Will the FSD Re-write Include AP and Enhanced AP?

[Gatsojon]

Well, the title says it all really...

What are people's thoughts on the above? Will the re-write be used for the basis of the 'lesser' variants or, as someone speculated on here, are those moving to a 'feature complete' status. If the latter, then perhaps they will stay as is and only the FSD fleet will get the re-write.

You see, 99% of me says it's not worth buying the upgrade to FSD and 98% of says it's not worth getting the newly offered Enhanced AP. But being a man, those 1 and 2% can be terribly influential in my decision making!

Plenty on here are better informed than me - what are your thoughts?

 

[MrBadger]

I am almost certain it will cover every variant of HW3. Even though EAP is capable of running on HW2.x.

Whether some of the new capabilities will filter down I have to EAP no idea - one of the much mentioned new features is reverse summon - whether this is included under autopark or summon on EAP I have not seen. However, as someone previously mentioned, EAP was now feature complete, so all bets are off.

 

[Cnixon]

The 'fleet' includes the background 'shadow' checks being made against decisions made by hands-on drivers. Non FSD drivers are significant contributers to the 'fleet' for future updates. It is highly unlikely that 2 systems would be running at the same time on the same hardware.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

It'll likely be the same codebase but crippled so it behaves as now.. they won't want to be maintaining the old one indefinitely.

Maybe TACC will be smoother, that kind of thing... side effects rather than radical changes.

 

[phil4]

I think the question to ask is will the re-written FSD actually improve driving in the UK, and once done, will Tesla even sell EAP or even AP any more?

I guess what you're asking is is it worth buying EAP now, and will it get upgraded in the future like FSD will. My guess is one of two things... either new FSD will be the only thing upgraded/sold going forward, so no. Or everything from FSD down will be based on the new code, so yes, EAP will get an upgrade.

I think the later is more likely, keeps a consistent codebase, keep everyone with what they've paid for. The issue we might face though is that though the EAP is 98% of what's wanted now, it might not be when FSD can manage all manner of other UK oddities in the future.

 

[Gatsojon]

I think the question to ask is will the re-written FSD actually improve driving in the UK, and once done, will Tesla even sell EAP or even AP any more?

I guess what you're asking is is it worth buying EAP now, and will it get upgraded in the future like FSD will. My guess is one of two things... either new FSD will be the only thing upgraded/sold going forward, so no. Or everything from FSD down will be based on the new code, so yes, EAP will get an upgrade.

I think the later is more likely, keeps a consistent codebase, keep everyone with what they've paid for. The issue we might face though is that though the EAP is 98% of what's wanted now, it might not be when FSD can manage all manner of other UK oddities in the future.

Yep that's the question; will EAP get the re-write and so be safe and useful on the motorway drive. I'm really not bothered about FSD on city streets. But something a little better than the AP, which I use and like a lot when on the motorway), may be the way forward.

 

[Dilly]

Despite feeling (and saying) otherwise for the last 6 months, I upgraded several days ago to full FSD to keep me excited (and on my toes) in my old age.
I felt I wanted the pleasure & pain of the full monty. To my surprise, the wife agreed!
In years to come, the car might be able to take me off to hospital in my comatose state

I mentioned elsewhere
Strong, the force is, on the dark side...

 

[tsh2]

I'm guessing that there will be a HW2 codebase which is mostly complete today, and a HW3 codebase which will be updated to use the re-write for everyone who has suitable hardware (just features disabled). I've not been following the technical threads about what each hardware iteration might be capable of though.

Leaving a proportion of HW3 on the old software model seems to risk worse performance and lost data collection opportunities.

 

[zayn]

the real question is where are you driving in 2020 that either of the feature sets is actually any use ? Still overpriced and a work in progress.

 

[Amiable]

In my view the 'intelligence' aspect of the Model 3 is wildly overrated. When on TACC it brakes heavily for no good reason and even when off TACC - it bleeps and bongs relentlessly thinking it's about to crash into things, and performed an emergency stop with no good reason (car in front turning right across oncoming traffic, my car was decelerating thru regen) - if there's a setting to disable this type of interference I'd like to know. The parking sensors don't even pick up a 6" high sleeper.

With this in mind, the little interest I previously had in FSD has now completely evaporated; notwithstanding the actual driving experience should remain something to be savoured and enjoyed rather than sitting there, anxiously worrying about whether you're about to become one with the dashboard because the car spotted an errant mouse on the road.

 

[GRiLLA]

In my view the 'intelligence' aspect of the Model 3 is wildly overrated. When on TACC it brakes heavily for no good reason and even when off TACC - it bleeps and bongs relentlessly thinking it's about to crash into things, and performed an emergency stop with no good reason (car in front turning right across oncoming traffic, my car was decelerating thru regen) - if there's a setting to disable this type of interference I'd like to know. The parking sensors don't even pick up a 6" high sleeper.

With this in mind, the little interest I previously had in FSD has now completely evaporated; notwithstanding the actual driving experience should remain something to be savoured and enjoyed rather than sitting there, anxiously worrying about whether you're about to become one with the dashboard because the car spotted an errant mouse on the road.

'Relentlessly' ? I'm going to take a note to be wary of other Tesla drivers in Sussex. I get very occasional alerts, and typically when I'm not properly paying full attention. Your poor car is terrified.

 

[LongRanger]

I have noticed when I’m being lazier and country lanes are involved, the car goes into meltdown and starts bonging regularly if it thinks a hedge is about to kiss the side of the car. It isn’t, but the sensors do like to react when you are being less precise and taking lazy lines.

We have a lot of raised hedges in Pemba and it doesn’t seem to like these at certain steering angles.

When I am more focussed and taking more orthodox lines round the same lanes, the car is silent. Sensitive little soul ....

 

[Sean.]

I have noticed when I’m being lazier and country lanes are involved, the car goes into meltdown and starts bonging regularly if it thinks a hedge is about to kiss the side of the car. It isn’t, but the sensors do like to react when you are being less precise and taking lazy lines.

We have a lot of raised hedges in Pemba and it doesn’t seem to like these at certain steering angles.

When I am more focussed and taking more orthodox lines round the same lanes, the car is silent. Sensitive little soul ....

It’s born in the wide boulevards and freeways of California. Hedges are an alien concept!

 

[Teefal]

I'm a high end software architect/manager. Of course they will fork.

"HW3 includes a custom Tesla-designed system on a chip. Tesla claimed that the new system would process 2,300 frames per second (fps), which is a 21x improvement in image processing compared to HW2.5, which is capable of 110 fps. The firm described it as a "neural network accelerator". Each chip is capable of 36 trillion operations per second, and there are two chips for redundancy. Tesla claims HW3 has 2.5× improved performance over HW2.5 with 1.25× higher power and 0.8× lower cost. HW3 features twelve ARM Cortex-A72 CPUs operating at 2.6 GHz, two Neural Network Accelerators operating at 2 GHz and a Mali GPU operating at 1 GHz."

EAP = PS3
FSD = PS4

(I didn't say PS5 because it's backwards compatible with PS4)

 

[Twiglett]

In my view the 'intelligence' aspect of the Model 3 is wildly overrated. When on TACC it brakes heavily for no good reason and even when off TACC - it bleeps and bongs relentlessly thinking it's about to crash into things, and performed an emergency stop with no good reason (car in front turning right across oncoming traffic, my car was decelerating thru regen) - if there's a setting to disable this type of interference I'd like to know. The parking sensors don't even pick up a 6" high sleeper.

With this in mind, the little interest I previously had in FSD has now completely evaporated; notwithstanding the actual driving experience should remain something to be savoured and enjoyed rather than sitting there, anxiously worrying about whether you're about to become one with the dashboard because the car spotted an errant mouse on the road.

If you have TACC off and its alerting, then that is how you have the other features set, its doing what you asked it to do. If that isn't right for you, try changing the options and reduce the sensitivity.
All of that behavior is configurable, its in the manual.

 

[gangzoom]

What are people's thoughts on the above? Will the re-write be used for the basis of the 'lesser' variants

I woudlnt hold your breath on the rewrite doing anything. Elon is clearly timed his Twitter posts a few weeks ago to align with this EAP 'offer' and Q3 results.

No one has yet to see what difference the rewrite will actually bring, yet at the same time Tesla is still bringing out software changes to the current AP code.

If this rewrite is suppose to be so good, why aren't all of Tesla's AP team working on it flat out, any code they write now for AP needs to be rewritten again, it makes little sense......

I have FSD, but don't be fooled by Elons latest marketing push. The whole AP rewrite 'news' right now looks nothing more than a cash grab from existing owner.

 

[gangzoom]

Incase people have forgotten, this was Elons promise from 2015, that's 5 years ago.....Anyone who believes his latest hot air on software rewrite needs to take a look at his track record on not delivering AP/FSD.

 

[goRt]

I'm a high end software architect/manager. Of course they will fork.

"HW3 includes a custom Tesla-designed system on a chip. Tesla claimed that the new system would process 2,300 frames per second (fps), which is a 21x improvement in image processing compared to HW2.5, which is capable of 110 fps. The firm described it as a "neural network accelerator". Each chip is capable of 36 trillion operations per second, and there are two chips for redundancy. Tesla claims HW3 has 2.5× improved performance over HW2.5 with 1.25× higher power and 0.8× lower cost. HW3 features twelve ARM Cortex-A72 CPUs operating at 2.6 GHz, two Neural Network Accelerators operating at 2 GHz and a Mali GPU operating at 1 GHz."

EAP = PS3
FSD = PS4

(I didn't say PS5 because it's backwards compatible with PS4)

But Tesla is deploying HW3- on all cars that pass through it for whatever reason ergo it will EOL HW2.x and only develop on HW3x going forward.
My bet is it doesn't want to try and fix wipers and headlights (both beta) on the slow architectures.

 

[Tam]

...thoughts?

The new rewrites are only good for newer computer HW3 but I don't think Tesla would rewrite for the older computer HW2 and HW2.5.

I understood that FSD needs at least an HW3 while HW2 and 2.5 are good enough for Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot because those don't have to deal with the complexity of automatic city driving.

So, that means if your car is new and already has HW3, I think you'll get the new rewrite for everything whether you have FSD or not.

 

[drtimhill]

I'm a high end software architect/manager. Of course they will fork.

EAP = PS3
FSD = PS4

(I didn't say PS5 because it's backwards compatible with PS4)

Well certainly they will have to fork, but the OP question isnt quite that. He's asking what will happen to AP after the fork? Once V11 arrives, we have three basic variants:

1. Cars on HW2, which cannot run the V11 "FSD core", since it requires HW3.
2. Cars on HW3 which have not purchased FSD (though might have AP/EAP), and presumably will be running V11?
3. Cars on HW3 who have purchased HW3, and will be running V11.

I'm not sure where #1 cars are at that point. Do they still run V10, and gradually drift apart feature-wise as V11 is enhanced? Or do they run a subset of V11 with the old V10 AI core, and retain some level of feature parity?

And what about #2 cars, V11 is (supposedly) going to be a big jump ahead for self-driving in general. Do the non-FSD cars get all the advantages of the new core? V11 is more than just FSD city-street features, it's a major jump in all the AP capabilities (so we have been told). But Tesla have said for some time now that AP/EAP is "feature complete" which might imply that any and all new AP features/enhancements in V11 will be aimed at FSD owners only.

I suspect we are going to get another tier added between EAP and FSD: AP/EAP will stay frozen at the current feature level, and there will be some sort of "AP+" tier that is not the full FSD (city streets etc), but adds more advanced AP/NOA features that are not in V10, for more $$.