No not just the adaptor.... The TM plug handles a variety of voltages and current as well as being able to handle DC and AC. It's a smart plug and reconfigures and adapts. I'm sure there is software and protocol communicating between car and plug to ensure they see "eye to eye" before an ounce of energy is sent. Not just a hardware adaptor.
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Anyone care to speculate what Tesla will have to do plug-wise in EU? Adapter wise?
I guess the question is. will an American MS be the exact same plug and power as a EU version?
Franz said the entire car had to be built for worldwide specs.
I guess the question is. will an American MS be the exact same plug and power as a EU version?
Franz said the entire car had to be built for worldwide specs.
I have no problem using the new, small J1772 adapter that Tesla includes in the car the once or twice a year I need it. The new Tesla connector and cable are a big improvement over the old and anything else out there in the US at least.
By "widely deployed" I think you mean mostly in Europe. I don't think Mennekes has been used much in North America or Asia for instance.
I suppose Tesla could have chosen to "go their own way" by championing Mennekes in North America but then they would probably get criticism from SAE, and also end up with a larger, less elegant connector than what they devised on their own.
They agreed that European Model S will have 3 phase charging options, right? So, do we have any idea what connector they will use for that? The current Model S plug/socket is only for single phase AC or direct DC, but not 3 phase. They must have something different in mind for European Model S that need 3 phase charging. Maybe they will put Mennekes on those, or perhaps some variant of the new Tesla Plug/socket with a Mennekes adapter? Tesla seems OK with providing small adapters, such as they are doing with the J1772 right now. (Although people need to be careful not to leave their adapter at the charging station when they go.)
I rented a LEAF on a trip to Portland, Oregon in late November last year. On my one experience with the Takasago brand CHAdeMO charger there I took a short video of its display screen shortly after starting the charge. It showed the car was drawing 382V at 95A (36kW) with a charge status at 35%. My memory is that during the charge the voltage slowly ramped higher and the amperage slowly dropped but I did not keep careful records of the charging rampdown towards the end. The ambient outside temperature where the LEAF had been stored and driven was in the 30's but the charging location was the underground parking garage of a downtown office building. Perhaps the charging rate might have been faster if the pack started off warmer.
Yes, I'm talking about the 700+ million consumers in Europe.
That's a matter of opinion... I personally think the Type 2 ("mennekes") connector is a perfect size and much more robust than the Tesla design.
Thats what they said...
IEC 61851 does not allow adaptors in Europe.
sublimaze1
8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins
You are all on the wrong page of the manual. The solution is already out there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOqOxI0K_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOqOxI0K_I
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
As with all standards, there is some wiggle room. (Not saying it's easy, only that it's not quite as clearcut as you state.) RE IEC 61851:
Sorry but that's incorrect;
IEC 61851-1 Edition 2.0 2010-11 6.3.3 "Adaptors shall not be used to connect a vehicle connector to a vehicle inlet"
EV_de
Model SP10/XP9 EU ZOE#47
after the Roadster Plug "disaster" a non "Mennekes" vehicle inlet wouldn't be accepted in EU ...
Nice!
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What is the definition of "vehicle connector"? Can the "vehicle connector" include the equivalent of a "built-in adaptor?"
For instance, can they make a cable that has Mennekes on one side, and some sort of Model S proprietary plug on the other side?
In the USA, we are used to having a cable and plug hang off the EVSE, but I gather in Europe is is more common for the EVSE to just have a socket, and the "customer" brings along their own interface cable...
Norbert
TSLA will win
IEC 61851-1 Edition 2.0 2010-11 3.15.1 "vehicle connector - part of a vehicle coupler integral with, or intended to be attached to, the flexible cable connected to the a.c. supply network (mains)"
Yes, so long as the proprietary plug meets all the other standards referenced in IEC 61851-1 then a cable assembly can be used to connect two different connectors (that's how we connect Type 1 "J1772" to Type 2 "mennekes" Charging Stations).
The main point to understand is that Tesla's current approach of 'adaptors' between the cable connector (J1772 for example) and the car (Model S for example) is expressly forbidden. Given that our new IET wiring code of practice (NEC equivalent) mandates BS EN 61851 compliance it's only a matter of time before this becomes a legal requirement across the EU.
We have both models in use... most homes will have fixed cables and most commercial locations just sockets.
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No, Type 2 supports 70kW DC without extra pins (see diagram above).
There are three "standards areas" currently: Europe (500 million, btw, not 700 million) (Type 2), the US/Canada (Type 1), and Japan (CHAdeMO). Tesla quite reasonably is not worried about meeting EU regulations in making it convenient for their North American customers to charge. The Model S port is compatible with SAE signalling standards, and use of an adapter is perfectly legal here.
The SC network is a North American announcement, not an EU announcement. What TM hasn't announced, and the one that I think you care about, Kevin, is how Tesla will set up the Model S for sale in the EU. We don't know the answer yet, so I don't think it's fair to go bashing Tesla about it yet.
The SC network is a North American announcement, not an EU announcement. What TM hasn't announced, and the one that I think you care about, Kevin, is how Tesla will set up the Model S for sale in the EU. We don't know the answer yet, so I don't think it's fair to go bashing Tesla about it yet.
Sorry but that's incorrect: Figures for the population of Europe vary according to which definition of European boundaries is used. The population within the standard physical geographical boundaries was 731 million in 2005 according to the United Nations
I think it's important to understand in the context of this discussion that Tesla could have (IMO should have) supported an existing charging connector standard and helped the deployment of EV's worldwide.
That's the population if you include European Russia, but for the purposes of this discussion we should probably define Europe as the countries that are members of CENELEC.
Nevertheless, the IEC 62196-1 standard includes North America by virtue of having Type 1 in the standard. In fact that's where the term Type 1 came from, as it was given that tag by the IEC to distinguish it from Types 2 and 3, the two alternate European plugs.
As far as I can see in the standard, the vehicle side adapter is not allowed and there are no country exceptions.
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How about this: they keep the existing Tesla proprietary port on the left for single phase AC + Supercharging, and then provide a standard Mennekes port on the right tail-light flap for 3-phase AC charging?
Providing all forms of AC input seems prudent, but what about high current DC? If they only offer Supercharging, and deploy some European superchargers in key locations is that enough, or are people going to get up in arms if they don't offer "Frankenplug" Mennekes DC charging too?
How many DC chargers using Mennekes are already installed in Europe so far? More than CHAdeMO?
Providing all forms of AC input seems prudent, but what about high current DC? If they only offer Supercharging, and deploy some European superchargers in key locations is that enough, or are people going to get up in arms if they don't offer "Frankenplug" Mennekes DC charging too?
How many DC chargers using Mennekes are already installed in Europe so far? More than CHAdeMO?
I think many people would happily accept multiple connectors... I never hear anyone complain about the Leaf in this regard.
I think it will be extremely difficult for Tesla to build a European wide proprietary DC network... they need CHAdeMO IMO and then whatever standard gains traction with the volume EV manufacturers.
lots of rumours about a mass produced car supporting Type 2 70kW DC but nothing concrete in the ground today.
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