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Was just told that AP 2.0 won't get FSD.

If your HW2.0 & already paid for FSD won't be supported, which solution do you prefer?


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Those who bought FSD will get FSD and it doesn't matter what hardware will be in your car.

If that hardware is HW 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5 or whatever that won't be able to do FSD, then Tesla will be continued to be legally obligated to provide whatever it will take without additional cost to deliver what we already paid.

Let's say we give the benefit of the doubt that you're correct and Tesla sticks to the deal.

Future Tesla gets FSD working on HW3 and the world is just dandy, other than the (50,000? 75,000? More?) cars that are on the road that have had FSD purchased and paid for in advance. How long is it going to take to fulfill that promise to all of those cars if it's *just* the computer?

How long is it going to take if it requires replacing cameras? What if they have to replace wiring harnesses because it turns out to need an additional radar transceiver on each corner of the car?

So on, so forth. Tesla does a lot of things will, but I struggle to believe for a moment that even IF they actually do the HW3 upgrades, that the program will be managed in any sane or fair manner.
 
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I believe what the OP was told is true.

Generally speaking when someone says no, and there is validity to that reason then it's probably true.

Now this doesn't mean that AP2+FSD owners won't either be upgraded, refunded or given special trade in offers (like getting AP+FSD for free). Something to try to smooth over things with a customer they screwed over.

All it means is the OP wasn't allowed to get FSD on a CPO car he was purchasing. So somewhere at Tesla there is someone who knew what they were doing and told people to stop selling it to AP2 cars.
 
UPDATE: The used car manager contacted 3 different engineers in Fremont and FSD was finally added to this vehicle. Apparently they are no longer selling FSD for 2.0 cars however with the proper motivation, it got done. I love Tesla but you literally can't get the same answer from two different people. I believe that this is why every company actually needs sales people. Delivery tomorrow is on!!
 
UPDATE: The used car manager contacted 3 different engineers in Fremont and FSD was finally added to this vehicle. Apparently they are no longer selling FSD for 2.0 cars however with the proper motivation, it got done. I love Tesla but you literally can't get the same answer from two different people. I believe that this is why every company actually needs sales people. Delivery tomorrow is on!!
so you're saying I was right? :p
 
Those who bought FSD will get FSD and it doesn't matter what hardware will be in your car.

If that hardware is HW 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5 or whatever that won't be able to do FSD, then Tesla will be continued to be legally obligated to provide whatever it will take without additional cost to deliver what we already paid.

Please show me the contract or purchase receipt that says that. Not the one that says you get a version of FSD software.
 
Please show me the contract or purchase receipt that says that. Not the one that says you get a version of FSD software.

It's very simple.

For example: If no one has ever been able to cut the cord from the telephone and then there's a company that says it can sell me a cellular telephone and I'll get it as soon as all the testings are passed and the government will approve it.

It sounds good so I would gladly pay for a cellular telephone.

In the meantime, the company would still supply me a wired phone for me while waiting.

It's nice that the company supplied me a wired phone but that is not what I paid for.

What I paid for is a phone without wire.

So it doesn't matter how the company does it, software, hardware, big battery, small battery, big chip small chip, cheap components or very expensive components, the criteria are: a functional phone without a wire that I already paid for it.

That's the same when I bought FSD.

My receipt says "Full Self-Driving Capability".

So Tesla can do whatever it wants with the technical and financial details, I have fully paid for it so Tesla needs to deliver a car that can do self-driving. Not just self-driving but Full Self-Driving!
 
Sooooo for everyone with AP2.0 who prepaid for FSD, I wonder what the end game is here?

I can't imagine it ending any better way other than Tesla trying to appease with buybacks or upgrade discounts, or designing a HW3 retrofit kit, whichever options are cheaper.

If the car was sold with a FSD option it's harder for Tesla to dismiss arguments that this is specifically why the customer chose to buy that car.
Basically if Tesla sold you a FSD license and said you have all the necessary hardware or we will upgrade what's required, then they get to upgrade you as required once they start pushing out meaningful FSD-specific features.

Right now, AP3 (aka HW3) isn't in production. Once Tesla has HW3 available, we can see what benefits it brings and how necessary it is, and when. This regardless of the continual rumors that it is about to go into production.

I expect that the more advanced EAP features (ie the ones not in AP) will greatly benefit from HW3, but I'm also happy to let other people take the first 6 months of production. :)
 
It's very simple.

For example: If no one has ever been able to cut the cord from the telephone and then there's a company that says it can sell me a cellular telephone and I'll get it as soon as all the testings are passed and the government will approve it.

It sounds good so I would gladly pay for a cellular telephone.

In the meantime, the company would still supply me a wired phone for me while waiting.

It's nice that the company supplied me a wired phone but that is not what I paid for.

What I paid for is a phone without wire.

So it doesn't matter how the company does it, software, hardware, big battery, small battery, big chip small chip, cheap components or very expensive components, the criteria are: a functional phone without a wire that I already paid for it.

That's the same when I bought FSD.

My receipt says "Full Self-Driving Capability".

So Tesla can do whatever it wants with the technical and financial details, I have fully paid for it so Tesla needs to deliver a car that can do self-driving. Not just self-driving but Full Self-Driving!

Based on todays definition. There is nothing binding that promises hardware or how your FSD is defined.
 
Based on todays definition. There is nothing binding that promises hardware or how your FSD is defined.

That is true but that there are some minimum requirements to fulfill the paid purchase.

While the TV was only in black and white and no one could produce a color TV at all but someone would sell me one provided it will pass all the testings and government approvals.

There's no promise whether it'll be super fast vacuum tubes or standard speed vacuum tubes. There's no promise of the definition of color.

But the minimum fulfillment would be: It's not in black and white and it should have a full spectrum of color.

Once the minimum requirement is met, and because no definition was spelled out, then the company can ask more money for an upgrade to transistors instead of vacuum tubes, stereo, LCD, LED, Android...

It's the same with SpaceX that sold a ticket to the orbit of the moon.

There's no promise of what rockets will be used and there's no definition of what orbit of the moon is but practicing lifting off on earth won't do it. Practicing around the orbit of the earth won't do it. It has to break from the orbit of the earth and circle the moon.

Once the minimum requirement is met, and because no definition was spelled out, SpaceX could ask more money for a longer trip instead of a quick flyby trip, more money for more circling of the moon instead of once...

It's just like in the old days, Henry Ford would let you choose whatever color you want as long as it's black.

And someone would sell me red and I paid for it fully.

But there's no promise how it's done and what's the definition of red.

So when the red car came that they fulfilled the transaction, they then could ask if I want to trade in for another red one with multi-coat red and would look much better than this one.

And so will with FSD, once the minimum requirement is met, and because no definition was spelled out, then the company can ask whether I am happy yet or want to trade in with more money for a better computer, extra Radars, LIDARs...
 
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That is true but that there are some minimum requirements to fulfill the paid purchase.

While the TV was only in black and white and no one could produce a color TV at all but someone would sell me one provided it will pass all the testings and government approvals.

There's no promise whether it'll be super fast vacuum tubes or standard speed vacuum tubes. There's no promise of the definition of color.

But the minimum fulfillment would be: It's not in black and white and it should have a full spectrum of color.

Once the minimum requirement is met, and because no definition was spelled out, then the company can ask more money for an upgrade to transistors instead of vacuum tubes, stereo, LCD, LED, Android...

It's the same with SpaceX that sold a ticket to the orbit of the moon.

There's no promise of what rockets will be used and there's no definition of what orbit of the moon is but practicing lifting off on earth won't do it. Practicing around the orbit of the earth won't do it. It has to break from the orbit of the earth and circle the moon.

Once the minimum requirement is met, and because no definition was spelled out, SpaceX could ask more money for a longer trip instead of a quick flyby trip, more money for more circling of the moon instead of once...

It's just like in the old days, Henry Ford would let you choose whatever color you want as long as it's black.

And someone would sell me red and I paid for it fully.

But there's no promise how it's done and what's the definition of red.

So when the red car came that they fulfilled the transaction, they then could ask if I want to trade in for another red one with multi-coat red and would look much better than this one.

And so will with FSD, once the minimum requirement is met, and becouause no definition was spelled out, then the company can ask whether I am happy yet or want to trade in with more money for a better computer, extra Radars, LIDARs...


Not sure how much experience you have with Tesla promises but the reality is that even with something in writing it is not always easy to get what you were promised. Let's skip the analogies and Elon rhetoric and get to reality, there is no written promise attached the sale regarding hardware upgrades, exact deliverables or timelines. Some consumers have rational and reasonable expectations for what they purchase, nonsense and false promises get old and tiring along with justifications. Buying a car and specific features is not rocket science, sorry.
 
...Buying a car and specific features is not rocket science, sorry.

Even Tesla Autopilot team didn't agree to sell FSD when there's no scientific proof that the car could.

So they quit!

Elon Musk's Decision To Call Autopilot 2.0 "Full Self-Driving" Led To Resignation Of Autopilot Director?

However, I don't wait for validated certifications of FSD before buying it.

Very simple: I paid for it as a science fiction--a vision of future that are not successfully accomplished at present.
 
UPDATE: The used car manager contacted 3 different engineers in Fremont and FSD was finally added to this vehicle. Apparently they are no longer selling FSD for 2.0 cars however with the proper motivation, it got done. I love Tesla but you literally can't get the same answer from two different people. I believe that this is why every company actually needs sales people. Delivery tomorrow is on!!

see? you just keep asking someone else at tesla, and through all the wrong answers, someone will give you an answer you like. doesn't mean it's true. or correct. but hey, they will gladly take your money and good luck with that fake self driving thing.
 
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