When did you start to see battery degradation

[Candleflame]

...

Have you got ScanmyTesla and have checked how much error the battery estimate has? I.e. by discharging to near 0% and checking how much error the voltage has. Coz mine is off by about 2-3%, suggesting I have perhaps 2-3% more range than it indicates.

 

[Wol747]

I may be mistaken but doesn't the indicated range derive only from a calculation by the computer? I don't think you can measure what energy is in the battery pack, only calculate it from an assumed amount when full and the energy used since then.
If so then it's actually not helpful to compare indicated range or indeed energy.

 

[doggy1]

It seems to me that the BMS is doing cell voltage measurements and tracking plus Coulomb counting (i.e. always counting amps into and out of the battery pack). You can see the cycles and amp-hours and voltage differentials in ScanMyTesla. So the car systems definitely know about how much energy is in the pack although there are always going to be minor errors due to estimation when the battery is neither "flattened" nor max charged. I think the Tesla advice (for LG and Pana packs) to not charge beyond 80% except immediately before a long trip (or similar demand scenario) makes eminent sense for maximising longevity.

As a matter of interest, my Renault Zoe suffered an out of character drop in SOH of 3% when the charging failed and it sat in a workshop at 10% or lower SOC for just over 2 months. The curve of SOH is smooth except for that sudden jump. LG cells of an earlier chemistry (same as Kona) than MIC Model 3LR/P. So don't let your car sit at low SOC (0->perhaps 30%?) for any lengthy period.

 

[Wol747]

Following on....
Many posters adamantly state that percentage is better than "range": I just don't get this!
Given that both are calculated, I can't see what information that "percentage" shows has any real use. Sure, you need to mentally adjust what the shown range actually means knowing how your personal consumption changes things, as you would with percentage.

 

[paulp]

Following on....
Many posters adamantly state that percentage is better than "range": I just don't get this!
Given that both are calculated, I can't see what information that "percentage" shows has any real use. Sure, you need to mentally adjust what the shown range actually means knowing how your personal consumption changes things, as you would with percentage.

Percentage is 0-100% regardless of degradation, so if you’ve decreased 20% battery charging capacity it will still be 100%. I prefer range. I like to know roughly how much distance I have left. I also never check or even think about degradation, just as I didnt think about degradation of my ICE.

 

[technerdx6000]

Have you got ScanmyTesla and have checked how much error the battery estimate has? I.e. by discharging to near 0% and checking how much error the voltage has. Coz mine is off by about 2-3%, suggesting I have perhaps 2-3% more range than it indicates.

I do have ScanmyTesla. Haven't looked at the error, but the only time I charged fully to 100% it was showing 4.199V per cell.

Next time I fully discharge (don't know when, try to avoid that) I will have another look.

I do find though, when I charge to 75% overnight, often when I go to drive the next day the battery is sitting at 77-79% as per the Tesla UI. I think the BMS has recalculated during this time. Although showing a higher percentage charged than set percentage isn't great when considering degradation. Would be nice if the BMS recalculated down (i.e 73-71%).

 

[Candleflame]

I do have ScanmyTesla. Haven't looked at the error, but the only time I charged fully to 100% it was showing 4.199V per cell.

Next time I fully discharge (don't know when, try to avoid that) I will have another look.

I do find though, when I charge to 75% overnight, often when I go to drive the next day the battery is sitting at 77-79% as per the Tesla UI. I think the BMS has recalculated during this time. Although showing a higher percentage charged than set percentage isn't great when considering degradation. Would be nice if the BMS recalculated down (i.e 73-71%).

if you go back a few pages someone linked to a voltage table. Really anything below 20% is fine to look at the table.

BMW will always underestatimate rather than overestimate. So after voltage check range will go up. Only exception is if you get a positive recalibration but that hasnt happened to me yet.... unfortunately...

 

[aegidius]

I think the BMS has recalculated during this time.

The one time I went down to a very low charge (28km left on the dash) I charged up for a few minutes at a supercharger, and arrived home with 180km. The next time I got in the car, it was reading 195km. Some sort of recalibration must happen each time you charge, I'm guessing (otherwise coulomb counting would gradually drift) but you only notice it when it's been at extremes of SOC. I never charge above 80% (335-340km) except when going on a road trip.

 

[UncleCreepy]

Indicated 508 km at first, now at 55455 km it's down to 469 km. 2020 LR AWD. I usually charge to 90%.

 

[Vostok]

My wife has taken Slartibartfast to Melbourne (am I jealous? YOU BET I AM JEALOUS) and so I charged it to 100% the night before, and the console and App reported 475 km range at the start the next morning. So, an apparent 5% degradation in 2 years, which is not too shabby, especially if the degradation slows down a lot from here.

In contrast, our LEAF lost 35% capacity in just over 5 years and so we missed out on a warranty battery replacement.

 

[Candleflame]

My wife has taken Slartibartfast to Melbourne (am I jealous? YOU BET I AM JEALOUS) and so I charged it to 100% the night before, and the console and App reported 475 km range at the start the next morning. So, an apparent 5% degradation in 2 years, which is not too shabby, especially if the degradation slows down a lot from here.

In contrast, our LEAF lost 35% capacity in just over 5 years and so we missed out on a warranty battery replacement.

what car and what year do you have?

 

[Vostok]

what car and what year do you have?

Are you referring to the LEAF? It is a 2012 ZE0 model, purchased 2014.

 

[Wol747]

Bearing in mind that the numbers are the cars' calculated ranges, my MS LR indicated ranges have been:
April 2020 (as delivered) 585Km
Sept 2020 607Km
Feb'y 2021 606Km
Dec 2021 595Km

I have no issue with that!

 

[Candleflame]

Are you referring to the LEAF? It is a 2012 ZE0 model, purchased 2014.

no your tesla.
Most people with early Teslas seem to have quite heavy degradation. This seems to be primarily the stealth/nonstealth performances from Aug/sep 2019. So I wonder if you got your car after.

 

[Vostok]

no your tesla.
Most people with early Teslas seem to have quite heavy degradation. This seems to be primarily the stealth/nonstealth performances from Aug/sep 2019. So I wonder if you got your car after.

As per my sig, my M3 LR was delivered 20 Dec 2019.

 

[Candleflame]

As per my sig, my M3 LR was delivered 20 Dec 2019.

yeah i reckon given that you have a long range (never existed in aus initially, the LR was a stealth performance) you probably have a different battery production line..... further shows that the heavy degradation was probably just a batch of really poor batteries

 

[Flatbat]

yeah i reckon given that you have a long range (never existed in aus initially, the LR was a stealth performance) you probably have a different battery production line..... further shows that the heavy degradation was probably just a batch of really poor batteries

I don think so. My LR was delivered within a day or two of @Vostok, likely the same battery batch and I see 10% loss in the same period and a range down to 446km. So I have heavy loss and am not stealth nor Performance. Have AB though, so that may be a factor.

 

[Candleflame]

I don think so. My LR was delivered within a day or two of @Vostok, likely the same battery batch and I see 10% loss in the same period and a range down to 446km. So I have heavy loss and am not stealth nor Performance. Have AB though, so that may be a factor.

446km is more than 10% as the car starts with higher than rated range before you see degradation. 445km is i think 68kwh which is around 14%.

Also again, I find it interesting that you also have such heavy degradation in Melbourne which is while hot compared to europe really not that hot in general for EVs.

 

[technerdx6000]

Will be interesting to see if the degradation levels off. I haven't been graphing the rate of degradation, but with 13% degradation in 70000km, assuming a linear rate, that will take me to 35% degradation by the time the warranty period is up. Tesla warranties 70% capacity after 192000km or 8 years.

 

[Anubis]

My range has had an interesting time over the last 2 months...

Teslafi noted a 25KM drop off early October. Then late November I did a 1,000KM trip and it jumped back up.
I think the jump back up was around the time I charged to 100% on the Mudgee NRMA charger.
Otherwise, my degradation is about 8.3% over it's life.

btw, my TeslaFi fleet battery comparison settings are rather tight with settings of at least 80% SOC, 2019 SR+, 100Miles and 5 degrees. The last data point on the graph has me compared with 7 other cars, but is typically 15 - 25 cars. TeslaFi also says there are 473 cars that match mine in their database.