Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software

[thegruf]

VW - How much NOx get emitted before the cars are fixed and what health implications?

I followed one of these soot belching (admittedly clearly faulty) monstrosities earlier today in traffic and was wondering what the hell I was breathing.

Put simplisitcally how many ppl (statistically) will die and/or acquire respiratory complications in the next 16 months due to the excess NOx pollution if VW manage to fix the affected vehicles in 2016 as they have stated?

... should the affected vehicles be taken off the road?

 

[mspohr]

VW withdraws EPA application for 2016 diesels

Horn to offer apology in testimony to lawmakers, but no timeline for fix

VW withdraws EPA application for 2016 diesels

I think the problem is that they CAN'T fix them. If they could, they wouldn't have resorted to installing the "defeat" software.
I'm sure there are a lot of VW engineers pulling out their hair and a lot of very nervous execs.

 

[scottf200]

I followed one of these soot belching (admittedly clearly faulty) monstrosities earlier today in traffic and was wondering what the hell I was breathing.

Put simplisitcally how many ppl (statistically) will die and/or acquire respiratory complications in the next 16 months due to the excess NOx pollution if VW manage to fix the affected vehicles in 2016 as they have stated?

... should the affected vehicles be taken off the road?

Probably takes a while to be affected...

 

[nwdiver]

NO2 is incredibly nasty stuff...

 

[nwdiver]

This is like applying a tourniquet to your neck to stop the bleeding...

 

[FlatSix911]

I think the problem is that they CAN'T fix them. If they could, they wouldn't have resorted to installing the "defeat" software.
I'm sure there are a lot of VW engineers pulling out their hair and a lot of very nervous execs.

At this point VW is considering two options to fix the emissions issues:

1. Reprogram the software to reduce power/fuel delivery = unhappy owners and more lawsuits
2. Add Urea injection (Ad-Blue) to reduce NOX emissions = $500 cost per vehicle and more lawsuits

 

[30seconds]

Mueller(VW CEO) says VW will cancel or delay nonessential investments

Christian Horner, Dietrich Matescithz and the Red Bull F1 team gonna be pi$$ed.

Puts into question how much $ / effort they will be put into their "tesla killers"

 

[ggr]

At this point VW is considering two options to fix the emissions issues:

1. Reprogram the software to reduce power/fuel delivery = unhappy owners and more lawsuits
2. Add Urea injection (Ad-Blue) to reduce NOX emissions = $500 cost per vehicle and more lawsuits

Is the cost to add Ad-Blue capability, after the car has been built, delivered, corroded, whatever really only $500? I have a lot of trouble believing that number (but admit I haven't researched it). You need a tank for the stuff, piping to get it to the new box where it gets mixed with the exhaust, which has to be inserted into the exhaust piping, a warning light to tell you when it's run out, ...

I think the only feasible fix is to the software, and take the performance hit with some sort of cash settlement.

 

[Chris TX]

...Labor leaders are pushing VW to reel in research and development spending to protect jobs, while management wants personnel expenses reduced as well, people familiar with the situation said before Mueller’s statement.
...

Does that mean union bosses? Yeah, those guys know how to run a company

The future of VW and any other auto company is electrics. If these union bosses care about the future of the company and the employment of their members, they need to support, not stifle R&D instead of turning VW back into a normal American car company with no diesels and no electrics. "Clean Diesel", E-Tron, Porsche 918, were things that made VAG special in the eyes of consumers. Once those go away, so goes the company.

 

[brianman]

jerry33, adiggs, mspohr, nwdiver - If it could be kept civil, the discussion you guys are having would be a very interesting thread.

 

[nwdiver]

This was posted on TDIclub forum...

 

[mspohr]

Is the cost to add Ad-Blue capability, after the car has been built, delivered, corroded, whatever really only $500? I have a lot of trouble believing that number (but admit I haven't researched it). You need a tank for the stuff, piping to get it to the new box where it gets mixed with the exhaust, which has to be inserted into the exhaust piping, a warning light to tell you when it's run out, ...

I think the only feasible fix is to the software, and take the performance hit with some sort of cash settlement.

The Ad-blue system also has a special catalytic convertor (SCR catalyst) which needs to be added to the exhaust system. The urea mixture is injected into the exhaust before the SCR cat and the cat does its magic to convert the NOx to CO2 and N2.
I'm sure that the SCR cat is not cheap.

 

[David99]

Probably less than the few trucks in this video alone.
ROLLIN COAL DIESEL insanity!!!! #one - YouTube

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... should the affected vehicles be taken off the road?

There are millions of ICE vehicles on the road that don't meet current emission standards. They don't have to because they were registered before new regulations were implemented. Should they be taken off the road?

VW can fix the affected cars by switching the software to 'test mode'. Why should the cars be trashed?

What I would like to know is how much difference is there really between the affected cars in 'test mode' and 'normal mode'. We know the software changed the profile to meet the emission regulations, but so far I have not seen any tests showing by how much these car exceed the limits when driven normally. Yes it's bad that VW cheated, but we need to find out what the actual environmental damage is.

 

[Ingineer]

This was posted on TDIclub forum...

Awesome! Oh, the humanity!

 

[beeeerock]

The Ad-blue system also has a special catalytic convertor (SCR catalyst) which needs to be added to the exhaust system. The urea mixture is injected into the exhaust before the SCR cat and the cat does its magic to convert the NOx to CO2 and N2.
I'm sure that the SCR cat is not cheap.

View attachment 97119

I think that is essentially the system used on the EA288 engine, which apparently is able to meet the Euro6 standards. It's evidently in at least some 2015 models (the wife's A3 I think) sold in North America, but is on the initial list of non-compliant cars. For the most part, the EA189 appears to be the big problem, but at the moment the EA288 is also guilty by association... or might be. I'll be interested to see if the EA288 turns out to be compliant, relatively easy to make compliant, or simply a big problem too.

I read somewhere that VW actually licensed the Mercedes BlueTec system, but dropped it when the scapegoat engine designers joined the team...

 

[dhrivnak]

I bet the manufacturing of replacement cars would put far more emissions in the air. Yes it needs to be fixed but taking them off the road is not the answer.

 

[gene]

BERLIN - German prosecutors carried out searches Thursday in connection with their investigation of the Volkswagen emissions scandal, seeking material that would help clarify who was responsible for the cheating.
The raids were carried out Thursday in Wolfsburg, where VW has its headquarters, and at other locations, prosecutors in nearby Braunschweig said in a statement.
They said the aim of the searches was to "secure documents and data storage devices" that could identify those involved in the alleged manipulation and explain how it was carried out.
German prosecutors conduct searches in Wolfsburg, elsewhere in Volkswagen emissions probe

 

[3mp_kwh]

Awesome! Oh, the humanity!

I see what you did, there.

 

[gene]

Log In - The New York Times

WASHINGTON — The president of Volkswagen’s American unit came under withering criticism on Thursday at a congressional hearing looking into the automaker’s admission that for years it knowingly skirted federal emissions standards.
Michael Horn, the automaker’s top official in the United States, repeatedly expressed remorse over the company’s deception, but lawmakers were looking for more than an apology for its use of a so-called defeat device that fooled regulators during emissions testing.
“You haven’t revealed how the defeat device affects the engine, why it was installed and how it was able to evade emissions tests,” said Diana DeGette of Colorado, the top Democrat on the subcommittee. “You haven’t revealed when and how the engines equipped with this defeat device will be fixed. And you haven’t told us whether that fix will affect the fuel economy or performance of the vehicles.”

 

[adiggs]

.... “You haven’t revealed when and how the engines equipped with this defeat device will be fixed. And you haven’t told us whether that fix will affect the fuel economy or performance of the vehicles.”

I suspect because VW themselves don't yet have the answers to these questions. And will is be a single answer for all affected vehicles, or will there be a core solution with modifications necessary to integrate with the different cars?

I suspect the latter.

And then they get to get busy, when they know how to bring the cars into compliance and the impact on fuel economy and performance, with deciding on whether to proactively offer compensation for any reduced performance, or do they want to wait for the law suits to pile up and rely on the legal courts to adjudicate what if anything VW should do about the difference.


Just read an article today about the mechanics of getting vehicles in for a recall to be applied. Whether the fix actually gets installed is up to the individual owners in just about every state except California. CA is the exception as annual registration of the vehicle requires compliance with recalls. I'm expecting that without a change, these cars will be moving out of California and sold in other states at a high rate, especially when we know how bad the fuel efficiency and performance hit is.

Our present legal and regulatory system apparently has no mechanism with teeth for getting these half million cars off of US highways. Awesome! (By which I mean the exact opposite)

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jerry33, adiggs, mspohr, nwdiver - If it could be kept civil, the discussion you guys are having would be a very interesting thread.

I'll see what I can do about that.