What's your predicted loyalty to Tesla whenever replacing current car?

[RonI]

We want to have our experience suck less until we get another car. And it isn’t negativity, it’s an experience.

hen someone asks how I like my Model S (AP3/FSD/MCU1), I tell them it is a perfectly mediocre car. Fit and finish are mediocre, the car is noisy (on the inside) and service is crap.

The worst part of owning a Tesla? The damn updates. Introduce one new feature and 100 bugs. Move the PRND indicator for no f-ing reason. Change what was a nice UI into a terrible one with tiny little icons that were once easy to use. An update rendered using voice commands useless, they said to push the voice button and submit a bug report, it will be fixed in the next update (which was 18 months ago).

it is death by 1,000,000 cuts.

is that negative or just trying to let someone else know what to expect?

Tesla did treat me great until I did something - hit the button to buy.

The point is, all cars have faults. The things you list like fit & finish were there before you decided to purchase and you did anyway. So you I don't feel that carries much if any weight. The noise, well if it's been there the whole time, again it could have been fixed or you could have returned the vehicle. Tesla SC techs are not "Mechanics" they are "Technicians" there's a difference and it's the same at all other dealerships today. Manufacturers are designing vehicle to be worked on by monkeys. The service has been good for me and as a mechanic I know good service. Could it be better? sure. The changes due to updates are just like any computer and as things change people get frustrated. That said all other cars are static and don't update unless the are brought to a dealership for patches or updates never improvements. My '16 S is better today than when I purchased it and it continues to improve. I didn't like the change to smaller font and the next update fixed that. No big deal.

 

[RonI]

Engines can be inspected by any competent mechanic. Tesla restricts information on battery health, and will not perform such inspections as a service. That, and a new engine for almost any car in the same price range will not cost as much as a new battery, so a risk is a lot higher with a Tesla.

PS> Tesla does not have an 8 year powertrain warranty. Strictly only the battery and the Drive Unit is covered. Common misconception by the way, perhaps intentional misleading on the part of Tesla.

Similarly priced vehicles:
1. Engines can be inspected, however the rate of oil consumption requires time. engine bearing and piston ring wear would require removal and teardown of the engine and thousands of dollars in labor and parts.
2. Battery health is not difficult to determine. My 15 year old can do the math.
3. Doing an engine this week on a 2013 550i and it's going to cost the customer over $17k. That doesn't include the transmission, differential, fuel system, exhaust, turbos, intercoolers as that would be another 15-20k.
4. You're correct, Tesla does not warranty a transmission, engine, exhaust, catalytic converters, fuel system, Turbos, emissions components, Engine and trans computers, need I go on? An 8 year 100k mile powertrain warranty on a vehicle is nearly unheard of. The battery and drive units are really the only costly items that can fail on these cars.

 

[BigNerd]

There may also be a difference opinion if you own an S/X vs a 3/Y.

I got the cheapest Y you could get... at $40k, it seems very on par if not better than other $40k vehicles I've owned/leased.

 

[SmartElectric]

you're literally in every thread even slightly critical of Tesla talking about how your car is perfect and charges just as fast as it did when it was new, etc.

I think you don't understand the word literally. I post selectively on this forum (less than a post per day), and do call out exaggerated claims when they are made.
Re: my car, yes still 95% original capacity after 8.5 years and charges like new.

 

[whitex]

2. Battery health is not difficult to determine. My 15 year old can do the math.

I'm guessing you (or your 15 year old) think just range at 100% SoC gives you all you need to know about the battery health, and be able to tell how hard it was use, when it will be throttled, nerfed, etc. Ah, ignorance is bliss. If you ever want to be less ignorant, check out some of the hacking threads, how to scan the health of your battery using CAN bus, though Tesla has been blocking things over time by changing software to disallow owners seeing the health of the battery.

4. You're correct, Tesla does not warranty a transmission, engine, exhaust, catalytic converters, fuel system, Turbos, emissions components, Engine and trans computers, need I go on? An 8 year 100k mile powertrain warranty on a vehicle is nearly unheard of. The battery and drive units are really the only costly items that can fail on these cars.

There are drive axels (which die more often than you'd think, even original ones are flawed and cause shudder but you have to fight Tesla to get them replaced under a service bulletin if your car happens to be under warranty) , power inverters, contactors, wiring with connectors, and in at least one reported case $1,200 gaskets which are required to be replaced when replacing a Drive Unit which (surprise!) apparently are not included in the 8 year drive unit warranty. Oh, and if your MCU is dead you cannot replace the drive unit or the battery either, even though MCU is not part of the drive unit warranty or battery warranty.

 

[David_Cary]

Disgruntled people with older S's are still on here for many reasons.
- Hoping the service situation will improve
- Hoping software changes or class action lawsuits will fix our problems
- Hoping Tesla does better with pricing battery replacements and giving appropriate warranties
- Making up for prior Tesla positive statements we have made in the past that now we regret
- Passing time waiting for a replacement car to become available
- Misery loves company

You can certainly love the car but hate the company and the direction it has gone. You are stuck because your replacement car will be inadequate in some ways. You are frustrated and trapped so you complain on forums. To be honest, I am surprised there isn't more negativity. But most wise people just move on or give up I suppose. Is it my time? I am super close.

 

[whitex]

Disgruntled people with older S's are still on here for many reasons.
- Hoping the service situation will improve
- Hoping software changes or class action lawsuits will fix our problems
- Hoping Tesla does better with pricing battery replacements and giving appropriate warranties
- Making up for prior Tesla positive statements we have made in the past that now we regret
- Passing time waiting for a replacement car to become available
- Misery loves company

You can certainly love the car but hate the company and the direction it has gone. You are stuck because your replacement car will be inadequate in some ways. You are frustrated and trapped so you complain on forums. To be honest, I am surprised there isn't more negativity. But most wise people just move on or give up I suppose. Is it my time? I am super close.

You forgot about the main reason - Tesla does not communicate, so the TMC is next best way to find out about service bulletins, fixes, whether the new broken feature you see in your car is actual broken car or a Tesla oups (or a feature), and what others managed to get Tesla to fix or pay for and how. So, until those people do move on, they'll be coming back here looking for answers.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Looks like more tesla fans or new tesla owner here in this thread trying to validate their purchase. I don't blame them. Who wouldn't? I use to be one of those tesla fan when they actually care about customer. Now? It is all about quarterly profits to please the ego of their Head Master. I suspect if tesla continues on this path, those new owners will eventually be done with tesla once their honeymoon period is over and the bill come due. But hey by then there will be more of those tesla fans/stock holder and newer first time tesla owners to vouch for their cars. And the cycle continues. For me, I'm moving on. Im not holding on hope to see much change at tesla until musk gets the boot or if the company becomes unprofitable and they scurry back to their customer for more honey. In the meantime, I'll drive my model S until it dies and looking at another EVs brand in anticipation for the eventual death of my model S.

 

[SO16]

I wonder how other brands will be with their EVs after long term ownership. That remains to be seen. Bolt, Taycan, iPace, etc are all in their “honeymoon” phases.

Musk leaving Tesla would be a huge loss.

I don’t know that newer vehicles with newer chemistries will have the same battery type issues as earlier vehicles did. Time will tell.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

I bought my 2016.5 P90D used from Tesla for about $70k in 2019. It was the fastest and most tech-enabled car I could afford at the time.

From a luxury standpoint, it's far behind a BMW M5 or Mercedes E63, which I would consider its competitors in that space. I've had to deal with some maintenance on mine, but that's resolved now and it runs/drives reliably.

For me, the biggest draw is AutoPilot and the general UI....the simplicity of their interface is absolutely wonderful. I test drove an eTron and had a hard time figuring everything out, and that's coming from someone who's been in IT for over a decade.

With that said, my loyalty to Tesla is about $400, the cost of my wall charger. It got me interested in EVs, and may keep me in EV purchasing mode permanently. But if a competitor comes out with an EV that has a similarly easy to use interface and some other unique draws, I have no problem switching over.

If I was buying an EV right now, I'd probably order a F150 Lightning. Who knows what the marketplace will look like in 5 years when i'll be ready to buy something new.

 

[dipper]

Had 8 year relationship with my Rav4EV. Great CUV. Great Toyota/dealer relationship. The only thing I hate about that CUV, is the Tesla parts. Got rid of it moment the extended warranty expired. Don't want to end up as door stopper others had after warranty expired. Or pay $10k to fix.

The biggest problem is a cheap o-ring leaking coolant into motor, causing rust and dies. This is the same problem seen in early Model S.... as it is the same motor.

If it was a real Toyota, would have kept it... Knowing Toyota Gen 1 still running around 20 years later. Gen 2, not my problem any more

 

[whitex]

I wonder how other brands will be with their EVs after long term ownership. That remains to be seen. Bolt, Taycan, iPace, etc are all in their “honeymoon” phases.

Yea, except their manufacturers have an established service record and are unlikely to follow Tesla in that regard. Although who knows, maybe some bean-counter will convince the higher ups to dismantle the parts sales channels, pull all dealer licenses and start direct service only so they can start saving money by refusing to fix cars, or shift the costs to another quarter by delaying the services. Maybe that will be Elon's legacy in the auto-world. I know the other guys are already feeling the pressure for not shipping vaporware for which customers gladly pay for it, or shipping without rigid process and validation - hard to compete on innovation speed if your company forces you to actually build a product and validate it, while the other guy is shipping vaporware.

I don’t know that newer vehicles with newer chemistries will have the same battery type issues as earlier vehicles did. Time will tell.

That is pretty much the theme of every new Tesla buyer today - "Elon admitted they had problems with their cars before, but he said they fixed them, so my car will be perfect and never need repairs".

It's not the Tesla quality that turns people off, it's Tesla's treatment of customers. Tesla quality wasn't better in the early days, yet people, myself included, loved the cars and tried to convince anyone who would listen to buy one. Today, I tell anyone who asks the truth, which includes the fact that after 4 Teslas, I'm not planning to buy another one. Maybe some day if they change their parts and customer service, but that doesn't seem likely while Elon is running things.

 

[Altes]

Why are you here on TMC?

To speak about my experience with the car and the company, and not be a mindless elon worshipping fanboy

 

[SmartElectric]

Had 8 year relationship with my Rav4EV. The only thing I hate about that CUV, is the Tesla parts

It's a DAMN SHAME that Toyota has been unable to build a credible EV and had to seek Tesla out to provide parts for their EV effort back in the day. I mean REALLY, if Toyota would just be innovative and build a credible EV, maybe Tesla wouldn't have dominated the industry and put so many owners here in a terrible position needing to purchase a Tesla because there was no credible alternative. DAMN TESLA FOR LEADING!!

The biggest problem is a cheap o-ring leaking coolant into motor, causing rust and dies. This is the same problem seen in early Model S.... as it is the same motor

And yet my 2013 Model S VIN ~#6000 is still on the road, 8+ years later, silently putting on the km with 95% original battery.

 

[Radish11]

Mach E

 

[Radish11]

It's a DAMN SHAME that Toyota has been unable to build a credible EV and had to seek Tesla out to provide parts for their EV effort back in the day. I mean REALLY, if Toyota would just be innovative and build a credible EV, maybe Tesla wouldn't have dominated the industry and put so many owners here in a terrible position needing to purchase a Tesla because there was no credible alternative. DAMN TESLA FOR LEADING!!


And yet my 2013 Model S VIN ~#6000 is still on the road, 8+ years later, silently putting on the km with 95% original battery.

Toyota’s lack of EV ambitions is highly alarming

 

[Barry]

Toyota’s lack of EV ambitions is highly alarming

The Kodak business model - head in sand?

 

[aesculus]

The Kodak business model - head in sand?

They were full into H2 at one time instead of EV's. But that seemed to have been nipped for lots of reasons.

 

[BigNick]

It's a DAMN SHAME that Toyota has been unable to build a credible EV and had to seek Tesla out to provide parts for their EV effort back in the day. I mean REALLY, if Toyota would just be innovative and build a credible EV, maybe Tesla wouldn't have dominated the industry and put so many owners here in a terrible position needing to purchase a Tesla because there was no credible alternative. DAMN TESLA FOR LEADING!!


And yet my 2013 Model S VIN ~#6000 is still on the road, 8+ years later, silently putting on the km with 95% original battery.

GM had the EV world by the shorties in the mid-90s and flushed it all away. If they hadn’t, Toyota might have gone to GM for EV parts.

 

[mikedesim]

My 2020 Performance is my second Model 3 (first totaled). It will almost certainly be my last Tesla.

As they have transitioned to a much larger company, customer service is in the toilet. Unfortunately I have had to deal with issues and Telsa has been less than stellar to deal with.

Second reason is that as I'm getting more miles on these cars, I'm becoming more annoyed with build quality. The squeaks and rattles get worse daily. Things get looser. The rattly sound when I close the door gets more annoying.

But I feel like the biggest reason related to Tesla only is that Tesla seems to have given up on improving the car. I feel like the huge "double fire" Christmas update that was more like a dumpster fire took all the wind out of their sails. And I feel like they are concentrating on FSD which to me is now a fool's errand. Clearly they are finally coming to grips with how difficult L3/L4/L5 really is. And the harder they work on it seemingly the more resources are diverted from the "features addition" team. When I bought my first Model 3 at the end of 2018, until the end of 2020, the amount of features added was staggering. Video players, video games, more streaming services, acceleration boosts, smart summon, Joe Mode, TeslaCam, and on and on. Really, there was huge value to that. Since Christmas 2020? NOTHING.

Finally, there is the competition to discuss. There is still nothing like the performance of a Model 3 dual motor for the cost. There just isn't. But now, there are way more compelling EV's out there. I like the looks of the Mustang a LOT. The Etron GT is drop dead gorgeous. The Taycan Cross Tourismo; an EV wagon? Sign me UP! The Merc EQS looks like it will absolutely PANTS a Model S in every way except outright performance, and seemingly for similar cost. The iD4 is a compelling lower cost entry as well. And the Huyndai Ioniq 5. God damn that thing looks like an 80's Lancia rally car reincarnated 40 years later. WOOF. And don't get me started on the Rivian R1T. If that thing becomes real, I might leg hump it. LOL. The Polestar looks pretty tasty too.

So yeah, this will almost certainly be my last Tesla. Sadly, because I really root for them. I'm so glad to see they are succeeding, but I feel like the house of cards that is FSD is slowly draining all the life out of the company. I really wish, honestly, that they had never gone down that route. They have hitched their wagon to that horse but I don't think they ever needed to. We would have bought the cars anyway with just EAP. I did, and I was super happy! While people on here really think it's cool I think of those half a million cars they sold last year, less than 100k of the owners probably cared about FSD. Is there data on the take rate?

Anyway, rambling rant over. I'll keep driving my Model 3 for now but I'm already mentally shopping it's replacement. The kids will miss the YouTube and the Farts, and I'll miss the Supercharging network on longer drives. But that's not enough to keep me around.

I was going to reply to the OP when I started reading this thread, but you have written EXACTLY what I was going to say. I have a 2017 MS 100 D that my wife and I like a lot; it's her daily driver, as well as the car we take from home to our vacation house 300 miles away. We can just make that trip on a charge in the summer, but given how many Superchargers there are along the way (NJ Turnpike and NY Thruway) getting a boost is no big deal.

As the former owner of 2 car dealerships (Cadillac & BMW), I was pretty much alone among my colleagues in supporting Tesla's retail plan. The same folks that I heard ranting about wholesale cancellations of dealership franchises during the 2010 GM & Chrysler bankruptcies- "Let the market decide!" they said- didn't seem to want the market decide if Tesla could provide a customer experience on par with independent dealers. While I supported the laws that prevented manufacturers from going into retail competition with their own dealers, I didn't see why Tesla, which had no dealers, shouldn't be allowed to sell their own stuff. Our personal experience with the purchase and service on our 2013 and 2017 Model Ss was what I would consider to be equivalent to other brand dealerships' CX.

Fast forward to today, and it's becoming increasingly clear that Tesla is either unwilling or unable to maintain those standards. I can't imagine any other OEM allowing one of their dealerships to completely eliminate the ability of a customer to call the dealership and speak to someone locally on the phone. I currently have 5 cars in the fleet. 2 are purely for fun (2005 Chevy SSR and 2005 Morgan Aero 8), one's a little impractical (Fisker Karma), and 2 have real utility (Model S & Jeep Wrangler.) In answer to the original question here, I have a Hummer EV truck reserved to replace the SSR, and I'm likely to replace the S with a Cadillac Celestiq when it comes out, which should be just about right for my replacement cycle; I am still a Cadillac fan at heart.

Like this poster, I am rooting for Tesla to succeed. They pretty much invented the modern practical EV. My personal opinion is that Tesla needs a leader of the business that is not Elon Musk. He has that at SpaceX in Gwynne Shotwell; they need someone like that at Tesla. I have been inside the auto industry my entire working life. I know what it takes to get and keep a customer. Right now Tesla is not providing that, while manufacturers from Audi to Volvo are.

So to answer the question: I will not be buying another Tesla given their current level of customer service.