pretty fundamental to track mode. Enabling track mode for brakes that are going to melt into a puddle and tires that are totally unsuited for the track seems like a bad idea. At the least it would cause some embarrassment for the brand when stories about Tesla’s falling apart in track mode start coming out. The P3+ is already borderline for the track.

how embarrassed is Honda when kids mod CIvics and melt them? How upset does Audi get when their drivers use Launch Control?

they're not.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Thanks for the concern. I’ll endeavor to not give Tesla a reason to pause the rollout for you.

Bright side is if I do wreck, I can look for an AWD Model 3 car so I can start lobbying my greviences from that angle.

It’s the same car as a 3P- with just sw limited acceleration right?



It is weird why it isn’t just released by now if track mode + economy wheels and brakes were of no concern to Tesla.

I love how you smugly keep calling them economy brakes and tires. Please post pics when you wreck, and if you can't...please have someone else post on your behalf.

 

[MXWing]

I love how you smugly keep calling them economy brakes and tires. Please post pics when you wreck, and if you can't...please have someone else post on your behalf.

If they go on the 35K Model 3, yes I consider them economy brakes and tires. If they go even cheaper, we'll call these the mid-market brakes/tires.

Do you want my daily driving logs with track mode enabled? I'll forward them as part of the TPS reports.

Reminds me why I wondered Tesla didn't just offer a retrofit to 3P+ if a car was going to be in the shop for:

Model 3 20" Sport Wheel and Tire Package
or
Model 3 20" Sport Wheel and Winter Tire Package

Slap on pedals, badge, spoiler, brake pads, calipers, new firmware.

 

[caskater47]

If they go on the 35K Model 3, yes I consider them economy brakes and tires. If they go even cheaper, we'll call these the mid-market brakes/tires.

Do you want my daily driving logs with track mode enabled? I'll forward them as part of the TPS reports.

Reminds me why I wondered Tesla didn't just offer a retrofit to 3P+ if a car was going to be in the shop for:

Model 3 20" Sport Wheel and Tire Package
or
Model 3 20" Sport Wheel and Winter Tire Package

Slap on pedals, badge, spoiler, brake pads, calipers, new firmware.

That's an excellent question. I wonder the same thing. I'm sure they have the upgraded brakes and calipers on hand. Nothing in PUP *should* be difficult logistically for a retrofit. It *should* be cheaper than the 5k refund check. And there is precedent for after delivery hardware upgrades already (AP HW3). Nothing about this car makes much sense honestly.

 

[kbecks13]

how embarrassed is Honda when kids mod CIvics and melt them? How upset does Audi get when their drivers use Launch Control?

I dont really want to step into the middle of this conversation, but i can't help myself so here we go...

This is very different than most other cars and turning off things like stability control. Track Mode is very aggressive with how it uses the brakes to act as a Limited Slip Differential. I've tracked my car about 5x times now and already need new rear pads, i literally cannot do another HPDE without metal on metal contact and regen is my best friend right now.

I have heard through the grapevine of people who work at Tesla that 1) they specifically had to increase regen from 0.2g to 0.3g with track mode to save the brakes because without that extra 0.1g they were REALLY getting cooked and 2) Tesla is working on new brake pads and testing them out now (Randy Pobst mentioned this to someone).

I know this isn't likely what you want to hear, but you've gotta think - why isn't Tesla releasing Track Mode for the P3D-? it's not about cannibalizing sales since that car model isn't offered anymore, therefore it really must be something related to the hardware on the car, no?

 

[kbecks13]

I'm sure they have the upgraded brakes and calipers on hand

No, they don't - that's what i'm trying to explain Go check the EPC parts site, they do not have replacement rear brake pads for the PUP cars yet. I know because i desperately need them and can't get anything! This plus the news from Randy Pobst that they are testing new pads highly suggests that they are going to roll out new "track ready" pads for the P3D, and i bet the P3D- as well. Once they do that, time for Track Mode - but that's just my $.02

 

[happyzod]

That's an excellent question. I wonder the same thing. I'm sure they have the upgraded brakes and calipers on hand. Nothing in PUP *should* be difficult logistically for a retrofit. It *should* be cheaper than the 5k refund check. And there is precedent for after delivery hardware upgrades already (AP HW3). Nothing about this car makes much sense honestly.

P3D+ cars have larger rotors as well. It would be Rotors+Caliper+Pads+Wheel+Tire.

 

[caskater47]

I dont really want to step into the middle of this conversation, but i can't help myself so here we go...

This is very different than most other cars and turning off things like stability control. Track Mode is very aggressive with how it uses the brakes to act as a Limited Slip Differential. I've tracked my car about 5x times now and already need new rear pads, i literally cannot do another HPDE without metal on metal contact and regen is my best friend right now.

I have heard through the grapevine of people who work at Tesla that 1) they specifically had to increase regen from 0.2g to 0.3g with track mode to save the brakes because without that extra 0.1g they were REALLY getting cooked and 2) Tesla is working on new brake pads and testing them out now (Randy Pobst mentioned this to someone).

I know this isn't likely what you want to hear, but you've gotta think - why isn't Tesla releasing Track Mode for the P3D-? it's not about cannibalizing sales since that car model isn't offered anymore, therefore it really must be something related to the hardware on the car, no?

That's nothing here has a big warning and waiver can't fix. "Enabling Track Mode will cook the standard brakes. Enable only if you have added track capable brakes or want to cook them in ten minutes. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK."

 

[MXWing]

P3D+ cars have larger rotors as well. It would be Rotors+Caliper+Pads+Wheel+Tire.

Most of the differences can be found here:

Brake System
https://epc.teslamotors.com/#/systemGroups/47397

Suspension
https://epc.teslamotors.com/#/systemGroups/47401


There's a problem with the display to where it shows Model S when you click the links but its the same catalog if you navigate via the main site.

 

[kbecks13]

That's nothing here has a big warning and waiver can't fix. "Enabling Track Mode will cook the standard brakes. Enable only if you have added track capable brakes or want to cook them in ten minutes. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK."

I somewhat agree, and they certainly do that with Track Mode on the P3D+, but at a certain point the end-user will question "is this thing even designed to be used like this?" and for the P3D- the answer is "No". You can put tons of disclaimers and warnings, but when they find out that the brakes are destroyed after 1 track day they won't be very happy!

The other alternative is to say "here's this software, but you can't use it with your stock car" and that begs additional questions like "why the heck is this software available if i can't even safely use it on my stock car" and also opens the door for legal troubles or at least attempted lawsuits.

 

[mswlogo]

Why doesn't Tesla just enable the checkbox to download it to 3P-?

A few months back @MP3Mike and I were discussing the marvel that Tesla STILL keeps track of Autopilot features on AP2 hardware. Not enhanced autopilot mind you, but Autopilot. This only affected deliveries over 2.5 months at best. Late Oct through Dec 2016.

Because it’s not the same hardware.

The TrackMode is surely tuned for the better Brakes. It knows how fast it can slow a wheel. It knows how fast it might cook the pads or rotors. The brakes might even have more or better temperature sensors.

If they just blindly enabled it, on P3D- it could be dangerous or harmful to the hardware. Because it’s making the wrong assumptions.

It could be tuned to the tire behavior as well.

So they could surely do this same tuning for the P3D- brakes and tires. But does it make sense to offer a Track Mode tuning for essentially a non Track Configuration?

Tesla would never offer something to cover any third party work.

Now they could expose those parameters more generically of how grippy your tires are and how much stopping power your brakes have. And a variable for the amount of cooling. They could do this on any trim. But I’m not sure they would go that far. But they sure would attract a lot of buyers at all levels if they did. The range of the parameters could even be different per trim.

I don’t think it’s just “turn off abs” or “turn off traction control”.

They have to take on liability and folks screaming that it didn’t do what they thought it would do. And like anything, it will probably get abused.

Personally, as much as I’d like it for fun. I’d much rather they focus on the numerous bugs. Unless that’s a completely independent team that could be working on just Track Mode. They could certainly give other Trims some love.

 

[caskater47]

I somewhat agree, and they certainly do that with Track Mode on the P3D+, but at a certain point the end-user will question "is this thing even designed to be used like this?" and for the P3D- the answer is "No". You can put tons of disclaimers and warnings, but when they find out that the brakes are destroyed after 1 track day they won't be very happy!

The other alternative is to say "here's this software, but you can't use it with your stock car" and that begs additional questions like "why the heck is this software available if i can't even safely use it on my stock car" and also opens the door for legal troubles or at least attempted lawsuits.

I agree with your reasoning but I don't agree with your conclusion. Lots of cars don't have Track ready hardware but have features that are intended for use on a track (e.g. Launch Mode).

The fact is they still marketed this car towards a certain type of buyer, buyers with expectations of being able to track the car. Now if they put parts incapable of being used on a track on any of the Performance models (which we know they did) there may be someone that will try to sue them for fraud. Whether they release TM or not because no where in the description of the car ever included a difference on track ability and the original PUP description had language that did not clearly give any indication of functional differences.

It would also greatly surprise me at this point if they offer any hardware upgrade packages for Stealth of any kind. Even if they are working on new pads I don't think they'll ever come to the Stealth. If there was any indication otherwise internally I would have expected them to tell me to hold off or that they were workinng on it but they told me the exact opposite.

In reality the Stealth trim should have never existed, or it should have never existed without the upgraded brakes being included, even if it meant them needing to come up with a cheaper wheel for the non PUP version. They made a horrible mistake with this car. They rushed it out too soon, they made terrible decisions after it was released and until they can make everyone completely whole I am certain they will continue to pay for it in the future.

 

[kbecks13]

It would also greatly surprise me at this point if they offer any hardware upgrade packages for Stealth of any kind. Even if they are working on new pads I don't think they'll ever come to the Stealth. If there was any indication otherwise internally I would have expected them to tell me to hold off or that they were workinng on it but they told me the exact opposite.

I'm thinking that they might be working on track pads for ALL Model 3's and then they can sell Track Mode for $2-3K as pure software to everyone. Would definitely give them some cash flow and since it doesn't change 0-60 time of the car, it shouldn't really impact sales of higher priced vehicles. But this is more a dream

I agree the P3D- was rushed, it's pretty crappy how they've handled it and i wonder how this would've been different if Fred owned one...