Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB)

[Robert.Boston]

Does anyone know what $600 buys you?

It buys you the 12-month/12,000 mile inspection, plus any and all parts and labor to address warranty items and routine maintenance, except tires.

 

[Al Sherman]

Doesn't that include swapping out for snows once a year and the needed TPMS reset?

 

[dsm363]

Doesn't that include swapping out for snows once a year and the needed TPMS reset?

They could do that during your annual service but I don't know if they've decided how they want to handle winter tire swaps yet.

 

[Carlton Bale]

At some point there will be competent 3rd party shops that will be able to do EV maintenance and when that happens you will be free to take your car there and if something break Tesla will have to fix it under warranty. But until then Tesla is your only option.

What GeorgeB is correct about is that right now there is really no practical alternative to the $600 service (simply because there is no third party EV servicing industry), but it's not explicitly required for your warranty to be valid (that would be illegal without an FTC exemption).

The problem is that Tesla is currently in violation of federal Service Information Regulations that require manuals, training, and tools be made available to any third-party service provider, and at a cost inline with what the certified dealer network pays. At this point, it's not even clear if these even exist, and they certainly aren't available to third parties. If Tesla were behaving like every other car company, they would publish specific time-based and mileage-based maintenance guidelines. The customer would then be able to choose any service provider to perform this work. The warranty would only become void if improper maintenance somehow caused a failure that would not have otherwise occurred. It would not, for example, void the warranty for a failed seat belt because of improper maintenance of the battery coolant (unless that somehow directly caused the seat belt to fail.)

There will not be a third-party service industry until Tesla makes available the information to facilitate its creation. Without an exemption, they are in violation of SIR for not doing so.

 

[Robert.Boston]

@Carlton Bale: The only such federal regulations I'm familiar with are those diagnostics and manuals related to emissions-control systems, pursuant to 48 U.S.C. 7401-7467-09. This section clearly does not apply to Tesla, as there are no emissions and hence no emissions-control systems. "As currently implemented, car companies are required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to make all emissions-related information available over Web sites that are accessible to the independent vehicle repair shops. Car companies are also required to make their emissions-related diagnostic tools available to the aftermarket."

Massachusetts is the only state that has passed right-to-repair legislation, but here again, this won't apply because even that law only requires the OEM to provide third party access to materials on the same basis as it provides to its franchise dealerships. Because Tesla has no franchise dealers, that law does not apply.

Could you point to the particular law or regulation you're citing, please?

 

[David_Cary]

It buys you the 12-month/12,000 mile inspection, plus any and all parts and labor to address warranty items and routine maintenance, except tires.

Well I'd like a little more detail.

From what it sounds like, they will do brake fluid changes every couple of years, a wiper blade or two and then a bunch of inspections. Nothing to justify the cost. Warranty items are already covered. An EV should not need "routine maintenance" and is one of the significant advantages. Heck most modern cars don't need routine maintenance other than a few fluid changes at long intervals. Nothing that $200 a year shouldn't cover.

Seems to me that not itemizing what they do makes it pretty hard to have an alternative which is a violation of the spirit of the law (at least).

Does the battery warranty have stricter requirements in CARB states?

 

[joshuaeven]

Isn't there some post somewhere that states the annual inspections are basically a tear-down and thorough eval of the entire car, and that Tesla is LOSING money on these inspections?

 

[dsm363]

Isn't there some post somewhere that states the annual inspections are basically a tear-down and thorough eval of the entire car, and that Tesla is LOSING money on these inspections?

Don't think so. The Model S was designed to require less work on the inspection I believe. They likely want to see the car so often to find any long term flaws sooner than later.

 

[stopcrazypp]

There will not be a third-party service industry until Tesla makes available the information to facilitate its creation. Without an exemption, they are in violation of SIR for not doing so.

I think Robert is correct, that law only applies to cars with emissions equipment (which EVs don't have).
But I agree Tesla should at least have a service/maintenance schedule available.

 

[Carlton Bale]

I guess I'm not clear what applies to EVs and what does not. It seems there would be no need for inclusion of an OBD port either, but I don't believe that is the case.

 

[Doug_G]

There is an ODB port on the Model S. It's hidden behind the cubby under the touchscreen. The Roadster also has one under the dashboard in front of the passenger seat; it's usually really tucked in there and can be hard to find the first time.

 

[TXjak]

Doesn't that include swapping out for snows once a year and the needed TPMS reset?

Since Tesla recommends tire rotation every 6000 miles, you could probably get them to do it in conjunction with a rotation which is covered, along with alignment, if needed, and balancing presumably.

 

[FlasherZ]

There is an ODB port on the Model S. It's hidden behind the cubby under the touchscreen. The Roadster also has one under the dashboard in front of the passenger seat; it's usually really tucked in there and can be hard to find the first time.

The OBD port (the white connector) is not a standard OBD-II interface; it's Tesla's custom interface. Is there another, standard OBD-II port? I have a question in to service about OBD-II, because insurance reducers like Progressive's Snapshot and State Farm's program use OBD-II to collect data.

 

[W.Petefish]

The white connector is used for service diagnostics only.

There is another obd port closer to the driver's side door under the dash.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

 

[FlasherZ]

The white connector is used for service diagnostics only.

There is another obd port closer to the driver's side door under the dash.

I looked all over for it where it's supposed to be. Have a picture of where it is in your car?

 

[Al Sherman]

Since Tesla recommends tire rotation every 6000 miles, you could probably get them to do it in conjunction with a rotation which is covered, along with alignment, if needed, and balancing presumably.

It would probably have to be INSTEAD of a rotation, if I were putting on a different set of wheels and tires?

 

[strider]

Well I'd like a little more detail.

From what it sounds like, they will do brake fluid changes every couple of years, a wiper blade or two and then a bunch of inspections. Nothing to justify the cost. Warranty items are already covered. An EV should not need "routine maintenance" and is one of the significant advantages. Heck most modern cars don't need routine maintenance other than a few fluid changes at long intervals. Nothing that $200 a year shouldn't cover.

Seems to me that not itemizing what they do makes it pretty hard to have an alternative which is a violation of the spirit of the law (at least).

David, no disrespect but we've beat this horse to death (in this very thread). Please go back and read the rest of the thread. May have voiced your exact concern. There has been no new info out of Tesla that I am aware of. My guess is that nothing will happen until next Fall when cars come due for their first services and we'll see what happens.

 

[TXjak]

It would probably have to be INSTEAD of a rotation, if I were putting on a different set of wheels and tires?

It's just more wheels and tires in the mix. ;-) But you might want to make a note of which wheels came from where, when you bring them back to be put back on.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I guess I'm not clear what applies to EVs and what does not. It seems there would be no need for inclusion of an OBD port either, but I don't believe that is the case.

The ODB requirement applies to all cars as part of 40 CFR 86.1806-01 On-board diagnostics:

Except as provided by paragraph (a)(2) of this section, all light-duty vehicles, light-duty trucks and MDPVs must be equipped with an onboard diagnostic (OBD) system capable of monitoring, for each vehicle's useful life, all emission-related powertrain systems or components.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/86.1806-01

The service information regulation only applies to "emissions related" diagnosis and repairs (and since the Tesla has no emissions, it doesn't apply to it) as part of 42 USC 7521(m)(5) Information availability:

The Administrator, by regulation, shall require (subject to the provisions of section 7542 (c) of this title regarding the protection of methods or processes entitled to protection as trade secrets) manufacturers to provide promptly to any person engaged in the repairing or servicing of motor vehicles or motor vehicle engines, and the Administrator for use by any such persons, with any and all information needed to make use of the emission control diagnostics system prescribed under this subsection and such other information including instructions for making emission related diagnosis and repairs. No such information may be withheld under section 7542 (c) of this title if that information is provided (directly or indirectly) by the manufacturer to franchised dealers or other persons engaged in the repair, diagnosing, or servicing of motor vehicles or motor vehicle engines.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/7521

Here's EPA's rule-making that says essentially the same (everything is prefixed with "emissions-related"):
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/im/vehserv/f03003.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-AIR/1995/August/Day-09/pr-913.html

 

[raptorweb]

if you still haven't found it i can try to get a picture of it tonight ... it is pretty much right where W.Petefish says on the left side under the steering wheel about 1/2 way back. It is oriented in a parallel fashion to the driver.