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Which? Critisises Tesla Reliability
- Thread starter Sparkeur
- Start date
Most reliable brands from the actual faults reported in the 2020 survey for 0-3 years age of vehicle: Honda, Hyundai, Lexus, Mazda,
The most reliable German brand is VW (but in 20th place) followed by Audi, BMW, Mercedes
Least reliable Ssangyong with Smart, Land Rover and Tesla also at the bottom end of the table.
The order is similar for cars 3 to 8 years with Tesla not far off the bottom of the table. EDIT ... not quite as Mercedes and Audi end up much nearer the bottom of the table ... just a few places above ... Tesla (we've nothing to be proud about!)
The most reliable German brand is VW (but in 20th place) followed by Audi, BMW, Mercedes
Least reliable Ssangyong with Smart, Land Rover and Tesla also at the bottom end of the table.
The order is similar for cars 3 to 8 years with Tesla not far off the bottom of the table. EDIT ... not quite as Mercedes and Audi end up much nearer the bottom of the table ... just a few places above ... Tesla (we've nothing to be proud about!)
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phil4
Member
Most of Tesla's traditional car company competition have wisely decided not go head on. That's why instead we've seen many smaller and cheaper EV's (Leaf, Kona, eNiro etc),.
Now we're starting to see some start to encroach on the more lucrative upper end, with things like the eTron, iPace etc. All high margin, expensive but also SUVs which seem to be the most popular thing on the planet.
There's two issues with this. One is as said Tesla will begin to get competition, and secondly they'll not enjoy their first to market benefits and or have limited options to grow. For example the rumoured $25,000 car is great, but there's already plenty of cheaper EV's at the moment. They're just not Teslas... so as they're not first they'll then need a USP.
That all being said, their goal is to accelerate the move to sustainable transport. If everyone does that for them, then I guess they're still meeting their goal.
I think we all agree though that over the next few years there will be more and more competition and Tesla will find it harder.
Now we're starting to see some start to encroach on the more lucrative upper end, with things like the eTron, iPace etc. All high margin, expensive but also SUVs which seem to be the most popular thing on the planet.
There's two issues with this. One is as said Tesla will begin to get competition, and secondly they'll not enjoy their first to market benefits and or have limited options to grow. For example the rumoured $25,000 car is great, but there's already plenty of cheaper EV's at the moment. They're just not Teslas... so as they're not first they'll then need a USP.
That all being said, their goal is to accelerate the move to sustainable transport. If everyone does that for them, then I guess they're still meeting their goal.
I think we all agree though that over the next few years there will be more and more competition and Tesla will find it harder.
Thankfully many of the things that Tesla needs to improve on are absolutely not rocket science!! If it was rocket science they would probably have them solved by now. It's the less glamorous basics of fitting things together carefully and finishing/presenting the car. It can be done!
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
It can indeed be done. The Japanese manufacturers seemed to learn pretty quickly that they could gain a good reputation and maintain a loyal customer base just by improving quality for what were mainly fairly affordable models of car. I owned a Honda C77 motorcycle as a student, probably the most unreliable heap of junk imaginable. It had great performance, but something fell off it or went wrong every time I rode it. Within ten years Honda were producing world class motorcycles, in terms of both performance and reliability. Took them longer than that to perfect decent welds on the frame, mind . . .
Spacep0d
Active Member
Wasn't the Model 3 reported as one of the MOST reliable cars in the U.K., if not they most reliable? Weird contradictory news.
Eh, no. Not that I've ever read. Do you have a link? (Don't know where that might have come from! )
The recent report was focussed on brands and so the Teslas in the overall reliability scale will be S and X as well as Model 3 (and M3s were probably in the minority at the time the information was gathered). "Which" magazine in the UK is (I think) similar in approach to the American Consumer Reports. Most of this report is direct membership feedback so is hard to dispute. Sometimes they do come out with opinions which take a certain angle and which may not always be accurate or helpful to the brands in question but when there's a report based on real customer feedback it has to be taken seriously.
Which? base their results on statistical analysis. I can imagine the results have been skewed by the S and especially the X, being much more complex than anything else Tesla have made.
Quality is undoubtably a real problem, but with the Model 3 I see little evidence that it is affecting reliability. Hopefully quality will improve with time and other factories coming into the mix.
The big thing for me that makes Tesla the top of the pile is the driving experience. It goes like shite and just sticks to the road. For that I’m happy to put up with the niggles.
Quality is undoubtably a real problem, but with the Model 3 I see little evidence that it is affecting reliability. Hopefully quality will improve with time and other factories coming into the mix.
The big thing for me that makes Tesla the top of the pile is the driving experience. It goes like shite and just sticks to the road. For that I’m happy to put up with the niggles.
thegruf
Active Member
Tesla are actually very reliable if you consider relaibility as a breakdown that requires recovery.
Tesla do continue to have unacceptable quality issues,
but a lot of the noise about these is still a legacy of the "shorts" trying to bring Tesla down for self-serving reasons, with buyers encouraged to scour these cars for every miniscule mark or minor misalignment and throw their hands up in horror. Prior to Tesla I bet not one of them ever looked at their new car in this way.
Tesla service is a mixed bag, one minute it can be outstanding - I had two wheels trashed by an enormous pothole late one night and the car was undriveable - Tesla arranged a flatbad and towed me 40 miles home - completely FOC, super efficient - I was only an hour late home and it wasnt even Tesla's fault; then they can be utterly useless and worse and have nearly driven me away from the brand - then I remember my appalling experiences with Audi service and no way would I ever go back to that
Note also in surveys Audi often come lower than VW - same company (VAG) same ethos throughout, high rate of common parts, but Audi is more expensive ... and typically has more tech ... more to go wrong.
but ...
Tesla are invariably at or near the top of owner satisfaction surveys.
So just goes to say that the cars are mostly very reliable in terms of breakdowns, can be perfect or sometimes have too many unnacceptable niggles but then latest tech often does, interacting with Tesla can be a lottery but owners love the cars nonetheless.
Tesla do continue to have unacceptable quality issues,
but a lot of the noise about these is still a legacy of the "shorts" trying to bring Tesla down for self-serving reasons, with buyers encouraged to scour these cars for every miniscule mark or minor misalignment and throw their hands up in horror. Prior to Tesla I bet not one of them ever looked at their new car in this way.
Tesla service is a mixed bag, one minute it can be outstanding - I had two wheels trashed by an enormous pothole late one night and the car was undriveable - Tesla arranged a flatbad and towed me 40 miles home - completely FOC, super efficient - I was only an hour late home and it wasnt even Tesla's fault; then they can be utterly useless and worse and have nearly driven me away from the brand - then I remember my appalling experiences with Audi service and no way would I ever go back to that
Note also in surveys Audi often come lower than VW - same company (VAG) same ethos throughout, high rate of common parts, but Audi is more expensive ... and typically has more tech ... more to go wrong.
but ...
Tesla are invariably at or near the top of owner satisfaction surveys.
So just goes to say that the cars are mostly very reliable in terms of breakdowns, can be perfect or sometimes have too many unnacceptable niggles but then latest tech often does, interacting with Tesla can be a lottery but owners love the cars nonetheless.
Thing is it isn’t usually the latest tech that people complain about. It’s the very basics like panel fit, paint quality and cars that have obviously had no PDI before delivery - the things most “legacy” manufacturers have been getting right for decades. People expect teething problems with cutting edge tech, though Tesla is the only company I know of that seems to run some of its software in permanent beta.
Sean.
Active Member
Will be interesting to see if German built Tesla’s have any better QA control / ‘presentation’ / panel gaps etc than the Californian / Dutch assembled cars.
I’ve found German cars, at least in the premium sector, generally better screwed together than those (with the same badge) out coming from stateside.
thegruf
Active Member
We're more likely to get Chinese built ones first, though that is dependant on Tesla strategy for RHD. I am minded to say anywhere other than Fremont is likely to be an improvement.
Germany is not immune to quality issues even in premium brands like Audi and AMG. I had significant trim issues with an A5 as an example that required parts replacing, and I definitely had paint blemises worse than I have seen posted as "utterly unnacceptable" by (imo over-zealous) M3 owners as my detailer took great pleasure in pointing out to me and even more pleasure in billing me for correction!
As for panel gaps I have seen less than perfect gaps when following new Audi's, BMWs et al that would have some Tesla owners armed with feeler gauges in hysteria all over the media.
No Tesla quality is not good enough, the average is definitely improving and there continue to be far too many abberations. But a significant proportion of this is residual effects from the days of the shorts trying to bring Tesla down to serve their own petty egos and pockets.
This is the problem with headlines like 'unreliable'. Because that definition is what most people mean - they're not interested in panel gaps, they just care if the car will get them to work in the morning.
Teslas are full of little faults that should be fixed by proper QA at manufacture (or proper PDI), but (by and large) will work without major issues for their working life. Lumping that all into one word gives a misleading impression - jumped on by the daily mail, and subsequently their readers..
They definitely need to get better. My M3 rattles like a diesel taxi some days.. that shouldn't happen. But it's not about to break down.
Cnixon
Member
...and in the 70s the Japanese were respraying every Jaguar because the finish was not up to their expectations.
Yep, mine too ... solid as a rock. Some road noise transmitted on certain surfaces but thats it. Problem a few days ago when I was disturbed by a barely perceptible tap tap from the centre console ... it turned out to be my aluminium mini torch rolling back and forth! It does prove that the design is sound so long as they are screwed together properly.
Drew57
Active ember
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