Why are people sweating the details?

[chuckd]

Admittedly I am coming from the other side, having had a fairly nice collection of cars for about ten years now. But I will say that I've never gotten excited about any vehicle as much as I have the S. It just has a way of making ICE vehicles feel antique by comparison.

 

[neroden]

Quite often I see posts on this forum about people being upset with options/pricing changes that often to me seem quite insignificant. I also see lots of questions weighing one option vs another, and it all boils down to 'bang for buck' value for these people. I don't understand that for one simple reason:

These are expensive cars!

That's exactly why you do sweat the details. You seem to be coming from some strange mindset where when something gets expensive, you throw caution to the wind. Many of us become much *more* careful about value for money when we look at very expensive things. Does that explain it?

A thought that is missing from this thread is the point that some options are packages of items, some of which have value to the customer and some of which don't. I don't appreciate paying for something I don't want, even if it is $100 and more so at $1000+, even though I can afford it.....

However, many people want (and smaller people need) the power lift gate but don't want all the other premium stuff. Logic of combining premium interior with power lift gate, fog lights, and cornering lights escapes me.

Yes. The buyer who only cares about the power lift gate looks at the pricing and says "I'm being charged $3000 for a power liftgate?!? (Plus some junk I didn't even want)"

 

[Mnlevin]

Let me remind the audience here about the downfall of GM. and other domestic compani. For many years they CUSTOM built the cars, every item was an option. That makes for a very expensive and lower quality build. During the 50s,60s,70s, 80s, the American car companies custom built their cars, while the Europeans and Japanese pretty much made most stuff standard and had a few packages that included incremental upgrades. That may have been much of what lead to their successes. So it is not practical to allow people to pick and choose power lift gate or ambient lighting. All that said, when we purchased our initial offers from TESLA, many optional features today were standard. It is a tricky thing to anticipate the buyers needs and desires putting things into packages but I think they are doing a pretty good job, even though I think the original pricing models were better. I am sure there are many factors that go into the offerings, manufacturing, assembly lines, availability, pricing and demand. They probably know better than me what is the correct balance.

 

[Tamar]

For me TexasEV hits the nail on the head. I suspect my buying style is as far from Chuck's as anyone. :biggrin:

I was never a "car guy". Even as a teenager I was indifferent to cars. (In my generation this was a serious aberration, now not so much.) I purchased my Model S at age 65 and during my entire life I had never purchased a "luxury" car, or spent more than around $18,000. However, I have always been an early adopter and I have always wanted a practical EV. When it first came out I initially put down a deposit on a Chevy Volt, and would have gone through with the deal if my local franchised dealership hadn't acted like a typical franchised dealership and pulled a sleazy move. While surfing the Internet for news on the Volt I ran across a web page listing all the upcoming EVs, including the Model S. Wow! My world changed radically!!

Starting back in 2011 here's my purchase decision process:

1. $50,000 for a car...well, it’s only more than three times expensive than anything I've ever purchased in my entire life. What the heck let's check it out.
2. I think since I only drive about 30 miles per day I should be able to get by with a 40 kWh battery.
3. I start on the forums and someone from my town with the handle DavidM suggests that it might not be a good idea to go with such a small battery without a charging infrastructure in place.
4. Okay, makes sense $60,000 for a car with a bigger battery.
5. Someone from my town whose name begins with "Nigel" arranges for the Model S prototype to be displayed at the Sarasota Yacht Club where he was a director. (Nigel owns a yacht.)
6. Needless to say my wife and I don't own a yacht, but we go to the Yacht club for the first time.
7. Tesla cheats, they have a prototype with custom paint job with 12 coats of Signature Red paint.
8. My wife and I turn the corner; we see the car sitting on the beautiful teak floor with the fancy paint job. My wife exclaims "OH MY GOD!!".
9. I instantly hand $5,000 to the Tesla kid with the iPad. I'm now a reservation holder!
10. A month goes by and I get an email from Tesla. How would I like to fly from Sarasota to Fremont, California for a test RIDE?
11. I don't even like California, but I ask my wife "How would you like to fly to California for a test RIDE? She answers "What are you nuts, fly to California for a 3 minute test RIDE?" Thinking fast I say, "Well I thought we could make it a romantic getaway in WINE COUNTRY." She says "Well why didn't you tell me in the first place, I'll book everything including the trip on the NAPA VALLEY WINE TRAIN."
12. We visit the Fremont factory. The white floors are so clean it looks like you could eat off of them. The factory is decorated to the nines. My wife loves the decorating! I love the multiple free bars serving drinks and finger food against the backdrop of the California Mountains. (Did I tell you we don't have mountains in Sarasota?) We get our test RIDE. It's fantastic, but it doesn't even last 2 minutes. But, Tesla had set the hook a lot deeper. What the heck we might as well get a bigger battery. Okay $70,000 for the car.
13. Now my wife and I start having the first beginning symptoms of a disease that was going to haunt our lives from then on…Teslaitis.
14. I decide to start a car club! The Florida Tesla Motors Club. (Later renamed to Florida Tesla Enthusiasts because Tesla and TMC thought the name was too close to theirs.) Our club grows quickly…Soon we have over 60 families. There are just a couple of problems. Its being run by a non-car guy and nobody has cars (except some really rich guy whose name begins with Nigel who happens to have a beautiful Roadster.)
15. Time marches on, Tesla sells out its Signature Model S. My Tesla madness had grown greatly by this time and I said “Screw it I NEED to get to the front of the line; I need to get on the Signature waiting list.”
16. I’m at a friend’s and club member’s party. Unlike me he’s rich like Nigel. He has a Roadster too and an early reservation on a Model S. He’s a very exacting person. He needs to get a test DRIVE before committing to a Model S and nothing was yet announced regarding test DRIVES. After a number of drinks he and I and our wives decide that we are all going to fly down to Fremont and crash the Founder Series bash. By the time we sober up we already have airline tickets and hotel room reservations. As fate would have it before we fly out to California Tesla announces the first GET AMPED test drive event.
17. The four of us are in our hotel room in Fremont. My cell phone rings. It’s Douglas from Tesla. He asks “How would you like to own a Signature Model S?” I say, “Are you kidding, why do you think I’ve been carrying this check for $35,000 around with me.”
18. The next day we’re at the first GET AMPED event. George Blankenship is telling us to "floor it"!! I hand my $35,000 to a kid in sales. I’m now a reservation holder for a Signature Model S! It of course comes with every option standard except the Panoramic Roof and the Rear Facing Kiddie Seats. What the heck I decide to economize and get just the pano roof, but not the Kiddie Seats…I don’t have kids and my grandson is 30. The price of the car with sales tax $116,000.

There you have it. My decision process. :redface: I swear everything I have stated is the absolute truth.

19. Oh so, Tesla comes out with the D series...I turn to my wife and say "Gee Dear, how about an upgrade to the D?" She says, "Do you know what the "D" stands for?" I say "No what Dear?" She says, "DIVORCE!!"

By the way, our Tesla club is now closing in on 400 families.

Larry

Larry, I am right there with you. I'm currently driving my first new car, for which I paid $18,000 in 2008. My husband is closing in on 300K miles on his 1996 honda civic. And we sweat every detail, but I bet within 6 months we'll be owners. I like reading about others sweating the details, and the advice they get on whether their concerns are valid. It's all part of the buying process before we take the plunge.

It took us close to 3 years to buy our big old Victorian, too. Because we were going to be living in it a long time. Chuck, I suspect you don't sweat the details because if something comes along that you like better, you'll just take the hit and switch. We won't be in that position, we're making a long-term commitment.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Larry, I am right there with you. I'm currently driving my first new car, for which I paid $18,000 in 2008. My husband is closing in on 300K miles on his 1996 honda civic. And we sweat every detail, but I bet within 6 months we'll be owners. I like reading about others sweating the details, and the advice they get on whether their concerns are valid. It's all part of the buying process before we take the plunge.

It took us close to 3 years to buy our big old Victorian, too. Because we were going to be living in it a long time. Chuck, I suspect you don't sweat the details because if something comes along that you like better, you'll just take the hit and switch. We won't be in that position, we're making a long-term commitment.

Tamar,

Excellent point.

This is an ENTHUSIAST forum. We attract a lot of OCD types, myself obviously included. In my view this group breaks down into two broad categories.

1) Those who relish the selection process as part of the fun. It's analogous to the pleasure my wife gets in planning a vacation. It extends the vacation for her. I have a new club member who has always been an early adopter and EV advocate. Now, he has reached the point where he plans on giving his Volt to his teenage son and buying a Model S. He epitomizes the joy of the selection process. He was almost giddy when he learned of the 70D option even though it made him start at ground zero and reevaluate all the selections that he had so carefully crafted before.

2) At the opposite spectrum are the OCD types that infer some devious trick planned by Tesla to sell cars at the expense of resale of their newly purchased cars, or to complicate the selection process by bundling options that they don't want. I suspect that it was this second group, that frets painfully over the selection process, that Chuck was addressing this thread.

Larry

 

[brianman]

Here's the disconnect-- many Tesla enthusiasts, especially early adopters, are not "car people". We would have never bought an ICE that cost even half this much. We bought it because it is the first practical long range EV. Or we bought it because we wanted the leading edge of technology that happened to be a car. Just because the Model S is in the price range of luxury cars, don't assume most owners are into luxury or performance cars. I know many who moved up from a Leaf or a Prius.

While I agree with your first sentence, I sympathize with a chuckd a bit here. Tesla has introduced a compelling product that a lot of people want to pay Model 3 prices for. The reality is they can't do that yet, and it causes angst and other problems.

 

[davewill]

While I agree with your first sentence, I sympathize with a chuckd a bit here. Tesla has introduced a compelling product that a lot of people want to pay Model 3 prices for. The reality is they can't do that yet, and it causes angst and other problems.

Just the way I see it. I went for the LEAF because I just couldn't talk myself into paying the freight (or waiting 2 years) for a Model S. When the LEAF lease ended, I really wanted a Model S...my EV bug was permanently activated. Luckily, I was able to snag my "Tesla Jr." aka RAV4 EV for just around the $34k mark after incentives and Toyota discounts. I looked REAL hard at the S40, but I felt that missing out on Supercharging forever was a bridge too far at that price point, then they discontinued it (and made 60kWh and SC after sale upgrades ) before the LEAF lease ended. The RAV should last me until more affordable 200 mile cars make it onto the market...or I may succumb to Model S envy finally and buy one. My wife wants me to after a couple more years...we have one more kid that needs a car, my wife says she'd enjoy driving the RAV at that point.

If I do go Model S, you can bet it will be a 70D (or equivalent) stripped down as low as I can stand (which may be all the way now that NAV and Supercharging are standard), and I'd be very happy with it. I'm not the type to pine because I didn't get the best toy on the block. The only reason I've got envy now is because I want to be able to drive my EV farther, and the 125 mi or so the RAV will do is just not quite good enough, especially without DC charging...but if I can get from Supercharger to Supercharger and get around California easily, I'd be pretty pumped.

I've looked at the used market, which usually gets you a lot of options, but as long as the incentives are as high as they are, I just can't find the value in a used one, especially here in CA. It's not that I CAN'T afford a Tesla, it's that it doesn't meet my personal values to spend so much on a car, even one this cool. Buying a luxury car to me makes as much sense as buying a luxury blender. I don't mind paying for quality, but I find no value in wood and leather accents or premium audio, or super performance. I was happy driving a Prius, I certainly feel no desire to pay for insane 0-60 times.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

While I agree with your first sentence, I sympathize with a chuckd a bit here. Tesla has introduced a compelling product that a lot of people want to pay Model 3 prices for. The reality is they can't do that yet, and it causes angst and other problems.

This certainly applies to me. Model S is way outside of my comfort zone in terms of price. It is also much too big for my current parking facilities, which cannot easily handle more than a Honda Accord.

Parking aside, a Model S 70D config that I like would cost $83,500 (75k base price, +1k metallic paint, +1.5k pano roof, +2.5k cyclone wheels, +2.5k autopilot, +1k Winter weather pkg) + $1200 fees = $84,700 upfront + tax. Ouch.

My Honda Civic, and Accord before that, both had an upfront price a bit less than 20% of what the 70D would cost. I could reasonably afford something 2x the price of a Honda Civic… which puts me squarely in Model 3 territory. So yes, if I was determined to buy a Model S I would wring my hands over every last penny… and probably just end up buying a used one!

 

[TexasEV]

While I agree with your first sentence, I sympathize with a chuckd a bit here. Tesla has introduced a compelling product that a lot of people want to pay Model 3 prices for. The reality is they can't do that yet, and it causes angst and other problems.

I've not seen anyone on this forum suggest they should be paying in the $40,000 range for a base Tesla. They're trying to not pay much more than the base price of $75,000 or $85,000 and get the features (such as power lift gate) they think are necessary without paying for interior upgrades they're not interested in.

 

[doctorwho]

Its a weird thing this Tesla buying process. I've waited 5 months for my car to be built and delivered, the ship carrying my car is a day or so off docking in Oz and then it may take a couple more weeks to make its way to me. I'm disappointed that it seems to have taken an awfully long time but I'm not concerned that during this time both the D range and the 70kWhr battery have been announced and the option packs and prices have changed a couple of times. Its nearly x4 more expensive that any other cars i've had and will be many times better. At the end of the day it's a car: fun to drive biggrin, practical, cheap to run and quite simple and that's the attraction.

 

[brianman]

I've not seen anyone on this forum suggest they should be paying in the $40,000 range for a base Tesla. They're trying to not pay much more than the base price of $75,000 or $85,000 and get the features (such as power lift gate) they think are necessary without paying for interior upgrades they're not interested in.

I didn't say "should be", I said "want".

 

[Jhall118]

Warning: Rambling.

I'm currently a 26 year old working at a job making around 50,000 year researching brain diseases (graduated in 2012). I love my job, but I didn't get into it for the money. When I was in high school, I briefly remember watching a special on the future of transportation, and saw a black concept roadster. I never had owned a car, but thought it was awesome and forgot about it a week later.

Fast forward a few years, I am sitting at a bus stop waiting for my bus in Seattle, WA. I'm attending University of Washington, dinking around on my smart phone. I was daydreaming about cars, and how cool an electric car would be. After some google searches, I find Tesla's web page. The early details of the Model S was released, and I recognized the roadster. I immediately wanted on. Had no clue how expensive it would be. I wasn't a car guy (always just took the bus, never owned a car), but I was hooked. The entire package of technology, a company making a difference, I was in love.

I obsessed HARD over Tesla. Started browsing forums and would search for news articles every morning. The price was released, and I was a little devastated at first. Still would wake up every morning and read about new Tesla articles in the press. I had to have one.

Excel sheets, turning into a cheapskate (no beer, no going out, Ramen and PB+J). Around the same time I learned about investing from a friend. I had some money saved up, and started maxxing out financial aid to buy shares in Tesla stock (23 year olds are not smart) at $35 a share. 350 shares. Tesla goes to $100 a share. I am a genius. Sell ~75%. Lose some being stupid in options. Still obsessed with Tesla. I still remember watching the supercharger announcement and being floored about free for life roadtrips. Still remember the Deadmau5 song in the intro.

Graduate. Get a job, get married. A year ago, I got a red P85. 35k down (all the money I had). Financed the rest through Alliant. Feeling a little more responsible, I drive for Uber part time to make enough money for the $900 car payment in my part time. Average $30-$35 an hour in my spare time. I give up 10 hours a week during rush hour and weekends to drive people. It's a blast. That is how I afford the car.

Recently was involved in a wreck resulting in a total loss. Luckily, I got a very good insurance offer, including 9.8% sales tax (which I don't pay in Seattle). Just ordered a P85D. I had to skimp on some options because I have to stick to a budget. No air suspension for me. Autopilot will have to wait. If OP doesn't care about money, I can send him an address and he can send me a check (which I wouldn't cash). :wink:

I could buy a house, or 40 Honda Civics. I don't want any of that. I want to support a company changing the world, with an awesome car.

We rent a ****** house with some roommates. Still have my original shares. I might sell them when I retire on mars. People think I am crazy paying $1000 a month on a car. My share of rent is $400. I think they are crazy living in a tiny apartment for $1000 a month with a $400 car payment. Thankfully, I have a very loving wife who let's me have this one thing. Also thankfully, she got a "real" degree as a civil engineer and just got a job making pretty good money. She lets me have the car, and I still pay for it by driving it. It's a sacrifice, but one I happily make every day. If I couldn't drive a Tesla I would still be taking the bus.

Not all Tesla owners are rich older people buying another car for their collection. In my mind, that's what makes the company so special.

 

[breser]

1. 70D, 85D or P85D. Perhaps the only real decision I made. I like fast, so I went with the P85D. The rest is easy.
2. Carbon fiber spoiler, looks cool, add it...
3. Autopilot, of course yes, why would I want to restrict my expensive car features?
4. Smart air suspension, of course yes.
5. High fidelity sound, yes. Why would I want to listen to crappy music on a high-end vehicle?
6. Premium interior package. Of course, why would I want my expensive car to have a less than stellar interior?
7. Executive rear seats. Maybe the only other 'real' option to me. I don't need to cart around 5 people, so I went with the comfort and looks of these seats.
8. Subzero weather package. I live in Oklahoma, but yes! Love a warm seat and steering wheel on the few cold days we get (maybe 10 all year).
9. Rear facing seats. I don't have small kids, and I like the storage room, so no thank you.
10. Sunroof. I like the look both inside and out, so of course.
11. 21 inch grey turbine wheel please, they look far better to me (personal taste here).
12. Paint - red multi-coat. Looks best to me (again, personal taste).
13. Black next generation seats. Feel better, and again, very expensive car so why would I skimp?
14. Carbon fiber interior. Personal choice, I just like it.
15. White Alcantara headliner..... I like the look.

I bought my car before the latest batch of packaging changes. But it's not always about the price. Some of these things have real tradeoffs.

1. 85D because I don't really need the acceleration, it's cute trick to show first time riders, but ultimately doesn't serve a practical purpose unless you go to a drag strip. However, improved range, improved handling and improved capability in adverse weather conditions, ok I'll pony up an extra $4k for that.
2. Not an option on an 85D and I wouldn't have bought it was. Doesn't do much for this car in the looks department. Has no practical purpose. It's just for show.
3. Call it the tech package with autopilot. But yeah the reason I was trading my S85 was for this.
4. Seems useful in some road conditions or steep driveways. Though in retrospect I think it means you're more likely to scrape because the car is lower more of the time than springs would be. It's a cool feature but I might not buy it in the future. Then again I like a cushy ride.
5. Nope. I mostly listen to talk radio in the car, a fancy sound system doesn't improve that. I had Sirius that I eventually turned off. It drops out in the city due to line of sight. Ended up not using it very much so it was a waste of money.
6. Nope. Price was too high for what it was. If it'd been cheaper maybe. The difference in the materials are very subtle. Most people would not be able to tell the difference if they hadn't seen it before.
7. Nope. Don't cart around a lot of people very often. Not willing to dump money into seats for the occasional rear passenger. Let alone suck in other packages I didn't want.
8. Nope. I live in Washington state it's not cold enough to justify it. The few times I'd be some place where it'd be worthwhile doesn't justify the cost. It also increases the cost of windshield replacement due to the heated wipers. I get rocks where I live, I expect to have a replacement windshield eventually.
9. Nope, no kids.
10. Yes. I like the extra head room and the look and I have used sunroofs on past vehicles.
11. Nope. Don't want more fragile wheels/tires. Don't want to replace tires more often. The 19" upgraded wheels are too expensive for what you get. If you really want them buy the aftermarket ones.
12. Yeah I paid extra for a color. I liked the color.
13. Nope. Wasn't available as an option at the time. But wouldn't have ordered them if they did. Seats weren't available to sit in. Existing seats were a known quantity and didn't have an issue with them in my S85. P85D owners were delayed in getting their seats. And in retrospect there waffling on rear next gen seats is not very confidence boosting.
14. Nope. Got the Piano black. None of them really grabbed me.
15. I ended up with the black Alcantara. Not thrilled with the price but didn't like the look of the cloth headliner on my car with grey seats. Much happier with the black headliner. So it was worth the cost.

Difference in the price of my car versus what you gave, about $30k. I could go buy another car for that. Most of my decisions weren't based on price. But were based on what I wanted. No reason to pay for stuff I didn't find useful.

So I don't really see a problem with the people posting about various options because most of the time it's not about the price but in trying to figure out what the right trade offs are for their needs.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Warning: Rambling.

I'm currently a 26 year old working at a job making around 50,000 year researching brain diseases (graduated in 2012). I love my job, but I didn't get into it for the money. When I was in high school, I briefly remember watching a special on the future of transportation, and saw a black concept roadster. I never had owned a car, but thought it was awesome and forgot about it a week later.

Fast forward a few years, I am sitting at a bus stop waiting for my bus in Seattle, WA. I'm attending University of Washington, dinking around on my smart phone. I was daydreaming about cars, and how cool an electric car would be. After some google searches, I find Tesla's web page. The early details of the Model S was released, and I recognized the roadster. I immediately wanted on. Had no clue how expensive it would be. I wasn't a car guy (always just took the bus, never owned a car), but I was hooked. The entire package of technology, a company making a difference, I was in love.

I obsessed HARD over Tesla. Started browsing forums and would search for news articles every morning. The price was released, and I was a little devastated at first. Still would wake up every morning and read about new Tesla articles in the press. I had to have one.

Excel sheets, turning into a cheapskate (no beer, no going out, Ramen and PB+J). Around the same time I learned about investing from a friend. I had some money saved up, and started maxxing out financial aid to buy shares in Tesla stock (23 year olds are not smart) at $35 a share. 350 shares. Tesla goes to $100 a share. I am a genius. Sell ~75%. Lose some being stupid in options. Still obsessed with Tesla. I still remember watching the supercharger announcement and being floored about free for life roadtrips. Still remember the Deadmau5 song in the intro.

Graduate. Get a job, get married. A year ago, I got a red P85. 35k down (all the money I had). Financed the rest through Alliant. Feeling a little more responsible, I drive for Uber part time to make enough money for the $900 car payment in my part time. Average $30-$35 an hour in my spare time. I give up 10 hours a week during rush hour and weekends to drive people. It's a blast. That is how I afford the car.

Recently was involved in a wreck resulting in a total loss. Luckily, I got a very good insurance offer, including 9.8% sales tax (which I don't pay in Seattle). Just ordered a P85D. I had to skimp on some options because I have to stick to a budget. No air suspension for me. Autopilot will have to wait. If OP doesn't care about money, I can send him an address and he can send me a check (which I wouldn't cash). :wink:

I could buy a house, or 40 Honda Civics. I don't want any of that. I want to support a company changing the world, with an awesome car.

We rent a ****** house with some roommates. Still have my original shares. I might sell them when I retire on mars. People think I am crazy paying $1000 a month on a car. My share of rent is $400. I think they are crazy living in a tiny apartment for $1000 a month with a $400 car payment. Thankfully, I have a very loving wife who let's me have this one thing. Also thankfully, she got a "real" degree as a civil engineer and just got a job making pretty good money. She lets me have the car, and I still pay for it by driving it. It's a sacrifice, but one I happily make every day. If I couldn't drive a Tesla I would still be taking the bus.

Not all Tesla owners are rich older people buying another car for their collection. In my mind, that's what makes the company so special.

Yeah great to hear you made the sacrifice for the car. Not everyone is willing to make the sacrifice. I, for one, think tesla priced the car just right to allow for as many people to own it as possible. Someone who make $60K/year can easily swing the car (lower end Model S IMO) if they finance it for 7 years with $20K down and nothing else really but rent and food cost. Like I said sacrifice. Most will say, why not save up for a house, but I figured there is an opportunity cost associated with NOT getting the car now.

So even though I am not ready to stomach the cost of Model S like you did, I totally condone the decision you made! Enjoy the car!

 

[chriSharek]

There is a saying that goes "penny wise, pound foolish". People throw away a heap of money and then try to compensate somehow by collecting scrubs. We have general rule of thumb to never buy a car with showroom price above annual income.

WarpedOne, thanks for this. I feel much better if I live within your general rule of thumb. I now feel that I deserve the darn car! Thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the disconnect-- many Tesla enthusiasts, especially early adopters, are not "car people". We would have never bought an ICE that cost even half this much. We bought it because it is the first practical long range EV. Or we bought it because we wanted the leading edge of technology that happened to be a car. Just because the Model S is in the price range of luxury cars, don't assume most owners are into luxury or performance cars. I know many who moved up from a Leaf or a Prius.

TexasEV, you are spot on. I would not even consider an ICE in this price range. And most EV enthusiasts are in this same boat. It's one thing to spend 100k on an EV, but not on a Panamera, Maserati, or even Corvette.

- - - Updated - - -

When you buy a 100k car, a $2000 option seems like an insignificant difference. That's why all car manufacturers have these options. In relation to the total, these options appear small. The very same person goes grocery shopping and buys the $3 milk instead of the $4 milk. We tend to think it percentages rather than absolute numbers. We think that one milk is 25% more expensive. Or that tooth brush is $1 more than the other and pick the cheap one. And when we buy a car we have no problem spending $8000 or more on extras. It makes no sense from an economical point of view. And some people are smart enough to see it that way and don't buy a $2500 set of wheels or $2500 for slightly better music sound. Because just leaving out these two options is a family vacation right there.

Another explanation is that people see higher or lower value in some options. I think a spoiler is a total waste of money, it has zero value to me. Same as 21 inch wheels. They cost more, and decrease range and increase danger of a flat. Power lift gate: heck yes. I open the back several times every day, it's a major convenience to have it. Dual charger: total waste, CHAdeMo adapter: yes very useful. Everyone has different needs and thus values options differently.

David, so in your opinion, you'd opt for the 85D without the turbine wheels and without the upgraded sound over a completely loaded 70D?

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I've not seen anyone on this forum suggest they should be paying in the $40,000 range for a base Tesla. They're trying to not pay much more than the base price of $75,000 or $85,000 and get the features (such as power lift gate) they think are necessary without paying for interior upgrades they're not interested in.

Which is why Model 3 has massive potential to be an inflection point. There is enormous pent up demand for a car that performs and ranges as well as Model S, but at half the price. I understand why people are stretching for the Model S, because there's no alternative at this time.

Honestly I do not really care about luxury interior finishes, alcantara, and questionably useful forward fog lights. I do care about performance, range, and safety technology.

 

[Cyclone]

I do care about performance, range, and safety technology.

And that is why I am stretching for a Model S. I was going to wait for the Model 3 because the other EV options aren't there on those points for me. Comparing the S to the 3, changes are the S will be slightly safer and that has basically made my choice for me; that, and me being more of a 5-series and E-class person than a 3-series and C-class person. I love driving my mother's IS, but it is cramped in there!

 

[Thud]

Quite often I see posts on this forum about people being upset with options/pricing changes that often to me seem quite insignificant. I also see lots of questions weighing one option vs another, and it all boils down to 'bang for buck' value for these people. I don't understand that for one simple reason:

These are expensive cars!

Any regular ICE car I've ever purchased starts off with a base configuration, and I simply add features I want and leave out others. If the base model was too much, then I looked at a different vehicle. I've never known anybody to purchase a base model of any vehicle anyway.

Here was my purchasing decision process on the P85D

If I had a more limited budget, I wouldn't be buying this car to begin with. I'd buy something I could afford. I don't see buying a +100K car if that's not a no-brainer. Last time I bought a Mercedes, if I whined about the price they would have shown me a cheaper model to start with.

Didn't you say you were leasing? That means you're not buying the car. You're renting it for a few years, but at no point will you own it unless you buy it at the end of the lease.

That is perfectly fine, of course. But I assume you had some financial reason for doing so-- yet you cannot understand the ways in which other people also take the financials into consideration, just because they are doing it a bit differently than you are. Some will reduce the options to better afford the car, others will lease instead of buy.

 

[chuckd]

It is true that I usually lease because I rarely keep a car past 2 or 3 years and you always get killed on trade-in value if you buy/sell in that short of a period. Even with the S, I'm fairly certain there will be the 'next great thing' in 30 months from now (term of my lease), and I'll want to swap up.

Really, I'm glad everybody is figuring out a way to get themselves a model S. I've been working with a friend who's trying to cost justify one, but unfortunately no lending agency he's talked to takes into account the fuel savings. It's unfortunate, since there are very real savings there and the car really is effectively about 15K less than actual price (over time)

 

[Cyclone]

It is true that I usually lease because I rarely keep a car past 2 or 3 years and you always get killed on trade-in value if you buy/sell in that short of a period. Even with the S, I'm fairly certain there will be the 'next great thing' in 30 months from now (term of my lease), and I'll want to swap up.

You would cringe at our car history. A Mazda 626 held for 11 years, a Toyota Corolla held for 10 years, a Toyota 4Runner (3rd Gen) held for 8 years, a Toyota 4Runner (4th Gen) currently at 9 years, a Lexus IS currently at 4 years, a Honda Fit currently at 3 years. None of the cars are leaving when the Model S enters the picture (this will be the first time I have more cars than drivers in this household), but I expect the Model S to stick around as long as the drivetrain warranty is valid.