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Update: Model X has a single charger, but only 48A capable

Discussion in 'Model X: Battery & Charging' started by FlasherZ, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    #1 FlasherZ, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
    [Note: This is an update to this thread: Model X has single 72A charger ... I made this a separate topic because it's a distinct change from the other thread. Mods can modify the other thread's title and merge if required...]

    If you are preparing to install charging options for Model X, this update may change what you install (in terms of circuit size, etc.)

    I have been considering how do to a build-out for a second car at maximum charging speeds, and so I've been exchanging e-mails with folks within Tesla on recommendations I can make around home electrical infrastructure for a 2 Tesla household (and I have the PoCo scheduled to be out here tomorrow to pull my meter so I can make the necessary changes). I received word today (from what I consider a very reliable source) that the 72A charging capability we've heard of earlier in the process is not the case, and that Model X will ship with a single charger capable of charging only at 12 kW, or 48A single phase.

    This means that if you're installing a Wall Connector for Model X only, you can install it on a 80A circuit, for the 64A charging setting. It allows you to use a smaller gauge wire (#4, although the difference isn't much) and reduces the impact on load calculations for your home panel. Older HPWC's have the 60A circuit option that can be selected, newer ones do not.

    For European Model X's, I assume this means 3ph x 16A maximum (11 kW) as well but that wasn't confirmed to me. I will add another update if I get it. Note also that this doesn't impact Supercharging, which bypasses the onboard charger to deliver a fast charge when you're on the road.

    As I understand it, the updates were sent to the support teams (inside sales and delivery) today.

    My perspective: I understand moving to a single charger - the complexity of a dual-charger setup was causing some problems. What I don't understand is the 48A limitation - why not build as high as possible to the Wall Connector's capability? I'm wondering (speculation here) if this is one of those supplier/parts problems, and if they're going to use Model S chargers (or at least same technology from same supplier) as a result. Perhaps this is going to be the Model X's "A-pack", where initial cars ship with 48A and they revise it later for higher current. These last points are purely my own thought - no information to back it up other than the circumstances.
     
  2. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    Wow. I had started the previous thread, and was told 60A charging. Perhaps what my source meant was 60A wall power. I was fine with a 60A single charger, but 48A single phase is slightly disappointing. What about people like NigelM who were told clearly 72A?

    People with DSs -- check in and let us know.
     
  3. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    Immensely helpful, thanks FlasherZ!
     
  4. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    Uh, this is a problem. My EV pricing plan super off peak window is only 4 hours. 11.5kW won't charge a 90kWh battery from 10% to 90% in 4 hours.
     
  5. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    I am puzzled as to why Tesla would hobble the AC charge capability of the Model X. I got Dual Chargers in my S and have really appreciated getting 20kW charging at home and sometimes on the road.
     
  6. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    I just tweeted Elon. Maybe he'll respond.

    1eb7c2c313b362de715259874a84e830.jpg
     
  7. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    I suspect it's because very few people ordered dual chargers, they were complex and had service issues, and so they wanted to reduce complexity. I think (as I speculated in the original post) that they probably shot for a charging capability that was close to the dual charger Model S capability (hence 72A), but for whatever reason, it didn't pan out and they went to a contingency.

    I'll take my Model X now with 48A and the possibility of an upgrade later, versus another delay. :)
     
  8. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Maybe they will offer a dual charger option down the road, or a swap out once they get the higher amp single charger going. I imagine a number of scenarios where you would want the higher charger. I guess we shall see.
     
  9. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    Il take 48A now, but I'll be really annoyed if 72A comes out later and there is no free retrofit. Charging outside of the super off peak window is outrageously expensive. I figured it out once, and it was something like charging for an hour outside of the window negated the savings of a typical charge over night. I would be better off with normal pricing.
     
  10. ptsagcy

    ptsagcy Member

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    This really sucks - a huge step backward. I realize that it doesn't affect SC charging but it sure as hell affects home charging and destination charging on road trips. At the very least this has made my lease/buy decision for me. I will be leasing since I think the negative feedback is going to push them to offer higher capacity onboard chargers. That, together with the likelihood of significantly larger batteries over the next few years will very possibly tank the resale value of the older cars. So, I will be leasing, assuming I go through with the deal.
     
  11. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    #11 FlatSix911, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
    Most people have at least an 6 hour window for off-peak charging...more than sufficient for a recharging a 90kWh battery to 80%(12kW x 6hrs)= 72kWh.

    Battery Zero Mile protection buffer.png
     
  12. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    What the *$#, Tesla!

    You increase the battery size but decrease the charging rate?! Three years of delays, a much larger body, and they couldn't leave a space in Model X for a second charger?! Long charging times have to be the biggest criticism of EVs today and you guys just took a big step back!

    99.9% of my travel is without Supercharger access. Now I'm going to need four nights to travel what used to take three.

    Tesla seems hellbent on getting me to cancel my X reservation.
     
  13. Beryl

    Beryl Member

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    This disappoints. :( I hope Elon will weigh in on this soon because most of us expected at least the charging capability of the MS.

    One of the primary reasons I reserved the MX instead of the MS was for comfortable family road trips. If I traveled in heavy SC areas, I'd be less concerned but according to the 2015 SC map, I will have difficulty getting from point A to B in a timely manner. The 2016 SC map looks promising, however. I hope there are many more destination chargers in the works.

    Since I reserved in February, I have some time for this to get sorted. If things don't look up, I must reconsider as well. :(
     
  14. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    Wasn't there some text on the website that indicated Model X would have 72 amp charging? I can't find the link in the other thread. If this is true I think it really does show that the car was not ready for the Sept 29 launch as Elon's car indicated 72 amps max and everyone was being told 72 amps at that time. They must have run into problems with either production of the 72 amp charger or fitting it into the vehicle on the production line.
     
  15. hill

    hill Member

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    Not sure why this is still a sticky, once 72 amp was revealed - and thus much of the bitterness &/or hand wringing posts above are put to bed. Even the issue or #4 versus #3 wire was a non-issue considering the teeny price difference. On a collateral note, our EVSE is less than 3 feet from the main service panel - so our upgrade from 40 amp will be a snap.
    .
     
  16. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    The report of 48A max charge rate is more recent than the 72A information.
     
  17. hill

    hill Member

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    Really - ok ...
    .
     
  18. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Not doubting you, but what issues? I have the dual chargers and have never (to my knowledge) had an issue with it. Wouldn't configure my Model S any other way.
     
  19. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    How often would you be depleting a 90kWh battery to 10% in a day?
     
  20. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    You might want to read the top post in this thread - it's an update with information I received from Tesla yesterday (and the source is not inside sales or delivery specialists).
     

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