JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Maybe that was a one off event for some reason, but the majority of evidence we have is that options stay with the car.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Update to the Supercharger network policies
- Thread starter Bluechip
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Tesla Inc.
I predict the following:
- Tesla will divide superchargers to two categories: Long distance superchargers and city superchargers. Grandfathered cars will continue using long distance superchargers for free. However, if they want to use city superchargers, they will need to buy credits for those.
- When you trade in a grandfathered car, Tesla will disable free supercharging before they sell it on as a CPO.
- All Model 3 cars will also get 400 kWh/year free credits.
- Unused credits will roll over to next year.
- There won't be any additional price to pay for supercharging hardware. After January 1st, all Tesla cars including the Model 3 will come with supercharger hardware included at no additional cost.
- Tesla will build city superchargers everywhere. Eventually, there will be more city superchargers than long distance superchargers.
- When you sell a grandfathered car to a private party, free supercharging will stay with the car.
- Idle fees will apply to grandfathered cars as well. If you leave your car plugged in more than 10 minutes after supercharging is completed, you will need to pay a fee for that. That means soon (before Dec 10th) Tesla will announce that even grandfathered car owners will need to enter a credit card to their myTesla account.
Last edited:
Garlan Garner
Banned
lol. there is nothing extraordinary about this.
Tired of people defining things on their terms in here. You must do this. This is extraordinary. I'm not easily bated.
Garlan Garner
Banned
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Not trying to bait you, I just prefer data to speculation. You are making a claim which is the opposite of anything we've seen, so yes, that is extraordinary. If you can't back up your claim I have to discount it, simple as that.
Maybe. Depends on what Tesla does to the CPOs Jan 1. There are currently lots of the pre-refresh cars still on their website, so if they turn it off for all CPOs next year, then there would be pre-refresh no AP cars without unlimited supercharging out there.
The communication I have gotten from my sales rep implies they are going to the new plan for CPOs in Jan, but admittedly, Tesla sales staff aren't always the best sources.
Garlan Garner
Banned
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
Why on earth would Tesla build "city" superchargers? The stated and only purpose of supercharges is for long distance travel. They explicitly do not want people using them for around-town use. They have taken repeated steps over they last few years to discourage local supercharger use. There is no reason they would build more.
I agree - or at least agree to that it seems likely - the rest of your predictions, but not this.
I think they had two (or more) choices to decide between - building up a "fastcharger" city supercharger like network and charge a fee from all on this new network. Some of the existing superchargers may have had to be transfered to this "fastcharger" network. OR end unlimited superchargers.
They have clearly ended up on the last one.
Garlan Garner
Banned
The initial purpose was long distance. yes. What would be wrong with Tesla changing that statement?
I wonder what Tesla would do if lets say.....Mercedes launches thousands of city charging stations for free for Tesla users as well as Everyone.
Tesla is fully aware that people use their SC's for local charging. - no matter what Tesla's desire / intentions and rules are. The majority of these folks doing this are who I would personally consider to be "well off".
Last edited:
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
What motivation does Tesla have for doing a complete about face? How would it benefit their business model.
They have a destination charger program, specifically for this purpose. Charge while you shop, charge while you eat, charge while you sleep away from home.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Let Mercedes install a massive network of "Free To Tesla" SC's all over the place - as they are subsidized to do so. Tesla's response would be what? - to its customers' 400kWh free limit offering?
Competition drives changes. Competition disintegrates Monopolies. Our government likes to subsidize against companies with monopolies.
I'm behind Tesla all the way... I only responded because you asked.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
I'm not familiar with what Mercedes is doing, but I still fail to see the financial incentive to either Tesla or the customer. Am I really going to drive to some point, potentially out of my way, and wait in or near my car for upwards of 30 minutes just to "fuel up?" In the ICE world, no one goes out of their way to find a gas station; unless supercharge stations are on every corner, supercharging is a hassle. And it still takes longer than getting gas.
Free? Not really. Once supercharge credits are used up users will have to pay. Of course right now no one knows what Tesla will be charging, but it's probably safe to assume it will be significantly more than obtaining electricity at one's home or office.
So, it's less convenient for the customer and costs more than destination charging.
Supercharge stations are several orders of magnitude more expensive to install than destination chargers. Tesla could distribute and install hundreds of destination chargers for the cost of installing one supercharge station. They already give away the equipment to businesses. Perhaps covering some or all of the installation costs would accelerate adoption. Even then, it would be less expensive than putting in "local" supercharge stations.
Makes road trips easier, esp weekend trips. Take for example the trip I'm considering in March (hopefully with a new Model S). It's a very easy trip on paper...
- Austin -> San Antonio (south side)
- 4 days, 3 nights.
- Can't find any hotels with destination charging that weekend.
- Likely hotel is between 10-20 miles from place we are visiting (kids sporting activity)
- Will have to be at place morning and evening. Afternoons at hotel.
- With an S90, I can get there with 60% charge departing with 100%
- Add a stop at SC in San Marcos, I could arrive with 70-80%.
- I'll use 10% each trip back to the hotel, 20% round trip.
- I'll need 8 round trips from location to hotel.
- I'll need 30% to get back to San Marcos
If I could find destination charging it would be easy. If there was charging at the location I'm going it would be easy. If I could swing by a super charger 2x during the weekend it would be easy.
As it stands, it looks like I'd have to ask someone (or uber) to a chargepoint. Not exactly convenient. Not much of a marketing opportunity to the person that's giving me a ride either. Not sure what my wife will think either...
A charger within the city, even at nominal cost would make this an easy trip. As it stands, might be a rental car trip.
I'm also looking at a similar trip to Houston. Did find a hotel with an HPWC (hopefully it works and isn't iced). That trip will be easy.
Tesla has complete control of SpC locations. They have offered the destination charging and it helps, but SpC would be totally under their control.
Well, aside from a tremendous lack of property ownership, occasionally challenging permitting issues, grid supply constraints, capital availability, etc.
I'd argue that destination charging is quite a bit less onerous on Tesla and much easier to accomplish.
Last edited:
On the surface I would think your right. But given 5 destination chargers in San Antonio, I'm not quite sure. Now perhaps that is due to no significant Tesla presence in San Antonio. I do see that Austin is doing much better. But San Antonio is a large city.
I'm a bit surprised that Tesla hasn't partnered with a big hotel chain. Cut a deal for 4 of the new communicating HPWCs at each location and funded some of the install cost.
I do feel that moderately priced ($100/night) hotels would look at $8-$15 cost per fill-up cost vs the benefit of the extra business and question the ROI.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Agree, some city based fast charging infrastructure could be useful for city dwellers without access to electrified parking spaces.
Tesla does pay for hardware for destination charging. Anecdotally, they have paid install cost in some locations as well. At least, I remember reading that at one point.
The luxury chains mostly seem to be covered with HPWCs. Four Seasons and Ritz have them at all of the locations I've visited. A tier or two down, Westin Hotels are also widely covered. And at less expensive tiers, I've charged at many Best Westerns and Holiday Inn Express locations. Only one of those locations (HIE at Williams, AZ) charged me for usage. $20, which I personally found steep, but it worked out for me. The Best Western in Williams may be installing them soon.
As far as I know, there is no VIN handshake with the HPWC.
Similar threads
