Wanted - Project Model S w Autopilot - No Title Needed

[AMPd]

Thanks for all the feedback, wise guys. The comments are pretty funny, I admit. But, for those with something realistic to offer, I'm open to suggestions.

You say realistic

But then ask to purchase a 2014 or newer model s for 15-20k
You're gonna need to reach into those large cajones of yours and find another 30k to add to the "15-20" if you're seriously considering purchasing one.

 

[Bigkidatheart]

Obviously, the group here doesn't understand what I'm looking for. The problem for me is that for our needs, within a few months to a year's time, this Model S may end up severely damaged or totaled, and it doesn't make sense to buy one for the regular price knowing that. If that wasn't the case, I could always just lease one for a year, use it, and send it back. Over the years, we've done this same kind of thing with other luxury vehicles. There's always someone who can make it work, and benefit somehow. If that's you, please let me know. If not, IT'S OK, GUYS...NOT TRYING TO COMPEL YOU TO DO SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO YOU! I'm looking in other places as well.

 

[Mike K]

The problem is that what you're going to do with the car doesn't change it's value. Otherwise I could just walk into an Apple store and be like "I want to buy this Macbook but I'm rough on my computers and I'll probably destroy it so it's worth half price to me." Surely you must understand that to even ask a question like that would be absurd.

You are apparently under the impression that because you're going to potentially ruin the car that that makes a properly running example worth less than it is. It's entirely irrelevant. The car you're looking to buy is worth what it's worth whether someone is looking to buy it and drive it for years or just plans on returning home and burning it down to the ground that afternoon. That's why you're getting the kind of responses you are. It's not that people don't understand what you're looking for; It's that they do understand what you're looking for and they think the request is utterly ridiculous and your reasoning for paying well under market value is silly.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Obviously, the group here doesn't understand what I'm looking for. The problem for me is that for our needs, within a few months to a year's time, this Model S may end up severely damaged or totaled, and it doesn't make sense to buy one for the regular price knowing that.

Oh my gosh. Everyone, it's Johnny Knoxville! They must want a Model S for the next Jackass movie! You know, like how they rented a car with loss damage waiver and ran it through a demolition derby in the last movie. Neat! Why isn't anyone helping him out?

;-)

P.S. What the heck _are_ you going to use the car for?

 

[outie]

I can imagine who might want to do this. Just an imagination, but something along the line of someone who came from another country (with years of credit history obviously) is returning to his/her home country with no intention to ever come back to the US.

 

[BluestarE3]

Would you consider one that may have fallen of a truck? In great shape, but you'll need to pick up in Europe and arrange your own transport.

 

[calisnow]

I will sell you calisnow's car for $10k. You will have to go pick it up though. I take Paypal or cash.

Hey wait a second. . .

Thanks for all the feedback, wise guys. The comments are pretty funny, I admit. But, for those with something realistic to offer, I'm open to suggestions.

Yep - get a job and move out of your mom's basement.

As for the lessons in legality, not suggesting anyone do anything illegal. However, if you possess a vehicle, you have the right to sell part or all of it, any time you choose. If you have a lien on it, you are bound to the terms of the associated loan, whether you maintain possession of the collateral or not. Not much different than if you totaled your vehicle and didn't have insurance on it. You would still owe the lien holder, even if the car is worthless.

Ah, we gots one a dem internet lawyers here.

 

[deonb]

I can imagine who might want to do this. Just an imagination, but something along the line of someone who came from another country (with years of credit history obviously) is returning to his/her home country with no intention to ever come back to the US.

Sure, but the car would still get reported as stolen by the lender if you miss 3 payments and they can't get hold of you.

Easiest job in the police force: track down stolen Teslas.

 

[deonb]

However, if you possess a vehicle, you have the right to sell part or all of it, any time you choose. If you have a lien on it, you are bound to the terms of the associated loan, whether you maintain possession of the collateral or not. Not much different than if you totaled your vehicle and didn't have insurance on it. You would still owe the lien holder, even if the car is worthless.

Without the title you have nothing to sell.

Here's a scenario: I "sell" you my Tesla without the title. And the day after I get your money I phone up my lender, tell them I'm not going to make any more payments and they can repossess the car, and then I give them your address. And there is not a thing you can do about it - you'll have no car and no money.

I know you can do this because I've done something very close to this to my ex wife in a previous life.

 

[AMPd]

As for the lessons in legality, not suggesting anyone do anything illegal. However, if you possess a vehicle, you have the right to sell part or all of it, any time you choose. If you have a lien on it, you are bound to the terms of the associated loan, whether you maintain possession of the collateral or not. Not much different than if you totaled your vehicle and didn't have insurance on it. You would still owe the lien holder, even if the car is worthless.

 

[Bigkidatheart]

The problem is that what you're going to do with the car doesn't change it's value. Otherwise I could just walk into an Apple store and be like "I want to buy this Macbook but I'm rough on my computers and I'll probably destroy it so it's worth half price to me." Surely you must understand that to even ask a question like that would be absurd.

You are apparently under the impression that because you're going to potentially ruin the car that that makes a properly running example worth less than it is. It's entirely irrelevant. The car you're looking to buy is worth what it's worth whether someone is looking to buy it and drive it for years or just plans on returning home and burning it down to the ground that afternoon. That's why you're getting the kind of responses you are. It's not that people don't understand what you're looking for; It's that they do understand what you're looking for and they think the request is utterly ridiculous and your reasoning for paying well under market value is silly.

Thanks for the thorough reply, Mike. I understand. To feed off of your example, I'm looking for the guy who bought a MacBook pro last year, put it on his credit card, and now is in need of money for other things. He's still got to pay the credit card company for his debt, but he could sure use the money he can get for it now. I know this is different because there is no title to the MacBook, but you get the point.

In the car world, an example would be the guy who bought this car a year or two ago, and now for whatever reason is in need of money. He's probably upside down on his loan, so he can't sell the car for enough to pay it off, so he's stuck. He can either:

1. Get it repo'd, and end up with a deficiency judgement once its liquidated, and still be in the tight financial situation he was in. OR

2. He can "sell it for parts", and walk away with enough cash to meet a serious need and regroup. He will need to continue to pay the note, because he owes it either way, but hopefully, he can invest the funds and make enough to cover most if not all of it.

It would be similar to getting a high interest loan to help get out of a tight situation. If you've never been there, then you wouldn't understand, bUT SOMEBODY DOES, and that's who I'm looking for. Title loan places are all over the country, because people get in tight situations and need money...even at ridiculous rates. Selling it for parts is the only legal way for him to do anything with the car. He can't get the title without paying it off, but he can sell the engine (N/A in this case...LOL), doors, wheels, etc, and get the money for them. I just want the car put together, and not buy it part by part. I don't need to register the car, so I don't care about the title. It doesn't benefit me, and as such, I wouldn't pay more to get one. His bank can keep the title, as the title is the real security on the loan, and not the car.

To address the "stolen car" concern, there would be nothing stolen about it. If the guy in this example failed to make payments to his bank on the car, they would try to recover the car as collateral, but of course, he wouldn't have it because he sold it as parts. Since they couldn't recover it, he would be responsible for paying the loan amount, or whatever they would settle for.

Again, if you've never been in a situation like that, you wouldn't understand, and I can see how most people who are resourceful enough to buy a Tesla Model S, probably won't be in this situation. If this were the Ford Taurus forum, I would be getting totally different responses. But, there is somebody who is in way over his head, and this all makes sense to him.

 

[Bigkidatheart]

Sure, but the car would still get reported as stolen by the lender if you miss 3 payments and they can't get hold of you.

Easiest job in the police force: track down stolen Teslas.

Hey, Deonb. Thanks for chiming in. Youre way off base with the being reported stolen thing. Your car can't be reported stolen because you failed to make the payments on it. If that were the case, the whole repo business wouldn't exist. Banks would just call the police, report the car stolen, and wait for them to pick up the customer and take them to jail. Failing to pay a car loan is a civil issue, not criminal.

 

[Bigkidatheart]

Without the title you have nothing to sell.

Here's a scenario: I "sell" you my Tesla without the title. And the day after I get your money I phone up my lender, tell them I'm not going to make any more payments and they can repossess the car, and then I give them your address. And there is not a thing you can do about it - you'll have no car and no money.

I know you can do this because I've done something very close to this to my ex wife in a previous life.

Hey, again, Deonb. Youre a rough dude, man. I'm sure your ex wife was worthy of your doing. However, if you sell me your car, your bank can't repo it from me, because I'll have a legal bill of sale buying the parts from you. If my name was on the title also (which may have been the case with your ex), they could repo it from me, but since it's not, they can't. I've worked in and around banks, finance institutions, etc for years and dealt with this kind of thing on numerous occasions. Not compelling you to do it with yours, but again, for the guy that is in need, this will make sense.

 

[mmccord]

I think the part you're missing is that even a single part (battery pack) out of a model S is worth over 20k. You are not going to find a whole car in running condition for 15-20k even if it's stolen.

 

[deonb]

Hey, Deonb. Thanks for chiming in. Youre way off base with the being reported stolen thing. Your car can't be reported stolen because you failed to make the payments on it. If that were the case, the whole repo business wouldn't exist. Banks would just call the police, report the car stolen, and wait for them to pick up the customer and take them to jail. Failing to pay a car loan is a civil issue, not criminal.

Ok, fine it's not theft as in 'larceny'. The actual crime that you can be charged with is called 'secreting lien property' and to be charged with it requires being in violation of a court order to return the property, but that would be a likely outcome in the hypothetical case above.

Either way it's enough to compel Tesla to track down the car once you go through the process.

 

[dehydratedH2O]

To feed off of your example, I'm looking for the guy who bought a MacBook pro last year, put it on his credit card, and now is in need of money for other things. He's still got to pay the credit card company for his debt, but he could sure use the money he can get for it now. I know this is different because there is no title to the MacBook, but you get the point.

This is so completely off base. The difference between a MacBook on a credit card and a car with a loan is that a car loan is secured debt. The reason a car title is in a bank's name is because the bank owns the car, not the loan-holder. (Or, in your title loan example, the title loan company actually holds rights to the title and therefore owns the car.) Whether or not the person who pays the note gives you a bill of sale, you're stealing property and they have every right to come take the vehicle from you (and believe me, Tesla will play ball with a bank that holds a title), and you will have 0 recourse when it's repo'd. It is theft, no question.

 

[808?]

1. Get it repo'd, and end up with a deficiency judgement once its liquidated, and still be in the tight financial situation he was in.

How many repo auctions have you been to with a Tesla Model S listed in the inventory?

2. He can "sell it for parts", and walk away with enough cash to meet a serious need and regroup. He will need to continue to pay the note, because he owes it either way, but hopefully, he can invest the funds and make enough to cover most if not all of it.

If you took the time to actually read these forums you would see a few Model S being parted out, and as others have said, they make way more than 20K just for the parts alone.

 

[deonb]

Hey, again, Deonb. Youre a rough dude, man. I'm sure your ex wife was worthy of your doing. However, if you sell me your car, your bank can't repo it from me, because I'll have a legal bill of sale buying the parts from you. If my name was on the title also (which may have been the case with your ex), they could repo it from me, but since it's not, they can't. I've worked in and around banks, finance institutions, etc for years and dealt with this kind of thing on numerous occasions. Not compelling you to do it with yours, but again, for the guy that is in need, this will make sense.

Her name wasn't on the title. She had bad credit and couldn't get on the loan initially. So we had a written agreement (but not part of the divorce settlement) that she can keep it if she paid me back for it after the divorce - but she stopped making the payments. The loan was still in my name and I was making payments on it.

I didn't want to deal with her anymore, so I called up the lien holder - and they repossessed the car within 12 hours thereafter (I was already late on the last payment). They just went to her property - she apparently was present and protested like crazy, but they just took the car and drove away. Last I heard of her.

I don't know if she ever showed them the agreement or not, but I just cannot imagine that there is any piece of paper that she could have presented that would have made them stop with that repossession. Even a divorce decree/settlement. The bank legally owned the car. The repossessor took it back to them. Simple as that.

 

[AMPd]

Hey, again, Deonb. Youre a rough dude, man. I'm sure your ex wife was worthy of your doing. However, if you sell me your car, your bank can't repo it from me, because I'll have a legal bill of sale buying the parts from you. If my name was on the title also (which may have been the case with your ex), they could repo it from me, but since it's not, they can't. I've worked in and around banks, finance institutions, etc for years and dealt with this kind of thing on numerous occasions. Not compelling you to do it with yours, but again, for the guy that is in need, this will make sense.

This offer of yours will make sense to absolutely no one!

Also you won't get the title to the car if there's a loan on it
The bank is in possession of the title and will release it once the loan is paid off.

You say you worked around banks and financial institutions, how are you so unaware of how this works?

 

[brantse]

I'll tell you what, for anyone who is considering taking the OP up on his offer, I'll offer you $1 more than he's willing to offer.... but guess what, I'll bet there's 30-50k people who'd also be willing to offer incrementally $1 more, eventually bringing the vehicle's price up to fair market value. It was a long shot, and although there may be some very naïve individuals in this world (some who may even own a Tesla), you're going to be hard pressed to find someone was able to purchase an $80k+ vehicle and is gullible and desperate enough to sell it for <1/3 of market value.