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When did vampire losses reduce to nearly 0?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by esk8mw, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. esk8mw

    esk8mw Active Member

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    I'm one of those poor souls still fighting my condo board to let me install an outlet. So, I've been going almost a year now with no home charging and therefore do everything I can (always connected off, energy savings on, range mode, no preconditioning) to minimize vampire losses to reduce the charging trips I have to take.

    In my pre-refresh December 2015 90D, I would routinely see 2-3 miles per day lost to vampire drain overnight. This is in a heated garage kept around 65-70, so nothing would be kicking on to modify the pack temp. I was on whatever software version was right before 8.0 when I sold it.

    Now I recently acquired a May 2016 P90DL (107xxxx-C battery pack) and my vampire losses are essentially 0. I've seen it sit for 18+ hours and still show the same range. I've never seen more than a 1 mile change, so the difference is dramatic. The only things I can think of that have changed:

    - pre-refresh to refresh
    - regular 90 to a P
    - different chemistry in the 107xxxx-C packs?
    - software version 8.0
    - something else?

    Has anyone else noticed a difference in vampire drain since 8.0 came out? With a couple reports from others we could probably pinpoint where the change occurred.
     
  2. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    I still see 6 miles per day loss in my 2015 p85d.
     
    • Informative x 1
  3. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    I'm losing around 8 miles a day with teslafi on with 8.0
     
  4. jdw

    jdw Member

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    Energy Saving on and Always Connected off allows the car to sleep, which elimnates almost all the vampire drain - as long as you are not leaving Remote S or the Tesla app or Visible Tesla etc. running. Thanks to Teslafi detailed logging I realized that all those programs either wake or keep the car awake regardless of the energy settings.

    Teslafi's sleep settings really work quite well and still provide good detail. Not to mention good insight into what wakes the car up.
     
  5. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Takes too long to wake up when I get in the car, or to turn on climate control remotely. Energy savings on and always connected on seems to reduce startup time when getting in the car, only the instrument display has to boot.
     
  6. No2DinosaurFuel

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    My drain is essentially 0 miles per night. I have a 90D with old fascia.
     
  7. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    I'd like to see data on the "0" mile loss. It's too easy see no loss if your drive cycle is timed correctly, i.e. the 12V battery was just topped off as you were driving. The vampire range loss occurs in a burst when the DC-DC converter starts up to charge the 12V system, you have to let the car sit long enough for multiple 12V charge cycles before you can say what the actual loss rate is, otherwise the sampling error is huge.
     
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  8. Larry Hutchinson

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    WOW! It really is zero.

    I had 86 miles Friday at 6PM and now, Monday at 10:15AM, it is still 86.

    I checked with my phone and then had to go to the car to verify.

    This with always connected on and it connected right away.

    2016 refresh , 70 non-D.

    If this is true, and not a software reporting bug, it means the end of 12V battery failures.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

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    I charged my 2015 85 to 237 miles yesterday evening. Right now, it's showing 234 miles. I wonder why this is not consistent....
     
  10. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    I measured 1.37 miles lost over 21 hours with always connected off and energy save on. Still not a large enough sample size to be accurate.
     
  11. Larry Hutchinson

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    Wonder if it depends on the build date. People should at least report if their car is the 2016 refresh or not. Also, I am assuming everyone is on 8.0.

    BTW, when I got in my car about an hour later, it was down to 85 (from 86) and when I drove 2.5 miles to work, it was down to 81.

    Curiously, my phone did not connect and I had walk out to the car to get the reading and even the phone said it was waking the car. Now it says it is connected but is just spinning. Gave up.
     
  12. greenbert

    greenbert Member

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    I have a 2012 P85 running version 8.0 and I still have nightly losses averaging about 7 miles. My charging is usually complete around midnight or 1AM. I'm measuring my loss based on the mileage the car had when charging was complete compared to what I see on the gauge when I get in the car at about 8:30AM. So the 7 miles are lost in about an 8-hour timeframe.

    On a good night, loss will only be 3 or 4 miles. On a bad night, I've seen a loss of 10 miles. I have "Energy Saving" on and "Always Connected" off. This dynamic, by far, is one of my least favorite characteristics of the car. I dream of a day (night) with zero miles lost!
     
  13. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Your hardware probably lacks the ability to sleep/wakeup reliably. Have you tried using "power off" when you park overnight to see if that helps?
     
  14. greenbert

    greenbert Member

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    Oops, I should have mentioned that my 12v battery was just replaced in August 2016 and I've seen no difference in vampire loss since then.
     
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  15. esk8mw

    esk8mw Active Member

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    With posts like this, I have to assume there have been hardware changes. Like I said, I noticed a big difference moving from a late 2015 90D to a mid 2016 P90DL. It seems like there is enough data re: various cars being on 8.0 and still suffering losses to rule out a software update being the reason for the change in my case.
     
  16. greenbert

    greenbert Member

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    Thank you AWDtsla. I had high hopes for the "power off" feature, figuring it would be the garlic that would repel the vampire. I've tried it numerous times, being careful to not do anything to inadvertently turn the car "back on." Unfortunately, the power off feature has no discernible effect on my loss...I'm curious if the power off feature has helped others? Thanks for raising this.
     
  17. No2DinosaurFuel

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    not sure if it's new hardware or not, but I have not experience high vampire drain. I have it set to Energy Save On and Always Connected On. I lose around 0-2 miles per night. I do have my car connected to wifi. Not sure if that helps or not. Like I said previously I have 2016 90D old fascia. April-June build I think the last ones that were built on the old fascia.
     
  18. greenbert

    greenbert Member

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    Does anyone have any recommendations for logging software or app that might help me isolate the problem? I've read about some of the choices, but I'm not a technical person. Tesla keeps telling me that everything is normal, and so I don't anticipate getting much help on that end. It seems like there is a range of losses that people are routinely experiencing, but I would like to get mine as close to zero as possible.
     
  19. Jbwelch17

    Jbwelch17 New Member

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    I'm interested in what settings you used for zero loss. Last night I lost six miles (from 148 to 142) and I have a refreshed 2016 90D. I do currently have energy saving off and always connected on. Do those settings really have that much impact?
     
  20. BertL

    BertL Active Member

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    Yes Energy Savings on my S90D has a big impact -- about 6 miles/day loss when OFF. Always Connected is an additional 1-2 when checked. There are older threads with more detail on this. Net is: After doing the combination of tests on those settings across multiple days after a i took delivery last Fall, I settled on Energy Savings ON, Always Connected Checked and generally loose 0-2 per day if my car is left locked in my garage, and at the lowest end of that when I don't do any Tesla App/Remote S check-ins, handles presenting, doors being opened, etc. At least once I had my MS show as not loosing anything in one day since 8.0 was installed, but I honestly believe that was just a rounding coincidence how the integers are displayed -- not actually zero.

    I kept the settings that way until recently with 8.0. I prefer to listen to USB Music nearly 99.9% of the time I'm in my MS. When Energy Savings is ON, the crazy firmware causes the USB device to be rescanned most of the time you re-enter your MS (even after just 10 mins running into the store and back, not just after deeper sleep), so one is left in silence for several minutes while Media Player rescans your USB flash Drive, then starts playing again. Its very annoying to people like myself that like listening to their own music, and now have to waste electricity to recharge my MS more often to deal with the increase in vampire loss. :mad:
     
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