Update to the Supercharger network policies

[brianman]

How much does free supercharging really matter to someone who can afford a P100dl?

I calculated it's potentially worth as much as $2000/yr for me on my P85D. Depends a lot on how much they charge for 'overage'.

 

[Topher]

do the HPWC and car communicate serial number & vin?

Seems unlikely given that they are presumably in relatively controlled locations, and potentially are used by many different vehicles.

I have no idea how superchargers do their authentication, but if I were doing it, it would be by encrypted interrogation/response.

Thank you kindly.

 

[TexasEV]

BTW - do the HPWC and car communicate serial number & vin? Given the car is connected to Tesla, it could provide a way to charge for HPWC use? A little income would motivate places to install HPWC devices. As long as it is reasonable and based on actual cost of electricity.

No it doesn't.
If you can't choose a hotel with destination charging (always my first priority in choosing a hotel) you can at least pick a hotel that will let you plug into an outdoor 120V outlet. Do you have the 5-20 UMC adapter? Almost all commercial 120V outlets are 20A. Adding 50 or 60 miles overnight can make a big difference, but it's worthwhile even to plug into 15A. For example I've plugged into 120V in the Marriott Rivercenter garage when I stayed there for a conference.

 

[stopcrazypp]

What motivation does Tesla have for doing a complete about face? How would it benefit their business model.

They have a destination charger program, specifically for this purpose. Charge while you shop, charge while you eat, charge while you sleep away from home.

Tesla had actually added city superchargers in certain cities already (beginning in markets like London, China, Hong Kong, etc) to address people who don't have practical access to home or work charging at all (and destination chargers would not be a practical alternative for this case). So this had been going on for a while already (although not really as much in USA).
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1061077/

What Tesla had been trying to discourage are local people who have access to home charging (or can trivially install it) from using superchargers and making them unavailable for the long distance drivers who actually need it. However, with this new paid scheme, Tesla can start making city superchargers and the cost to charge will naturally discourage locals who have other alternatives.

 

[Sharkbait]

If you can't choose a hotel with destination charging (always my first priority in choosing a hotel) you can at least pick a hotel that will let you plug into an outdoor 120V outlet.

I last stayed at the Holiday Inn in Solvang for a couple days, drove up to Morro Bay and back, charged fully twice during our stay using one of the hotel's two Tesla chargers, underground garage to boot. Got well over 100 kW of power over two days, all included in the stay

 

[winfield100]

I predict the following:

• Tesla will divide superchargers to two categories: Long distance superchargers and city superchargers. Grandfathered cars will continue using long distance superchargers for free. However, if they want to use city superchargers, they will need to buy credits for those.
• When you trade in a grandfathered car, Tesla will disable free supercharging before they sell it on as a CPO.
• All Model 3 cars will also get 400 kWh/year free credits.
• Unused credits will roll over to next year.
• There won't be any additional price to pay for supercharging hardware. After January 1st, all Tesla cars including the Model 3 will come with supercharger hardware included at no additional cost.
• Tesla will build city superchargers everywhere. Eventually, there will be more city superchargers than long distance superchargers.
• When you sell a grandfathered car to a private party, free supercharging will stay with the car.
• Idle fees will apply to grandfathered cars as well. If you leave your car plugged in more than 10 minutes after supercharging is completed, you will need to pay a fee for that. That means soon (before Dec 10th) Tesla will announce that even grandfathered car owners will need to enter a credit card to their myTesla account.

@Troy congratulations, you may be a star on seeking alpha
http://seekingalpha.com/article/402...79f:542771cd058a41479ec415939a5c395f&uprof=46

 

[Sharkbait]

Tesla will build city superchargers everywhere. Eventually, there will be more city superchargers than long distance superchargers.

Wow, sounds like a Tesla insider. All I can say is they better get going on the SC build out. The end of the year is what, 47 days away? We also need a destination SC installed in Kayenta, AZ and a few more throughout the southwest and west Texas - please!

Idle fees will apply to grandfathered cars as well. If you leave your car plugged in more than 10 minutes after supercharging is completed, you will need to pay a fee for that.

I proffered 15 minutes earlier but 10 minutes sounds even better.

 

[pdxrajiv]

Would Tesla humor existing owners who wants to upgrade to a newer car by transferring their free-charging-forever?
What do people think?

Eventually my current car would be too old to keep driving and having to start paying for charging would discourage me from upgrading(cheap me). In 10 years, they would be selling so many cars yearly that they could hardly care to create incentives for grandfathered 100K owners/enthusiasts. But one can hope.

 

[MP3Mike]

Would Tesla humor existing owners who wants to upgrade to a newer car by transferring their free-charging-forever?
What do people think?

Highly unlikely. As that would create a weird car that was purchased prior to the cut-off date but still didn't have the unlimited charging. If they did I would hope that they charge a transfer fee. (Like maybe $5,000, but it may be unnecessary if they offer an option/package that contains unlimited Supercharging.)

How often do you Supercharge? How much over the 400kWhs/year do you think you will use?

 

[Troy]

@winfield100, I don't really care about that website. They are just trying to create drama. Tesla has lots of super smart people. I'm sure they will figure things out.

@Sharkbait, my prediction is based on a few data points I came across here and there. THIS video I watched two years ago was insightful. I think people in China and Hong-Kong would be very happy if Tesla opened there paid city superchargers. Over time, those will spread to other locations. Basically, city superchargers will be needed everywhere where people live in apartments and park their cars on the street. Another data point was Tesla's ambitious sales targets for the future. (Source) I can see Tesla selling 500K or a million Model 3s per year but I don't think a few million is possible without city superchargers.

 

[Drone Flyer]

Hi everyone, I just read the post,

I call the headquarter, and was told that current owner is not affect by the change!... Phew we are still free ( forever?)

I ask them is the (forever; for prior owner ever going to be taken away, because we all bought into a Tesla because of "free charger forever". Elon has said that over and over

"That is not correct, that is something our legal team can answer, I can't say anything other then what the website has stated!"

does anyone have a creepy feeling that Tesla will eat their word and we all will get screw! and current owner will someday have to pay like everyone else?

Yes, this will come back to haunt Tesla as basically, they lied to us by saying "Free for Life" Supercharging.
To say I am livid is an understatement even though I already have a legacy car. I'm concerned that future buyers are going to go elsewhere.
One of the main temptations to buying a Tesla was Elon saying free for life! Now they've changed that.
Double dipping is what I call it as the high cost of the car incorporates the SC network as we were told.
I am disgusted with Tesla's about face and I fear they could go bankrupt over this.
I can see the model 3 users having to pay because the car is a third the price of a Model S.
Tesla will have to recant this statement before it's too late. You can't double Dip Elon!
It was wrong of you to change your mind about charging after you kept emphatically saying "Free for Life"!
This is wrong what you are doing!
Yes I know it will curb SC abuse but so what? You promised free for life and I expect "Free for Life' at least on the S and X.
Double dipping is no way to go!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

How often do you Supercharge? How much over the 400kWhs/year do you think you will use?

I think 1000 kWh/year would cover my long distance travel as that would be two trips back to visit family. Flying isn't an option because there aren't direct flights or local airports and would end up taking almost as long as driving the 500+ miles.

I was planning on doing more road trips in the future. Fortunately my first Tesla will be grandfathered in...

 

[Drone Flyer]

Highly unlikely. As that would create a weird car that was purchased prior to the cut-off date but still didn't have the unlimited charging. If they did I would hope that they charge a transfer fee. (Like maybe $5,000, but it may be unnecessary if they offer an option/package that contains unlimited Supercharging.)

How often do you Supercharge? How much over the 400kWhs/year do you think you will use?

400 kw I would use up immediately. I do lots of road trips and that measly amount would cover one trip out of about 30!

 

[JRP3]

Yes, this will come back to haunt Tesla as basically, they lied to us by saying "Free for Life" Supercharging.
To say I am livid is an understatement even though I already have a legacy car. I'm concerned that future buyers are going to go elsewhere.
One of the main temptations to buying a Tesla was Elon saying free for life! Now they've changed that.
Double dipping is what I call it as the high cost of the car incorporates the SC network as we were told.
I am disgusted with Tesla's about face and I fear they could go bankrupt over this.
I can see the model 3 users having to pay because the car is a third the price of a Model S.
Tesla will have to recant this statement before it's too late. You can't double Dip Elon!
It was wrong of you to change your mind about charging after you kept emphatically saying "Free for Life"!
This is wrong what you are doing!
Yes I know it will curb SC abuse but so what? You promised free for life and I expect "Free for Life' at least on the S and X.
Double dipping is no way to go!

Your rant makes no sense. Product specs change all the time. Old Tesla's came with pre paid SC, new ones do not, end of story. On what planet is this lying, double dipping, or anything else? This will not cost Tesla customers nor lead to bankruptcy.

 

[TexasEV]

Yes, this will come back to haunt Tesla as basically, they lied to us by saying "Free for Life" Supercharging.
To say I am livid is an understatement even though I already have a legacy car. I'm concerned that future buyers are going to go elsewhere.
One of the main temptations to buying a Tesla was Elon saying free for life! Now they've changed that.
Double dipping is what I call it as the high cost of the car incorporates the SC network as we were told.
I am disgusted with Tesla's about face and I fear they could go bankrupt over this.
I can see the model 3 users having to pay because the car is a third the price of a Model S.
Tesla will have to recant this statement before it's too late. You can't double Dip Elon!
It was wrong of you to change your mind about charging after you kept emphatically saying "Free for Life"!
This is wrong what you are doing!
Yes I know it will curb SC abuse but so what? You promised free for life and I expect "Free for Life' at least on the S and X.
Double dipping is no way to go!

I don't understand what you're so upset about. If you own a Model S or X now you continue to have free supercharging. Free something for life always means for the product's life no matter what the product is, not your life. Do you think Tesla promised free supercharging for the remainder of a 20 year old's life of perhaps owning a dozen more cars over the next 60 years? How could a company do that?

If you want free supercharging for the rest of your life, you'll just have to continue driving your current Tesla for the rest of your life.

 

[jelloslug]

Yes, this will come back to haunt Tesla as basically, they lied to us by saying "Free for Life" Supercharging.
To say I am livid is an understatement even though I already have a legacy car. I'm concerned that future buyers are going to go elsewhere.
One of the main temptations to buying a Tesla was Elon saying free for life! Now they've changed that.
Double dipping is what I call it as the high cost of the car incorporates the SC network as we were told.
I am disgusted with Tesla's about face and I fear they could go bankrupt over this.
I can see the model 3 users having to pay because the car is a third the price of a Model S.
Tesla will have to recant this statement before it's too late. You can't double Dip Elon!
It was wrong of you to change your mind about charging after you kept emphatically saying "Free for Life"!
This is wrong what you are doing!
Yes I know it will curb SC abuse but so what? You promised free for life and I expect "Free for Life' at least on the S and X.
Double dipping is no way to go!

So explain how you are not getting free for life? Tesla never said supercharging was going to be free forever, just for the people that buy cars now.

 

[Sharkbait]

Basically, city superchargers will be needed everywhere where people live in apartments and park their cars on the street. Another data point was Tesla's ambitious sales targets for the future. (Source) I can see Tesla selling 500K or a million Model 3s per year but I don't think a few million is possible without city superchargers.

Totally agree. We need more SC'ing now. So as early adopters help to get this show on the road and mainstream, the incentives, perks, and benefits will slowly become history. Yes, SC'ing capability needs to be located in the city, just like so many ICE gasoline stations. Gasoline isn't free, so why should electrons be free, much less forever? Face it, there is no turning around now.

If I did not already own a Tesla, I would probably still buy one (providing SC'ing was ubiquitous), knowing that my eMPG would still be much better than all comparable vehicles running on gasoline, not to mention far cheaper to refuel as it were. As others have said, if you can afford such a nice BEV, why in hell would you complain about refueling it for a third of what gasoline cost for an ICE? It's peanuts!

Hotel destination chargers should become far more common as a magnet for attracting BEV owners. Restaurants are also wise to install charging hookups, where a customer can spend one hour for lunch or dinner and walk out to his/her Tesla that now has another 30 more miles or so of range. That makes my grandfathered Tesla that much sweeter.

 

[Sharkbait]

Eventually, nobody will have free SC'ing. I think they'll get you at total battery pack replacement time. I wouldn't have a problem selling my S75 to acquire a then mainstream 100 kW Tesla for the range at a more reasonable price.

 

[FlatSix911]

Yes, this will come back to haunt Tesla as basically, they lied to us by saying "Free for Life" Supercharging. To say I am livid is an understatement even though I already have a legacy car. I'm concerned that future buyers are going to go elsewhere.

• One of the main temptations to buying a Tesla was Elon saying free for life! Now they've changed that.
• Double dipping is what I call it as the high cost of the car incorporates the SC network as we were told.
• I am disgusted with Tesla's about face and I fear they could go bankrupt over this.
• Tesla will have to recant this statement before it's too late. You can't double Dip Elon!
• It was wrong of you to change your mind about charging after you kept emphatically saying "Free for Life"!
• This is wrong what you are doing! Yes I know it will curb SC abuse but so what?
• You promised free for life and I expect "Free for Life' at least on the S and X. Double dipping is no way to go!

Nonsense. Your logic is deeply flawed and your post sounds like a childish rant ...
Charging is still free for life if purchased before 2017 ... otherwise you pay. Simple really

 

[Drone Flyer]

So explain how you are not getting free for life? Tesla never said supercharging was going to be free forever, just for the people that buy cars now.

No, Elon said free for life, and he didn't imply just current owners.