-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
When can we expect to see a CCS Adapter for the Model S?
- Thread starter DCEV
- Start date
Cheburashka
Active Member
This is a terrible argument and impedes the adoption of EVs in general.
People wouldn't buy a car that could only fuel up at Chevron and not Shell. This is what this looks like to someone who is new to EVs.
The fragmentation and lack of interoperability is very detrimental.
I love the irony of this post.
Looking over my charging history I find I have used mode CHAdeMO stations than SCs but all of those, with a single exception, have been in Canada. I think having the CHAdeMO adapter on board is a good idea as backup but with the Tesla network being what it is, I don't think it is really necessary in the US. It is necessary in the parts of Canada I drive in.
The current crop of DC chargers by other than Tesla have one CHAdeMO port and one CCS. Thus there is no need, IMO, for a CCS adapter. The newer stations (EA) generally seem to have multiple CCS but at least one CHAdeMO. It appears that CHAdeMO is being phased out but as they won't be removing those CHAdeMO connectors for quite some time I just do not see a need for a CCS adaptor at the current time in the US or Canada. Were one offered I would not buy it. But were one available and were I approached by a new Tesla owner asking my opinion as to whether he should buy one or not I'd say "Yes."
The current crop of DC chargers by other than Tesla have one CHAdeMO port and one CCS. Thus there is no need, IMO, for a CCS adapter. The newer stations (EA) generally seem to have multiple CCS but at least one CHAdeMO. It appears that CHAdeMO is being phased out but as they won't be removing those CHAdeMO connectors for quite some time I just do not see a need for a CCS adaptor at the current time in the US or Canada. Were one offered I would not buy it. But were one available and were I approached by a new Tesla owner asking my opinion as to whether he should buy one or not I'd say "Yes."
SoGA Fan Club
Member
I'm not sure how you got from my post that I want every charger to be unique to certain cars, but I'll reply to your post as if I did. I'm thinking I'm simply not being very clear in my posts in this thread, because, when I say, "The sky is blue", I'm getting replies like, "What have you got against corn fields?" - so I'll try to do a better job of wording my posts to be more clear.
I don't think ANYONE wants chargers to be proprietary. But, what is Tesla supposed to do? They would have never been able to sell many cars without fast chargers to allow long distance travel and there simply were ZERO chargers available along interstates and major highways. Since there were no other manufacturers making EVs that even had the potential of long distance travel in 2012, Tesla had no one to work with in either the design of their charger, or the cost. So, they did what they had to do - build their own charging network. Tesla even opened up their patents so that others could use some of their technology and be able to use Tesla's chargers (as long as they shared in the cost). I'm not sure why (I'd guess pride), but no one has taken Tesla up on this offer.
Instead, other charging standards have been created. CCS seems to be the standard of choice. But, if we are to make all chargers able to be used by all cars, Tesla would have to open their chargers up to other manufacturers. Why would they do this when they have invested hundreds of millions in their charging network? And even if Tesla wanted to do this, it may not be technically possible. And if so, it may not be economical to do so (ie, an adapter would have to be made along with intelligence built-in to know the various different models of cars, or Tesla would have to convert their chargers to CCS - and build a reverse adapter for the existing cars that don't have a CCS plug).
I'm totally with you on every charger being able to be used by every EV - but how do we do that? And you also cannot compare charging stations to gas stations. Gas stations have to be very plentiful because they provide 100% of all ICEV refueling. On the other hand, for most EV owners, 95% of their charging is done at night at home. For most people, charging outside of home is done only when traveling.
One person mentioned having to drive 200-250 miles per day so they need a charging station in the vicinity of their home. However, if we look at the trend, Tesla is now up to 325 miles of range for the 3 and X, and 370 miles for the S. The first Teslas were 208 and 265. As these numbers climb above 400 miles, there will be less and less need for these "close to home" chargers. There are simply very few people that drive over 325 to 350 miles in a day around their home.
So, if we really think about it, the more range you have, the less you need a charger, and the less often you need a charger. I am hopeful that the range is able to quickly move over 400 so that the need to build 100,000 charging stations is negated.
But, the most important thing to remember is that there are hundreds of thousands of chargers that are EXACTLY alike, will work with any EV, and will take care of at least 75% of overall charging needs - people's homes. And if they leave home with over 400 miles of range, the only way they will need a charger is if they are traveling long distance. That's what we need to get to.
Last edited:
Options are good, they are always good. But coming from an i3 I was so happy to move to Tesla and the Super Charger network.
After I'd finally find a public charger, that's when the sweats started to set in. My hands were trembling as I fumbled in the glovebox for the bundle of subscription cards I had. Then I would pull myself together, take a deep breath and exit the car. "Oh God oh God, please let this thing work. Dear Lord I will never ask another favor of you, but please kick start this bloody thing for me". Next I'd stare at it's little screen and poke a few buttons while curious onlookers approached. By now you are drenched in sweat as you quickly try and read the instructions which are invariably located on a sticker down at knee height. You wave card after card at the RFID reader, nothing. Then you spot the QR code and the reference to a web site. Jump back in the car to get your reading glasses, why do you forget them ever time! You know you will need them. OK I found the web site on my phone here, sh** I need to register. Why does it want all this information? Are they going to steal my identify? Who cares we just gotta get this thing going, the curious onlooker crowd has swelled to almost 20 and I cant fail now. The future of electric cars is riding on..... What? $ per charge, Yc/kWh up to ZkW or Bc/kWh over Ckw multiplied by the number you first though of. OK OK just go I don't care what it costs! Finally if you are lucky you hear the satisfying clunk of the charger starting.
My therapist says I am getting better and it helps to share feelings with friends.
After I'd finally find a public charger, that's when the sweats started to set in. My hands were trembling as I fumbled in the glovebox for the bundle of subscription cards I had. Then I would pull myself together, take a deep breath and exit the car. "Oh God oh God, please let this thing work. Dear Lord I will never ask another favor of you, but please kick start this bloody thing for me". Next I'd stare at it's little screen and poke a few buttons while curious onlookers approached. By now you are drenched in sweat as you quickly try and read the instructions which are invariably located on a sticker down at knee height. You wave card after card at the RFID reader, nothing. Then you spot the QR code and the reference to a web site. Jump back in the car to get your reading glasses, why do you forget them ever time! You know you will need them. OK I found the web site on my phone here, sh** I need to register. Why does it want all this information? Are they going to steal my identify? Who cares we just gotta get this thing going, the curious onlooker crowd has swelled to almost 20 and I cant fail now. The future of electric cars is riding on..... What? $ per charge, Yc/kWh up to ZkW or Bc/kWh over Ckw multiplied by the number you first though of. OK OK just go I don't care what it costs! Finally if you are lucky you hear the satisfying clunk of the charger starting.
My therapist says I am getting better and it helps to share feelings with friends.
This story affirms your public-fast-charge PTSD.
In theory I'm not actually a huge fan of "proprietary" charging networks such as the supercharger network. In practice, though, it is clear that the existing supercharger network is absolutely the right thing for tesla to have done. First, it was created when there was no alternative, second it massively streamlines the interaction, and lastly it has standards where the network isn't gummed up with slow "fast charging" users. It will be interesting to see how Tesla accommodates throttled S/X users in the future.
I only have one external membership, chargepoint, because my workplace has a free L2 charging station using chargepoint.
I used a command strip thing to attach my key fob to my chargepoint card so I can keep it all on my keyring. I would say "don't judge me" but I actually wouldn't care (much) if you do judge me. Judge away!
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
None. Nor will there be any time soon, and when there is, you won’t need to ask here to know about it.
Can you cut that the shape of your keyfob?
Is there a reason why the CCS charging is so easily implemented in Europe but not in the US? Is there something with the US cars that make the possibility of a CCS adapter hard to implement?
Guess what, that's exactly what has been done in Europe. All superchargers are now CCS. The Model 3 charge port is CCS. There is a CCS adapter for Model S and X. And the CCS standard includes a data link for making the car and charger communicate (for identifying the car, etc...)
The only thing that wasn't done yet is allowing non Tesla cars to charge on CCS Superchargers, but that's a pure deliberate software restriction, because they have no commercial deal or pricing system for this (yet).
While the Superchargers in Europe have a CCS plug they don't talk CCS to the car, so it isn't just because they don't have pricing, etc. They also don't have any way for someone to pay/authenticate at the site. (Since my understanding is that no current car supports the new plug-n-charge feature where you don't have to pay/authenticate to the CCS charger.)
I think the main difference is that in Europe Teslas used the standard Type 2 inlet on the car while in the US they used a proprietary inlet. So for Europe they could just add the extra two pins that CCS Type 2 uses to the car. In the US you would have to replace the whole inlet, which would then mean that all of the destination charges and Tesla EVSEs could no longer be used with the car.
They talk to the car. When charging a Tesla on a Ionity charger you see the SOC On the charger display screen. So the datalink is definitely working. And this is the reason why pre raven need a hardware upgrade to use the CCS adapter, CCS chargers will not charge without a datalink.
Could this data link be retrofitted to pre-raven Model S cars for a future adapter?
A CCS adapter would be so much more useful in the future than a CHADEMO adapter.
As I wrote before, this retrofit exists and is proposed in European service centers. It costs about 500€, adapter included. The adapter only is 250€, and is generally given when purchasing a raven in Europe.
Ravens don’t need any retrofit, just the adapter,
Sure but that has nothing to do with the plug and charge feature that nobody supports yet.
Similar threads
