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Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software

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#621
I'm starting to have a hard time seeing why VW wouldn't be begging to partner with Tesla. The positive PR they would get from an association with the Tesla brand might be the only thing that will boost their tarnished reputation at this point.

VW just cancelled their "Tesla killer" electric Phaeton because they don't have the money for "non-essential" projects. This means they don't feel they have the resources to electrify their fleet, so how else are they going to actually meet future emissions standards?

If Tesla is serious about building a GF in Germany as Sigmar Gabriel mentioned, perhaps the government interest in VW would encourage some type of partnership with Tesla.
 
#622
mspohr said:
Bosch is being investigated by US Feds:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...issions-probe-exclusive-idUSKCN0T82Q320151119

I guess it was only a matter of time. I don't see how Bosch could not have at least known about what VW was doing since they built the engine management system. Could VW have created the "defeat" software on their own?... I don't think so.

Bosch provides the engine control module, called EDC17, and basic software for nearly all the four-cylinder diesel cars sold in North America, including by Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE), BMW AG (BMWG.DE) and Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz (DAIGn.DE). Those systems regulate how a vehicle cleans burned-up fuel before it is expelled as exhaust.
Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/19/us-volkswagen-emissions-probe-exclusive-idUSKCN0T82Q320151119#FTi4D0yPYb5RTmiP.99
Click to expand...

Bosch were mentioned early on in the whole news cycle. They said something like "We knew it was there but told VW it was for diagnostic purposes only, and VW promised not to use it" :rolleyes:

Like Bosch I can't help feel it's only a matter of time before all the German brands admit to some level of this sort of cheating, as like you say they all get their ECU's from the same place.
 
#623
not just the US either, BBC Panorama seem to have found VW out for cheating EU regs as well which they have been denying.
Really surprised they are being allowed to sell cars at all frankly as all the denials are unravelling as rapidly as they are announced.

This increasingly seems to be not a few rogue engineers in a company without sufficient quality controls as they would like everyone to believe, but endemic deceit at all levels.
I really hope the regulators show they have teeth and can act on both sides of the pond as they and us consumers (myself having owned 2 off 3.0TDi Audi A5's) have been taken for fools.
With no hope of every receiving anything, I want compensation (which I would donate to charity) as no way would I ever have bought those cars if the polluted as badly as it appear they do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404


 
#624
Curious what everyone here thinks of the VW "fix". The description of the "Flow transformer device" reminds me of the snake oil that used to be sold in small ads in the back of Popular Science and other mags that promised "50% better power and mileage for $29.95" I have some automotive background and I think this device should do just about nothing. But of course the VW engineers are so much smarter than I.

image_0.jpg
 
#625
Speechless as I don't think there is any possible engineering equation that will solve for that picture. I'm sorry, but why would VW risk all of this mess for so many years for a cheap plastic part.

Of course I'll wait until the guys that proved VW lied to actually test it and confirm it works along with the magic software fix.
 
#626
Brian, I have a lot of engine experience having worked for VW, Audi , and Porsche years ago. I really do not think that tube and honeycomb does anything. Probably they were able to meet EU specs with only a software update but they felt like they needed to make some hardware change just to fool folks into believing they came up with some wonderful whatever.
 
#627
BriansTesla said:
Curious what everyone here thinks of the VW "fix". The description of the "Flow transformer device" reminds me of the snake oil that used to be sold in small ads in the back of Popular Science and other mags that promised "50% better power and mileage for $29.95" I have some automotive background and I think this device should do just about nothing. But of course the VW engineers are so much smarter than I.
Click to expand...

Hard to believe the VW magic software will not affect performance ... :confused:

VW claims that the proposed fix will take under an hour to install in the affected models, and that it won't even affect the power output of the engine or fuel efficiency, as was feared early on in the crisis.
The 2.0-liter engines, at least in Germany, will receive nothing more than a software update, though it is far from settled that the fix in the U.S. and Canada will be the same given the different emission standards.
The automaker points out that the solution detailed above is not meant for North American-market EA 189 engines.


Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/vw-dies...-16-and-20-liter-engines-europe#ixzz3t1aJ4wSJ
Click to expand...
 
#629
gene said:
Brian, I have a lot of engine experience having worked for VW, Audi , and Porsche years ago. I really do not think that tube and honeycomb does anything. Probably they were able to meet EU specs with only a software update but they felt like they needed to make some hardware change just to fool folks into believing they came up with some wonderful whatever.
Click to expand...
agree

its a 100% software fix, with a placebo piece of plastic to give people an excuse to say its ok.

after all, using software it did comply with the EU standards anyway, the issue was that the software tune used to pass test was not the same as the software tune used for driving.
I also suspect its about giving the Europeans something tangible, afterall can't let Americans only get the tangible fix.
 
#630
What would this part cost in quantity? About 12 cents? If that's the solution to the problem, then it will quickly overtake the GM ignition switch as the most pathetic cheap-out in the auto industry.

I can't believe for second that this is any different than the magnets around your fuel line that orient the gasoline molecules and thus double your fuel economy...

Clearly they haven't learned that lesson about how stupid we are (or aren't)... Truly, we are pretty dumb... but that dumb? I think not.
 
#632
BriansTesla said:
Curious what everyone here thinks of the VW "fix". The description of the "Flow transformer device" reminds me of the snake oil that used to be sold in small ads in the back of Popular Science and other mags that promised "50% better power and mileage for $29.95" I have some automotive background and I think this device should do just about nothing. But of course the VW engineers are so much smarter than I.

View attachment 102831
Click to expand...

note the part is only installed on one of the two engines mentioned. Watch the video for which engine but apparently it isn't needed for the other engine.

all it does it reduce turbulence to allow more steady flow readings instead of having dirty air fluttering with high and low values that have to be averaged over time. This allows for quicker adjustments / finer resolution data. It will also increase impedance / reduce airflow slightly.

The plastic isn't the overall big fix, the big fix is software. Ignore the plastic, it's not meant to be a big part of the equation.


If you aren't familiar with airflow dynamics and want to read more check out something like A New Way of Testing Fan Airflow | silentpcreview.com

It doesn't have to be pretty or expensive to work.

highrise.jpg
 
#633
I don't want to lose Economy, nor Performance, when the (x3) VWs in my family are fixed.

Perhaps a change to airflow in some way compensates for whatever software change is made in terms of whatever loss I might have had from a software-only fix?

I know zero about automotive engineering though, so Random Guess only.

Personally, I'd be happy with a software only fix, I don't need a physical-fix to be placated that something has been done. I will have to leave my car(s) at the VW service centre for some time whilst the work is done, so if they Flash some ROM, and/or Fit some parts, it makes no difference to me.

Of course, if the car COULD connect to my WiFi and updated itself autoMagically, then I would be much happier than having to take cars to the service centre. A car that could do that would be amazing, wouldn't it?<TongueInCheek!>. In reality, as this is not a safety recall, I suppose the VW fix will be done at the same time as a service, so no inconvenience to me - diminished value and being hoodwinked aside.

I wasn't fully concentrating when I heard it on the news, so I may not have my facts correct, but I think I heard that some VWs have actually performed Just Fine on some new, extended, real-world, tests ... but those models do also have the Defeat Device fitted, so if that is the case its shooting-yourself-in-the-foot unnecessarily! (EDIT: I'm referring to an EU test, not a USA one)
 
#635
Paris climate talks have produced some interesting VW "ads":
volkswagen-ad.jpg


Barnbrook_VW_z1_WEB.jpg


- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the scandal is finally catching up to VW:

Emissions scandal crushes Volkswagen sales in November
Volkswagen's emissions scandal crushed the brand's U.S. sales in November, despite heavy discounts and a strong month for the overall auto industry.
Sales plunged 25% to 23,882 units for the Volkswagen brand, compared to the same period a year earlier.
 
#636
mspohr said:
Looks like the scandal is finally catching up to VW:

Emissions scandal crushes Volkswagen sales in November
Volkswagen's emissions scandal crushed the brand's U.S. sales in November, despite heavy discounts and a strong month for the overall auto industry.
Sales plunged 25% to 23,882 units for the Volkswagen brand, compared to the same period a year earlier.
Click to expand...

From what I have been reading the sales drop is more likely because they literally have hardly any inventory on the sales lots. Even in the midst of the ignition scandal, GM sales were increasing because people were coming into the service centers for the recall work and seeing the new cars. This may happen when they actually start putting the so-called fix in place. My last two cars before the Volt were VW TDI's
 
#638
mspohr said:
Paris climate talks have produced some interesting VW "ads":

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the scandal is finally catching up to VW:

Emissions scandal crushes Volkswagen sales in November
Volkswagen's emissions scandal crushed the brand's U.S. sales in November, despite heavy discounts and a strong month for the overall auto industry.
Sales plunged 25% to 23,882 units for the Volkswagen brand, compared to the same period a year earlier.
Click to expand...


That's a heck of a lot of cars for 1 month, regardless of the drop. 23k+ people are spending a lot of their income on the VW brand, choosing that over all the others.
 
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