I don't think so. Seems most are putting off the order for AWD or the base model. I don't think there are that many in Canada anyways.
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US Federal $7,500 Electric Vehicle Credit Expiry Date By Automaker
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I don't think so. Seems most are putting off the order for AWD or the base model. I don't think there are that many in Canada anyways.
I picked my new Tesla from San Francisco Delivery hub this Monday, the room was full of cars and it was after 6 pm in the evening.
I spoke with a representative at a Tesla store today. She said they were expecting to hit the 200,000th U.S. delivery this month, but she was figuring they were stretching things out until the beginning of July so the full federal tax credit would last through December.
The rep is a bit misleading here, stretching things out until beginning of July, maybe yes. Full federal tax credit until Dec, no.
Keep in mind after first quarter the tax credit will be phased out, the 2 quarters afterwards will be half the credit, and six months after that, 25% of that.
The full credit will be in effect for the remainder of the quarter in which the 200,000th vehicle is delivered in the U.S. and then one additional quarter. So if they deliver their 200,000th U.S. Tesla on July 1st, then the full federal tax credit would indeed extend until December 31st.
Thanks for the correction, just found the following from the IRS web site and confirmed that full credit will be applied to the quarter afterwards as well, which makes it by Dec 31 as emupilot indicates.
Plug In Electric Vehicle Credit IRC 30 and IRC 30D | Internal Revenue Service
"Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit (IRC 30D) Phase Out
The qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit phases out for a manufacturer’s vehicles over the one-year period beginning with the second calendar quarter after the calendar quarter in which at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009) (“phase-out period”). Qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are eligible for 50 percent of the credit if acquired in the first two quarters of the phase-out period and 25 percent of the credit if acquired in the third or fourth quarter of the phase-out period. Vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are not eligible for a credit if acquired after the phase-out period."
SW2Fiddler
We Are Cognitive Dissidents
I don’t know... I heard that website was full of fanboys.
Anyone know the origins of the $7500 tax credit ? I am guessing this credit was voted in Congress and passed as law for IRS to allow this.
Why cannot the 200k limit be increased further to 300k etc.. ? This current rule can be amended. After all, it is good for the environment and promote other fuel alternatives.
Why cannot the 200k limit be increased further to 300k etc.. ? This current rule can be amended. After all, it is good for the environment and promote other fuel alternatives.
per https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-in-electric-vehicle-credit-irc-30-and-irc-30d
"Section 30D originally was enacted in the Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 amended section 30D effective for vehicles acquired after December 31, 2009. Section 30D was also modified by the American Taxpayer Relief Act (ATRA) 2013 for certain 2 or 3 wheeled vehicles acquired after December 31, 2011 and before January 1, 2014."
"Section 30D originally was enacted in the Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 amended section 30D effective for vehicles acquired after December 31, 2009. Section 30D was also modified by the American Taxpayer Relief Act (ATRA) 2013 for certain 2 or 3 wheeled vehicles acquired after December 31, 2011 and before January 1, 2014."
ℬête Noire
Active Member
Even if the majority party wasn't in general philosophically and culturally opposed to EVs, the current dysfunctional state of Congress means they'd struggle to pass gas much less an amendment like that.
Whether they should, what's the most sound policy, is another question.
Consider the time it was proposed: the late second term of G. W. Bush. GM had just introduced the Volt concept. Also the company was having troubles quietly. So they lobbied the government into the EV Tax Credit legislation which was part of a larger energy bill. It made for a nice bi-partisan legislation that would happen and quietly assist the sales of some new technology. At that point, Tesla was nothing compared to GM and Nissan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_the_United_States
EVNow
Well-Known Member
This is not really the case. As long as a legislation is not opposed by powerful interests (either economic or political), bills still get easily passed. We just don't hear about them.
I think the best way to do this (in a revenue neutral way) would be to make it a combined pool of 2 Million instead of 200k per manufacturer. The current rule favors late comers - and the combined pool would help American manufacturers.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
Setting aside the question of whether or not that's accurate, how is such applicable here.
Remember, the tax bill last year at one point had a line item killing the entire rebate program outright.
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
I expect the limit to be increased beyond 200k in December when Congress votes on a lot of end of year items.
This year GM, Tesla, Ford and Nissan will either surpass 200k or come very close. None of them want to give VW, Audi, MB, BMW, Honda, Toyota or Chrysler an advantage in the EV space.
We have already seen GM lobbying to increase the limit.
This year GM, Tesla, Ford and Nissan will either surpass 200k or come very close. None of them want to give VW, Audi, MB, BMW, Honda, Toyota or Chrysler an advantage in the EV space.
We have already seen GM lobbying to increase the limit.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
Eh, they had the chance to kill the IRC 30D credit last December and didn’t.Doubtful given the current administration ...
American manufacturers have spent a lot of $ developing BEV and PHEV. They want every cent of govt sponsored credits to help sell cars.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
Tesla obviously is about to trigger and GM is very likely to by end-of-year (and if not then in Q1 2019). However do you have a source on that claim for Ford & Nissan?
This seems legit for current numbers: Federal EV Tax Credit Phase Out Tracker By Automaker - EV Adoption
I'm not sure about the reliability of their their years-out estimates but while Ford has broken the 100K lifetime but their sales of their current qualifying vehicles are the toilet, sub-1000 units/month (only something of an effort to address ZEV requirements?). Coupled with Ford's past strategic heavy betting against EVs, so nothing in the pipeline and now they cutting back product development costs to the point they aren't working on sedan designs at all, that's why the above is estimating 5-6 years for them to trigger the 200K mark.
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FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Interesting reading ... Tesla is 6,000 Unit Sales From the Magic 200,000 Federal Tax Credit Milestone
OMG! Tesla is 6,000 Unit Sales From the Magic 200,000 Federal Tax Credit Milestone - EV Adoption
As the countdown to 200,000 now begins in earnest, we can almost – but not quite – state with certainty when the phase-out will begin of the Federal EV tax credit for both Tesla and GM buyers. First, let’s see where we think Tesla sits after the month of May:
My analysis using estimated sales figures from InsideEVs and Wikipedia for early Tesla Roadster sales, pegs Tesla’s US sales total at approximately 194,400 units. This would mean – if the InsideEVs numbers are close to accurate – that Tesla needs to deliver less than 6,000 units in the US during the month of June. With most of Model 3 “production hell” issues behind Tesla, there is a good chance that in June around 15,000 Model 3s could roll off the assembly line at the Fremont factory.
The month of June (end of Q2) has long been one of Tesla’s best months for US sales. In 2017, Tesla sold a combined 4,550 Model S and X models and 5,845 in 2016. In my forecast above I’ve assumed a reasonable 4,500 deliveries of Models S and X, leaving roughly only 1,100 Model 3s needed to be delivered in the US to reach the 200,000 threshold.
Neither Tesla or Elon Musk have tipped their hat definitively on whether they will prioritize non US customers during June and move deliveries of the Model 3 to Canada and perhaps even some Model S and X deliveries outside the US if demand warrants. If Tesla, however, does not manage deliveries geographically in June then they should definitely surpass the 200,000 milestone.
In the long-term, which quarter (Q2 versus Q3) Tesla hits 200,000 sales has little significance. But if you are a short-range Model 3 reservation holder, the level of the tax credit, if any, still available when you can purchase your car might be an important factor in your decision to move forward or not.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
Yes, explaining how it's not entirely clear if Tesla's 200K trigger will happen in Q2 or in Q3. The article is also not two years old, either.
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They don't know and they don't want to call it but Tesla's motive of pushing Canada up can't be explained if Tesla isn't delaying the trigger to Q3. I will be watching InsideEV's sales estimate like a hawk and if they only update it AFTER Tesla publish the official number.
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