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Why use a lead acid 12V battery?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by rceldib, Dec 3, 2016.

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  1. rceldib

    rceldib Member

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    Why doesn't Tesla use a Lithium Ion 12V battery? They make Lithium ion batteries don't they. It would save weight and last longer than lead acid and be a lot less toxic.
     
  2. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    Maybe because it costs less, was readily available, and you don't have a lot of issues to deal with when you jump start it. (I assume you would need more complicated charge controlling with a lithium ion 12v battery.)
     
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  3. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    With the number of batteries they have had to change under warranty, taking labor into account, I would have thought the economic equation would have favored a more durable battery, particularly given the difficult access to it in the earlier cars like mine.
     
  4. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    If they used a Lithium battery, it would have to be temperature regulated for the very cold weather.
    Lead acid works. it's just the Tesla battery is too small for the load put on it.
     
  5. prqpn

    prqpn Member

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    This blog post explains why, and what Tesla could do to make it not so bad.
     
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  6. bishoppeak

    bishoppeak Member

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    Great blog post!
     
  7. rypalmer

    rypalmer Member

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    One key reason is because you can't charge lithium ion batteries when they are cold without damaging them.
     
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  8. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    Never gets below 7 degrees in Sydney! There are lithium batteries sold here for boats. They are a drop in item if your charger can cope with their voltage requirements and you are prepared to pay the cost. No one here talks of temperature management.
     
  9. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Tesla doesn't make vehicles just to sell in Sydney so that's why they go with lead acid?
     
  10. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Goes down to -35 degrees here in Saskatchewan every winter, sometimes -40.
     
  11. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    Great blog ... let's hope that Tesla is reading :cool:
     
  12. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    Is there a Commonwealth battle brewing here?

    Is that -40 C or F? ;)
     
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  13. Zetopan

    Zetopan Member

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    "Is that -40 C or F?"

    Yes.
     
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  14. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    Well, the whole of Southern Europe, Significant parts of Asia, significant parts of the Southern USA, all have "human" temperatures. -40? WTF. Are humans meant to live in conditions like that?

    The polar bears have the right idea. Eat anything and everything and put on as much weight as you want in summer. Get pregnant at the end of summer, then go sleep it all off during winter and emerge svelte and with kids in tow without suffering cold, pregnancy or dieting!! Are they telling humans something, or what!!
     
  15. JetKit

    JetKit Member

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    As the space does not allow to place a larger battery in the original location, how about just adding a second 12V battery in the frunk? Would that help extend the battery life?
     
  16. zwede

    zwede 2013 P85+

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    I would say yes, it would greatly extend the life as it would half the charge cycles.
     
  17. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Seems to me the battery issues were resolved when they switched to AGMs. 52.000 miles and almost 2.5 yrs on my car and not a single battery issue. Plus, I have the REUS sound upgrade and a dashcam running 24/7 so my electrical load on the 12V battery is probably larger than average.
     
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  18. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

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    #18 Sir Guacamolaf, Jan 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
    They were not resolved. AGM battery replaced here. Now they are using some other new tech. ..
    Solutions to the 12V battery,

    1. Don't over-tax the 12v battery so much,
    2. Replace it with a li-ion,
    3. or a bigger battery, or
    4. Make it user-replaceable like my garage door opener. .. but with the front end refresh they've made it much more complex to replace the battery. Not like it was easy before that.
     
  19. zwede

    zwede 2013 P85+

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    I'm going a different way and will use a battery tender whenever the car is parked at the house. This will reduce the discharge cycles and should let the battery live much longer.

    I've had a CTEK 7002 tender for my classic car for years and it has done a great job, so I just ordered a second one for the Tesla. It's beefy for a tender at 7A so it will keep the 12V battery charged even with the vampire drain. I'm thinking having the tender hooked up I won't lose any range over night either which is a bonus.
     
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  20. henderrj

    henderrj Member

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    There's a company with a, well, less than great name, Battmobile, that has a 12 volt lithium ion solution specifically built for and tested in a Model S. Don't know much about it, and I don't own a Tesla, yet, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Still, looks interesting.
     
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