What features are coming for HW1 AP drivers...

[SomeJoe7777]

I'll believe that AP1 will improve when it actually improves. The last time that happened was in 2015, every change since has been to actively remove or limit functionality.

Demonstratively false. Firmware 8.0 two-car ahead radar processing alone is a gigantic addition, and that's just one item.

I filmed a video 2 weeks ago when I first received 8.0 (2.52.22) that shows my vehicle navigate for 26 full minutes on Houston freeways including construction zones and two interchange ramps without disengaging AP, and it did so safely and with a precision approaching my own. At no point prior to this AP version could my car have done that.

I know this is your pet issue green1, but I believe you've let your distaste for a few specific issues blind you to the other improvements that have been made. As you continue to stay with 7.0, you are leaving more and more capability on the table that you're not availing yourself of. Capabilities that, if you tried them, might (now or eventually) be more important than the hold steering wheel and 5-over on non-divided roads issues. I think you're doing yourself a disservice and not getting the most value out of your car.

 

[green1]

Demonstratively false. Firmware 8.0 two-car ahead radar processing alone is a gigantic addition, and that's just one item.

I filmed a video 2 weeks ago when I first received 8.0 (2.52.22) that shows my vehicle navigate for 26 full minutes on Houston freeways including construction zones and two interchange ramps without disengaging AP, and it did so safely and with a precision approaching my own. At no point prior to this AP version could my car have done that.

And yet on older firmware I routinely go for over an hour without touching the steering wheel at all, safely, and with a precision approaching my own. 26 minutes while you hold the steering wheel doesn't impress me. I don't care if the radar can see 15 cars ahead, it doesn't improve how it drives.

I believe you've let your distaste for a few specific issues blind you to the other improvements that have been made.

And I believe that you've let your unthinking worship of Tesla blind you to the major deteriorations that have been made.

As you continue to stay with 7.0, you are leaving more and more capability on the table that you're not availing yourself of. Capabilities that, if you tried them, might (now or eventually) be more important than the hold steering wheel and 5-over on non-divided roads issues. I think you're doing yourself a disservice and not getting the most value out of your car.

I have tried newer firmware versions, and I haven't found even a single improvement in any of them, I have however found MANY major drawbacks. In fact, the complete inability to use the AP that I paid for without driving dangerously slowly on most roads is a complete non-starter for me.
Meanwhile, what have they added? "the radar sees 2 cars ahead"? that doesn't fix any problem they had. They also played with the audio interface, no improvement there, and other than that they only made things worse, harder to access the icons on the top row, harder to get your apps to open in the positions you want, and the complete destruction of the limited portion of AP that they've released so far.

Nobody has yet managed to point out any of these new "capabilities" let alone tell me why I would want them more than the ability to drive on autopilot which I would have to give up to get them.

 

[Max*]

Ah, I know what'll get you to upgrade -- the new and improved 5 band equalizer!

 

[green1]

Ah, I know what'll get you to upgrade -- the new and improved 5 band equalizer!

ooo... shiny!

Would this be a bad time to mention that I already have a 10 band EQ? (through setting variables on the network)

 

[Andyw2100]

Nobody has yet managed to point out any of these new "capabilities" let alone tell me why I would want them more than the ability to drive on autopilot which I would have to give up to get them.

I agree with you on many points. But I think this video, which I am sure you have seen, is a compelling testament to the new capabilities of being able to see (with the radar) the second car ahead. The Tesla alerted and started braking before the car immediately in front of it did anything, presumably because it recognized the car in front of that one was dramatically slowing down. That was quite impressive, and not possible in Firmware 7.0.

 

[green1]

Th

I agree with you on many points. But I think this video, which I am sure you have seen, is a compelling testament to the new capabilities of being able to see (with the radar) the second car ahead. The Tesla alerted and started braking before the car immediately in front of it did anything, presumably because it recognized the car in front of that one was dramatically slowing down. That was quite impressive, and not possible in Firmware 7.0.

Great, if I give up AP, AP will be better.... I don't think you get the point here. AP would not be in use for me in a newer firmware version because it is 100% unusable. As such, you can't use an AP "improvement" to sell me on giving up AP.

You'd have to come up with a non-ap feature that is worth more to me than AP, and AP is worth a large amount to me, so much so that I spent over $100,000 to get it.

 

[Andyw2100]

Great, if I give up AP, AP will be better.... I don't think you get the point here.

I was just pointing out a new AP1 capability, in response to your saying that no one had pointed one out. I wasn't trying to convince you of anything.

Edit: @green1 -- Please re-read the post of mine that you hurled a "disagree" at. Just what part of that do you disagree with? You specifically said no one had pointed out a new capability in AP1, so I did that. Unless you think the video was made up, or that the capability demonstrated in it is not new, there is nothing in that post for you to disagree with.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

it is 100% unusable

You should've made it 110% unusable for a more dramatic effect.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

And yet on older firmware I routinely go for over an hour without touching the steering wheel at all, safely, and with a precision approaching my own. 26 minutes while you hold the steering wheel doesn't impress me. I don't care if the radar can see 15 cars ahead, it doesn't improve how it drives.

I believe you misunderstand me. I've done road trips on the open highway and gone for hours without disengagement, that's no problem. But on these freeways I'm talking about these obstacles:

• Construction zones where there are abrupt changes in lane direction
• Lane markers switch from Botts dots to lane stripes and back repeatedly
• Mixture of old concrete and new concrete that are different colors/reflectivities
• Lack of shoulders where lane is directly adjacent to Jersey barrier
• Changed traffic patterns where painted lane markers were sandblasted off the concrete, leaving lighter concrete silhouette that still looks like a lane marker, and having these areas intermixed with the actual lane markers whether painted or Botts dots
• Concrete seams that run at angles to the actual lane markers because of the construction

In addition to this, I navigated two separate freeway interchange ramps while on autosteer. This is very close to the "on-ramp to off-ramp" functionality.

And I believe that you've let your unthinking worship of Tesla blind you to the major deteriorations that have been made.

Hardly. I am not a fanboy or worshiper, I simply call it like I see it.

I have tried newer firmware versions, and I haven't found even a single improvement in any of them, I have however found MANY major drawbacks. In fact, the complete inability to use the AP that I paid for without driving dangerously slowly on most roads is a complete non-starter for me.

Well, the improvements I listed above are a good start. Previous versions of AP would have gone off the rails about two dozen times in those conditions and it doesn't now. From where I'm sitting, that's improvement.

As far as the drawbacks you're so passionate about, they don't affect me in the slightest. Even in 7.0, I never drove without my hands at least touching the wheel -- AP was not reliable enough for me to trust it with my hands off. And I never use it on non-divided roads -- again, I don't think it's ready for that.

If you really want to continue using 7.0 and you're convinced that's the right version for you, then by all means do so. But A) I think you're missing out and will continue to miss out. And B) Even with 7.0, you're not at all happy. From your complaints, I don't think there is anything that would make you happy. AP2 would be worse for you. 7.0 appears to not do what you want. I'm kind of at a loss as to what would have to exist to make you happy.

I, however, am very happy with my AP1. I'm not concerned with what was promised or envisioned or when it arrived. My question to myself is: Does the value of what I currently have in the car meet or exceed its $3000 cost? I answer a resounding yes to that.

 

[green1]

I don't think there is anything that would make you happy

On the contrary, making me happy is easy. Tesla just needs to follow through on their promises.

I've listed may places the explicit promises that Tesla made to me to get a sale, they lied, that's what I don't like. If they deliver on those promises I'll be ecstatic. Of course so far they haven't done that, not even close.

That and actively removing functionality from the car after purchase against my express wishes, in contravention of their warranty policy, all ethical considerations, and the law... I'm not a fan of that either.

 

[Max*]

Tesla just needs to follow through on their promises.

That's not possible given the current hardware. So the quote is valid, there is nothing [doable with AP1 hardware] that would make you happy. Which is fine. But at least own it.

 

[green1]

That's not possible given the current hardware. So the quote is valid, there is nothing [doable with AP1 hardware] that would make you happy. Which is fine. But at least own it.

I don't actually agree.
We've proven that AP1 can do hands free on-ramp to off-ramp, mine does it daily and it does it well.
There's no reason to believe that it couldn't summon to you on private property using the ultrasonics as described, they just haven't implemented it.
Waking up to your scheduled meeting, determining travel time, and meeting you at your door on private property is also quite do-able.
I see no reason the AEB couldn't be changed to bring the vehicle to a full and complete stop instead of the current policy of only slowing you down.
And there's no reason that it couldn't react to stop signs, traffic lights, and pedestrians using the mobileye technology, mobileye has shown many demonstrations of their system doing just that.

Tesla doesn't WANT to deliver on their promises, I see nothing to show that they CAN'T. And even if it couldn't be done with the AP1 hardware (which I don't believe), that's not my problem, it's theirs, they fraudulently took my money for an advertised set of features, it is up to them to deliver that, even if it involves extensive hardware changes to do it.

 

[Max*]

We've proven that AP1 can do hands free on-ramp to off-ramp, mine does it daily and it does it well.

No, actually it can't. That only works if you have no forks in the road, and stay in the same lane.

This promise, without caveats, will never happen.

And this seems to be your biggest gripe. The below are minor annoyances, which I'll still respond to, but even if they fixed ALL of them, you'd still complain about the above.

There's no reason to believe that it couldn't summon to you on private property using the ultrasonics as described, they just haven't implemented it.

This is possible. There is probably as much liability with turning the vehicle as there is with it going in reverse (no camera for either). So maybe one day it'll happen.

This might not happen without pre-programming, telling the car "drive this route to meet me at the door", so again, not without caveats. How would it know where your front door is otherwise? Home to the Tesla app, well *sugar*, it just drove through my rose garden which it thought was a path.

Waking up to your scheduled meeting, determining travel time, and meeting you at your door on private property is also quite do-able.

Isn't that implemented with the calendar already? It tells you how long it'll take to get to the next meeting, including travel time.

The meeting you at the door, is part of the previous comment.

I see no reason the AEB couldn't be changed to bring the vehicle to a full and complete stop instead of the current policy of only slowing you down.

I don't think Tesla ever promised this, so this is an improvement gripe you have.

And there's no reason that it couldn't react to stop signs, traffic lights, and pedestrians using the mobileye technology, mobileye has shown many demonstrations of their system doing just that.

AP1 already reacts to pedestrians, so that's done. But you haven't updated, so that's another feature you're missing.

The rest might come.

Tesla doesn't WANT to deliver on their promises, I see nothing to show that they CAN'T. And even if it couldn't be done with the AP1 hardware (which I don't believe), that's not my problem, it's theirs, they fraudulently took my money for an advertised set of features, it is up to them to deliver that, even if it involves extensive hardware changes to do it.

Good luck with that.

I'm not defending what Tesla did, they way over promised and under delivered. But I don't see you winning a law case, the details were discussed in other threads and I'm not going to rehash them here (the language in the documents you signed, it being beta and still under development, yadda yadda yadda).



If you want Tesla to deliver, put your money where your mouth is, and take them to court.

 

[green1]

No, actually it can't. That only works if you have no forks in the road, and stay in the same lane.

And they never said that it would do more. That one's easy, and would be already done if Tesla wanted to do it.

And this seems to be your biggest gripe. The below are minor annoyances, which I'll still respond to, but even if they fixed ALL of them, you'd still complain about the above.

Well it WAS their biggest promise, and the whole reason so many people bought AP... so yes, if they continue to refuse to take it back to doing that... we'll still complain about it.

Isn't that implemented with the calendar already? It tells you how long it'll take to get to the next meeting, including travel time.

Except it doesn't pre-condition your car based on the calendar, it does it based on weird wild guesses. and you can't gloss over the summon part, because that's the part they bragged most about!

I don't think Tesla ever promised this, so this is an improvement gripe you have.

Examples of claim:

• Model S | Tesla Motors Snapshot of the Tesla Motors website from July 16 2015, in the “Autopilot” section states “In emergency conditions, Model S safely brings itself to a full stop.”
  
  
• Your Autopilot has arrived | Tesla Motors Snapshot of the Tesla Motors website from October 30 2015, in the first paragraph states “Digital control of motors, brakes, and steering helps avoid collisions from the front and sides, as well as preventing the car from wandering off the road”
  

If you want Tesla to deliver, put your money where your mouth is, and take them to court.

Well, they've refused all other options, so it's with a couple of government regulatory agencies right now, we'll see where that leads. Trust me, just because I'm on here talking about it doesn't mean I'm letting Tesla get away with screwing people over.

 

[jmsurpri]

I just tried off-ramp yesterday for the first time and it worked better than described here, I think. I was on the highway and wanted to take the next exit. I was on AP and hit the right turn signal while in the right lane way before the exit lane. Car stayed in the lane and only when the exit lane appeared to the right, did it initiate the change to the exit lane. Not sure how it knows to wait and that it can't take a right onto the shoulder of the highway, so it was pretty cool to see.

 

[Max*]

I just tried off-ramp yesterday for the first time and it worked better than described here, I think. I was on the highway and wanted to take the next exit. I was on AP and hit the right turn signal while in the right lane way before the exit lane. Car stayed in the lane and only when the exit lane appeared to the right, did it initiate the change to the exit lane. Not sure how it knows to wait and that it can't take a right onto the shoulder of the highway, so it was pretty cool to see.

AP doesn't cross solid lines (or at least it didn't in recent updates, maybe they changed something). So it likely saw the dashed line.

 

[jdjeff88]

You are too funny! Dogmatic and wrong, but funny. I really do enjoy your posts, even if they somewhat distort reality. But in a cute and engaging way. Hard to look away. You never waver!

And yes. Exit to exit. As long as the exits are less than 6 or so minute apart. I sometimes touch the climate control or entertainment controls though.

I've driven Teslas from several years ago and a year ago. Apart from being more strongly encouraged to keep your hands on the wheel now, which you were required to do then, these drive better and are safer. I am not an apologist, just a realist. Observable reality. But we won't agree so cheers!

So with no hands on the steering wheel? or is the steering wheel not a control any more?


And yet, not nearly as well as a car bought a year ago did at that time.


You mean software DOWNGRADES, that's what we call changes that remove functionality that already existed, especially when they don't add anything in exchange.

I know it's fashionable around here to believe that Tesla can do no wrong, but how blind do you have to be to not see that AP1 doesn't match any of the promises initially made?????

 

[ElectricLove]

Wow, this was fun to read through, I love all the banter!

However, I haven't heard much of "what we might get in our HW1 equipped AP cars"...

To make it clear for the argumentative types; I'm not "expecting" anything, but I am HOPING and although TESLA makes great cars (mostly due to their inherent nature as Electric Vehicles and less so due to TESLA being good at manufacturing or software design) I know my hope is likely to go unfounded...

I just wish it weren't TESLA being the only company with the balls to pump as much investment into an EV world as they have, I am confident it would have been executed better if done by a more mature manufacturer (the actual vehicles is what I'm referring to, less so the branding/marketing and supercharging network which is arguable the one trump card TESLA will hold over all the others for quite some time)...

 

[fasteddie7]

Wow, this was fun to read through, I love all the banter!

However, I haven't heard much of "what we might get in our HW1 equipped AP cars"...

To make it clear for the argumentative types; I'm not "expecting" anything, but I am HOPING and although TESLA makes great cars (mostly due to their inherent nature as Electric Vehicles and less so due to TESLA being good at manufacturing or software design) I know my hope is likely to go unfounded...

I just wish it weren't TESLA being the only company with the balls to pump as much investment into an EV world as they have, I am confident it would have been executed better if done by a more mature manufacturer (the actual vehicles is what I'm referring to, less so the branding/marketing and supercharging network which is arguable the one trump card TESLA will hold over all the others for quite some time)...

I'd say stop light and red light detection, enhanced summon on your own property, and on ramp,off ramp. Really I think the only things ap1 won't get is automatic passing (without turn signal input) and the ability to make left and right turns ( although in theory and time, the vehicle could be at a stop sign or light, you put on the turn signal, then tap the accelerator and app makes the turn) but with no side cameras to see the road that it is turning on, that might be a little beyond the capability of hardware.

 

[jmsurpri]

Do we know how wide the camera lens is on AP1 cars? If it's super-wide, perhaps it can see cross traffic at intersections.