Why do 3rd party chargers break down so often??

[Keggers74]

This is probably a stupid question, but its something I've been wondering for a long time. It seems to be almost accepted that non-supercharger chargers will routinely break down on a regular basis, and that it is hit and miss as to whether they will be working properly when you arrive and go to use them.

What is it about them that makes them so unreliable? I wouldn't have expected that there is anything particularly complicated about a charger, yet they seem to be impossible to keep running on a consistent basis. What on earth is the cause of them constantly failing, needing resetting, etc.?

 

[Nick77]

I'd imagine they're installed for as little cost as possible. And the less they spend on maintaining them, the bigger their profits.

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

Mix and match of parts. I don't know for sure but I would assume that 3rd party chargers aren't as vertically integrated as Tesla Superchargers. Also I would guess that a lot more parts are used that could potentially go wrong, just having a LCD screen or credit card reader on them adds an additional point of failure.

I've never used a level 3 high speed charger but after watching some of the Ford MME charging sessions they is a very noticeable loud HUM even when 1 car is charging and I've never heard anything that loud when using a Tesla Supercharger.

 

[Adopado]

What is it about them that makes them so unreliable? I wouldn't have expected that there is anything particularly complicated about a charger, yet they seem to be impossible to keep running on a consistent basis. What on earth is the cause of them constantly failing, needing resetting, etc.?

It's certainly something that we all ponder and it's something that needs to improve! There are particular issues with rapid DC charging because in that situation the public charger has to supply its current pretty much directly to the battery pack... but EVs all have different battery packs, manufacturers, voltage ranges with differing charge curve requirements ... it's complicated. In theory the communication protocols will enable the car and charger to negotiate how the power comes in ... but as I understand it that's a major area for problems. Tesla Superchargers know the cars they are designed to work with ... in fact I believe they contain the very same charger modules that are in your car ... just more of them.

With AC charging you would think there should be fewer opportunities for problems but with everyone other than Tesla you still have different ID requirements and payment systems to link up before the charge point is started and stopped. And then there's the physical demands of hardware that gets mishandled, dropped, water ingress, power supply issues ...

 

[SpareHeadOne]

I'd imagine they're installed for as little cost as possible. And the less they spend on maintaining them, the bigger their profits.

I'd guess maintenance and running, I managed to have a chat with a guy fixing a charger in one of my local shopping centres and he said that he was the only engineer in the entire region.

He said that he could only visit each site about once every 6-8 weeks and if he didn't have the right part then it would be his next visit before a point got fixed - to it was theoretically possible for one to be out of action for almost four months.

Add to that the attitude of the "helpline" when I called to report a fault - their system said there was no problem, so it wasn't faulty - and you end up where we are now.

All Tesla have to do is be slightly competent and they make the competition look even worse than they are. I kind of hope that the increased number of point and competition will start to sort it out, but I also think that some contractual terms would help out too (I can't believe that Ecotricity got to keep their exclusive motorway deal while not maintaining their equipment properly for so long).

 

[Neilman]

I was at IKEA Warrington last month and was considering charging my car there while browsing the store.
Found the charging zone but the available charger looked like its plug had been dropped on the ground several times too many and almost looked chewed up.
Decided not to bother with a charge after all.

 

[MrBadger]

I think in addition to technical incompatibilities and poor communications, they are also open to mis-treatment. Compounded with items either not being reported or long time to repair or maintenance scheduled, things just fall into disrepair.

It also doesn't help that many are free - less incentive to fix something thats failing to provide 'no income'.

This one was at the local hospital, pre-COVID times. Clearly it had been in a bad way for some time. They do not get like this on their own accord. This one was iirc just lying on the ground. It quite possibly had been run over with a vehicle.

 

[Cnixon]

How about...once they have got the Government Grant they couldn't give a

 

[Billbrown1982]

How often do you pull onto a petrol station though (before we became so enlightened) and find that the diesel nozzle on the pump you have pulled onto is out of order? Or the entire pump is not working or (this one applies more to hgv pumps) its SUPER SLOW and sounds like its about to explode because its squeaking while its running.

Asda went through a stage on multiple sites where the hose was randomly disconnecting from the nozzle during filling, spilling fuel all over the place. It was rediculous but I never did find out what the cause of it was.

I think a lot of it is down to to, as previously said, cheap installs, poor maintenence and just sheer amount of use.

 

[AndrewGR]

How often do you pull onto a petrol station though (before we became so enlightened) and find that the diesel nozzle on the pump you have pulled onto is out of order? Or the entire pump is not working or (this one applies more to hgv pumps) its SUPER SLOW and sounds like its about to explode because its squeaking while its running.

Asda went through a stage on multiple sites where the hose was randomly disconnecting from the nozzle during filling, spilling fuel all over the place. It was rediculous but I never did find out what the cause of it was.

I think a lot of it is down to to, as previously said, cheap installs, poor maintenence and just sheer amount of use.

TBH I can’t remember visiting a fuel station and finding the pump faulty. On rare occasions one or two pumps might be marked out of order but there would be others available. Nothing like the Ecotricity problems.

 

[Cwmwd]

From my (limited) use of public charging most of the problems seem to be with the ancillary stuff, not the actual "charger". How many time have I seen posts on this very forum along the line sof "charger would not work... called the number... they started the charge remotley" or "out of order so I got a free vend"? Seems to me that the authorization, payment and network back-end components are usually the weak link.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

There's a lack of anyone taking responsibility... if you go to a supermarket charger and it's out of order the staff will tell you it's not their charger and to contact the charger company. The charger company will then say it's the store's responsibility.. So it remains unfixed.

Council chargers are frequently worse.. the council gets a grant to install it and then has zero budget for maintenance so they remain unfixed seemingly permanently.

Another issue is complexity. Tesla tombstones are just a pretty plug holder. The smarts are out of the way in a big grey box people don't notice. If a van runs over a tombstone it's the replacement of a bit of plastic and metal. OTOH every other manufacturer installs multiple complete chargers on a site, where if they get damaged it's a potentially much more expensive fix.

 

[Rustybkts]

I install and support large industrial inverters for varying the speed of motors and have been doing this for more years than I can remember.
They last for years, operate for many hours a day and rarely if ever fail.
Rapids are basically the same electronically with some extra comms and a plug.

Many failures I have noted have been with the touch screen display. These do not last long in bright sunlight and should have push buttons at least as a back up to initialise charging.
Communicating with Apps and contactless cards that need to be checked with the mother ship also causes charging failures.
Decently designed plug holsters are a must. Just look at what DBT on Ecotricity have been installing.......not much better than a hook!

Poor/incompatible software stopped my SR+ charging at a few Charge Place Scotland Rapids last year, either bugging out during a charge or simply reporting "CCS comms fail". In the end I gave up and relied on 13A sockets pre booked with hotels. Always reliable and to date free.

Compare that with Superchargers. All Rapids should bill the way they do and I understand they are built using multiple paralleled chargers for redundancy.
Their electronics are positioned away from the parking area and only posts where cars connect to them with short cables and simple holsters.
Note no confusing display.

 

[Nick77]

Yep I have a BP Pulse near me in which the screen is permanently so dim you can barely see the touchscreen instructions to start the charge. It's been like that on Zap Map for ages with people moaning about it, and BP Pulse have known about it for months and months yet it never gets fixed as they say the charger still "works".

 

[TestPilot]

Yep I have a BP Pulse near me in which the screen is permanently so dim you can barely see the touchscreen instructions to start the charge. It's been like that on Zap Map for ages with people moaning about it, and BP Pulse have known about it for months and months yet it never gets fixed as they say the charger still "works".

BP seem to be trying their absolute hardest to lure people in with marketing and promises, only to smack them round the face with absolutely abysmal customer service. They don't reply to emails, and I've given up trying to call.

 

[Nick77]

BP seem to be trying their absolute hardest to lure people in with marketing and promises, only to smack them round the face with absolutely abysmal customer service. They don't reply to emails, and I've given up trying to call.

I've been chasing them for a month now because my account has been "pending" ever since I signed up, and £20 taken for no credit showing.

I've been badgering them on Twitter and they're trying to chase it up but I keep hearing nothing back and start the cycle all over again.

Once I get it sorted and get my money used, I will make a point of never using them again, unless as a last resort.

 

[GRiLLA]

BP are the best example of this, clearly no interest in taking their knowledge and approach from running petrol stations and applying it to BP Pulse. They know the reliability, location and experience that customers want when fueling, yet do something completely different.
It also irks be when people say that petrol is only expensive because of all the tax, ignoring the overhead of paying for a location and building huge tanks, having expensive pumping equipment, having permanent staffing when the site is open etc. I bet they don't pays for anything other than the electric and a charger when they fit a charger in an existing car park.