Will the Mod3 PXXD be quicker than the S?

[Snowdog]

OK. Just speculation on my part. Even if the 3 could be quicker than the S, I submit to you that Tesla will software limit so that it's slower. That way they won't cannibalize sales of the higher end product to the lower end product, lower profits, etc.

That really doesn't make sense. The TM3 won't be built using the motors/controllers out of the TMS.

Those will purpose built for TM3, with the goal of making them as cheap as they can possibly get away with. Which will based on just meeting the performance target. Not exceeding it (making them more expensive) and then scaling them back with software.

This is all about upping the scale of mass production, and slashing retail price, so dollars will have to be cut everywhere imaginable to make TM3 profitable for Tesla.

 

[Uncle Paul]

My prediction is that by the time the Model 3 comes out, both the Model 3 and Model S will have higher performance models that available today. Good times for everybody.

 

[ELRev]

I had not heard where it was "mostly" steel.

In one of the early test ride videos from the reveal event, someone asked pointed questions on the steel/aluminum subject, and I'm pretty sure the driver confirmed that it would be more steel than aluminum. Let me see if I can find the video.

EDIT: Found it:

Question starts at 3:03. Answer at 3:25.

 

[ucmndd]

No it's not. The M3 is mostly steel and the MS is aluminum. I suspect, at best, the M3 will weigh the same.

Model S is at least 4,600 pounds. That would be a massive curb weight for a car the size of the 3.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

In one of the early test ride videos from the reveal event, someone asked pointed questions on the steel/aluminum subject, and I'm pretty sure the driver confirmed that it would be more steel than aluminum. Let me see if I can find the video.

EDIT: Found it:

Question starts at 3:03. Answer at 3:25.

Yeah, I'd seen that one before. He said it was a greater proportion of steel...but that doesn't tell us how much. Could be 60/40, for instance. I'm simply saying that more steel being present in the vehicle doesn't give us an idea how that affects weight compared to the Model S.

 

[ELRev]

Yeah, I'd seen that one before. He said it was a greater proportion of steel...but that doesn't tell us how much. Could be 60/40, for instance. I'm simply saying that more steel being present in the vehicle doesn't give us an idea how that affects weight compared to the Model S.

That's true. That's a totally different conversation. "Mostly," to me, just meant 51+%. Seemed like you might have been unaware that will almost certainly be the case.

I think this conversation has more to do with the capabilities of the Model S than it does with the technical and volumetric specs of the Model 3. I expect that the PXXD Model 3 will be faster than the base Model S but slower than the PXXD Model S, whether the specs force it to be or not. The sport/P models will be competing against each other more so than they will against their non-P counterparts. Considering the benefits of the "P" models are strictly performance-based, I think most people will stop short of those additional upgrades. For those who need (a.k.a. really want) the performance upgrades, there will need to be some significant difference between the PXXD 3 and S in specifically that area in order to justify a $60k+ price difference to the audience willing to pay for "Ludicrous Mode" or another other - and I mean this respectfully - unnecessary performance upgrades.

 

[NoEggs]

Just eyeballing the cut-away images from the Mod3 reveal event, it looks like they're using the smaller front motor out of the Model S (indeed, as Elon had mentioned multiple times prior). So just throwing some numbers around in my head, if this smaller motor is the next iteration of the Model S's front drive unit, do you think that the Mod3 PXXD would be able to approach the S P90D's performance? On the Mod3 platform that'd be somewhere around 480hp combined, assuming equivalent power output as the front S motor. I'm was hoping for low-mid 11's right out the box, but given the known specs of the front S motor and extrapolating them out to the Mod3 platform, I'm having some doubts.

Would be extremely shocked if the M3 could match the MS 0-60, but the honest answer is "Nobody Knows."

 

[Snowdog]

Model S is at least 4,600 pounds. That would be a massive curb weight for a car the size of the 3.

The weight issue is just noise.

If the car is that much lighter, they will just make the motors/Controllers that much cheaper and less powerful.

Job #1 is making TM3 profitable at half the price of the TMS. Everything will have to be cut to achieve that.

 

[ucmndd]

The weight issue is just noise.

If the car is that much lighter, they will just make the motors/Controllers that much cheaper and less powerful.

Job #1 is making TM3 profitable at half the price of the TMS. Everything will have to be cut to achieve that.

While I agree, that doesn't make the prospect of a 4600 pound Model 3 any more likely, as was suggested in the original post I quoted.

 

[doublejj]

But I want to order mine "Animal Style"

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I think this conversation has more to do with the capabilities of the Model S than it does with the technical and volumetric specs of the Model 3. I expect that the PXXD Model 3 will be faster than the base Model S but slower than the PXXD Model S, whether the specs force it to be or not. The sport/P models will be competing against each other more so than they will against their non-P counterparts. Considering the benefits of the "P" models are strictly performance-based, I think most people will stop short of those additional upgrades. For those who need (a.k.a. really want) the performance upgrades, there will need to be some significant difference between the PXXD 3 and S in specifically that area in order to justify a $60k+ price difference to the audience willing to pay for "Ludicrous Mode" or another other - and I mean this respectfully - unnecessary performance upgrades.

Yes, but since the Model 3 is supposed to be targeting BMW...the M3 is faster than the M5, but costs less....considerably so.

 

[Ssssly]

Is an M5 faster than a BMW M3? Yep. Gotta agree with S'toon.

According to BMW, the M3 is .2 sec faster to 60mph than the M5 (3.9 vs 4.1).

That noted, as long as the PM3D is faster than the competition in its class, it should be a great product that I will be proud to own.

 

[Gilzo]

OK. Just speculation on my part. Even if the 3 could be quicker than the S, I submit to you that Tesla will software limit so that it's slower. That way they won't cannibalize sales of the higher end product to the lower end product, lower profits, etc.

^ what he said. Agree

 

[Thalass]

How soon till some tuner stuffs MS motors & batteries into a M3?.....

About a month after the warranty expires.

 

[Twiglett]

My guess is that will make sure it beats BMW/Audi etc for the current model year.
Of course that means that if BMW release a more powerful version, Tesla will likely just issue a software update to boost performance again.
I don't expect the performance model 3 to beat a P90D though
Like for like, I'd expect model S to be quicker. After all, they do not compete with each other, only ICE cars

 

[EXOTIC1]

3.9 secs still gets it faster than 99% of ICE cars.

I'd be more concerned with 1/4 mile and 45-70 speed
I 'm hoping the Model 3 will run at least hi 12's

BMW Mercedes Audi P Panamera Caddy
all have 4sec cars as do some other american sedans
Even the "junky" 2016 Mercedes CLA45 will run 4 sec 0-60 for an msrp of 50-58k

 

[Garlan Garner]

I was told that the "P" in the version of the car stands for performance. I was also told that the only difference between the P85D and the 85D is programing. The "P" version has the same batteries and motors is what I'm told.

I believe that since the M3 has what appears to be an identical wheelbase as the MS, then it could possibly contain the same batteries. That would make a lot of sense from a production standpoint. It would even make more sense if the M3 had the same motors as the M6.

I believe that the Ludacris mode of the M6 is a programing option that simply allows a much higher current draw from the batteries.

I wonder what the 0-60 time would be if there was no current limit from the batteries to the motors on the M6. Would the motors just rip themselves off the axles? Would the M6 then violate some kind of motor vehicle torque regulation rule?

 

[shokunin]

The Performance models have the same front motor as the non-Performance, but a much bigger and different rear motor. The M3 is smaller, it will not have the same wheelbase nor the same battery as the Model S. It'll be a completely different platform.

Not sure what a M6 is?

 

[Garlan Garner]

The Performance models have the same front motor as the non-Performance, but a much bigger and different rear motor. The M3 is smaller, it will not have the same wheelbase nor the same battery as the Model S. It'll be a completely different platform.

Not sure what a M6 is?

Sorry I meant MS.

 

[shokunin]

The batteries are spec'd / rated to deliver a certain amount of amperage safely, not sure what the exact C rating is of the Tesla batteries. The batteries can only deliver so much current safely without damaging themselves, overheating, and blowing the fuses.

Ludicrous mode is both hardware (new inconel 1500A fuse) and software. If you have too much torque, you'd just spin the tires.