Winter Driving Experiences

[Doug_G]

Oh... missed that... in that case you kinda asked in the wrong thread. The answer isn't winter-related. It's "vampire load". Huge thread on the topic - Power drain while idle (Vampire Load)

Firmware 4.2 leaves the touchscreen and console computers running all the time, because they had problems with sleep mode.

 

[Al Sherman]

Oh... missed that... in that case you kinda asked in the wrong thread. The answer isn't winter-related. It's "vampire load". Huge thread on the topic - Power drain while idle (Vampire Load)

Firmware 4.2 leaves the touchscreen and console computers running all the time, because they had problems with sleep mode.

Darn! I knew that answer many posts ago just from reading a lot on TMC. But, I told myself to shut up because I don't even have the car yet. I think I'm ready to pass the MS knowledge test.:smile:

 

[William13]

The car is properly designed to allow the batteries to cool and let the range drop a bit. This is more energy conscience than heating your garage or the outside world with electric resistance heat. The problem is lack of a charge timing app and variation of the regeneration when the battery is cold. Remember that the battery heats itself as it discharges. Thus more efficient to not keep the pack at optimum temperature.
My vote is that the regen electricity go to the resistance elements in the defrost/heater whether needed or not.

 

[znino]

Oh... missed that... in that case you kinda asked in the wrong thread. The answer isn't winter-related. It's "vampire load". Huge thread on the topic - Power drain while idle (Vampire Load)

Firmware 4.2 leaves the touchscreen and console computers running all the time, because they had problems with sleep mode.

ok thanks. I will head over to the other thread and look around but I still think it's crazy that a rechargeable battery that is plugged in should ever be at less than 100% when it is unplugged after charging all night.

- - - Updated - - -

The car is properly designed to allow the batteries to cool and let the range drop a bit. This is more energy conscience than heating your garage or the outside world with electric resistance heat. The problem is lack of a charge timing app and variation of the regeneration when the battery is cold. Remember that the battery heats itself as it discharges. Thus more efficient to not keep the pack at optimum temperature.
My vote is that the regen electricity go to the resistance elements in the defrost/heater whether needed or not.

I disagree. I do not see why I would have a battery that is less than 100% when i leave my house in the morning. If it is more efficient to heat the battery before leaving then the system should use the mains power to keep it at optimal temperature. So if I do not use my car for 3 days then I should accept to leave with 100km less range? I do not get it but will head over to the Vampire thread to discuss. I understand systems using up battery in the background and drainage but I dont understand why this cannot be compensated and topped up automatically. The Roadster, by the way, starts fans and cooling-heating all the time on its own and the battery somehow manages to be topped off all the time.

 

[jhs_7645]

I don't have my S yet, but this is something I've puzzled over too. I get that we will soon be able to schedule charging, and we can now use the app to warm/cool the interior, but it seems odd that range trickles away while the car is still plugged in. Scheduling charging is fine, but I think there will be times when I suddenly just want the car, and would expect it to be at full (standard) charge when I'm ready to go.

I think you have very high, bordering on unrealistic expectations. To me, continuously cycling the charge on/off to keep it at 'full' seems inefficient and in some cases undesirable.

Tesla has several things in their (as of yet unimplemented) toolbag to solve this one: 1) Sleep mode. This way, the drain on the battery when charged but not in use is minimized. 2) (you mentioned) scheduled charging, this way, the car is topped off and ready to go when you need it. This will work for most cases, but not all. 3) the remote app, where you can simply tell it to top off before you leave.

If you have to leave in a moment's notice, and you did not plan, and the trip you now suddenly have to take is 100% dependent on the 3-6 miles in range you might have lost, then I've got nothing for you, other than drive a little slower for part of it. You'll get your miles back that way.

 

[mnx]

I agree with everything you said. If the car is topping up once every 24 hours while plugged in, that is totally fine.

I think you have very high, bordering on unrealistic expectations. To me, continuously cycling the charge on/off to keep it at 'full' seems inefficient and in some cases undesirable.

Tesla has several things in their (as of yet unimplemented) toolbag to solve this one: 1) Sleep mode. This way, the drain on the battery when charged but not in use is minimized. 2) (you mentioned) scheduled charging, this way, the car is topped off and ready to go when you need it. This will work for most cases, but not all. 3) the remote app, where you can simply tell it to top off before you leave.

If you have to leave in a moment's notice, and you did not plan, and the trip you now suddenly have to take is 100% dependent on the 3-6 miles in range you might have lost, then I've got nothing for you, other than drive a little slower for part of it. You'll get your miles back that way.

 

[mknox]

I think you have very high, bordering on unrealistic expectations. To me, continuously cycling the charge on/off to keep it at 'full' seems inefficient and in some cases undesirable.

Except that other EVs seem to be able to do this easily. My company's Volt does so, and Roadster owners have reported that their cars stay topped off too. Perhaps a user option is in order. I would be willing to sacrifice a bit of $$ to the utility to keep the pack at least partially warmed and to stay topped off whenever plugged in to shore power.

 

[jhs_7645]

Except that other EVs seem to be able to do this easily. My company's Volt does so, and Roadster owners have reported that their cars stay topped off too. Perhaps a user option is in order. I would be willing to sacrifice a bit of $$ to the utility to keep the pack at least partially warmed and to stay topped off whenever plugged in to shore power.

The volt tops off at 65% capacity. I trust that Tesla is doing the right thing for the long term health of the battery. Other cars have different batteries and technologies, so you cannot compare them.

 

[Doug_G]

Except that other EVs seem to be able to do this easily. My company's Volt does so, and Roadster owners have reported that their cars stay topped off too. Perhaps a user option is in order. I would be willing to sacrifice a bit of $$ to the utility to keep the pack at least partially warmed and to stay topped off whenever plugged in to shore power.

The Roadster tops off daily. I suspect the top-off feature is yet another thing missing along with the charge timer and pack pre-heat (latter is already solved by the App), which will all be released in a blaze of glory with a big firmware update in a month or two.

 

[cinergi]

So we're theoretically getting 2.5 feet of snow Friday/Saturday. Time to break out my camera and test the Model S to the max! :smile:

 

[Zythryn]

The Roadster tops off daily. I suspect the top-off feature is yet another thing missing along with the charge timer and pack pre-heat (latter is already solved by the App), which will all be released in a blaze of glory with a big firmware update in a month or two.

Agreed, the Roadster topped off daily.
In addition the Model S has also topped off once a day.

The timer will be incredibly helpful as well, but I just wanted to second Doug's comment that the Roadster topped off daily, not continuously.

 

[mknox]

The volt tops off at 65% capacity. I trust that Tesla is doing the right thing for the long term health of the battery. Other cars have different batteries and technologies, so you cannot compare them.

I think the Volt is programmed to only use the "middle" of the battery's capacity. What I know is that whenever I unplugged it, the battery monitor and range were always at 100% on the dash. Likely, It charges up to 65% and that is what the Volt consider's "100%".

I agree you cannot compare different batteries and technologies. I was attempting to compare the user's experience and expectations.

 

[Zas]

Well today was *THE DAY* to truly test the car in extreme Winter driving conditions...as we got 20cm+ of snow, high winds, lots of ice, and many unploughed streets...worst storm in Toronto in 5 years... Below are my thoughts.

1. Tires : For this extreme weather, the Pirellis are not enough..I got stuck 3 times today on my way home from work - all on unploughed streets, but keep in mind A LOT of other cars also got stuck, it wasn't that my car was the only one stuck...I had shovel myself out each time...But on a normal snow covered street, the car performed just fine..it's just the streets that are completely untouched by plows, and are 10-15cm high that the car gets inevitably stuck in...as do the other cars..but this is the first real FAIL for me with my Model S , as I thought it was "invincible"

2. Wipers : The wipers need to be changed...horrible experience in this weather..the lack of heating on the windshield due to the airflow issues as mentioned in previous threads leads to ice build up on the wipers and leads to streaking and a lot of frustration when you are already stressed driving in these conditions.

3. Defroster : this has been an ongoing issue that has discussed in length...it just adds to the level of frustration when driving in this weather.

Also, When I was stuck the 2nd time, I was getting frustrated and my wife had called tesla roadside assistance whom informed us we would get a call from tow truck company, a few minutes later we got a call from a Florida number , i think it Auto club roadside assistance ? ..and they said they would charge $135 for a wench...but i thought roadside assistance was covered by Tesla ? or am i misinformed ?

in "normal" winter weather, the car is absolutely fine..I have been driving it without issues since December...but today was the day it showed its vulnerabilities ...obviously next time we have a storm like this I won't be taking it out...but hopefully that will be in another 5 years.

*forgot to mention that the door handles broke through the ice nicely..there was quite a build up of ice..and I was impressed with how they broke through.

 

[Jeeps17]

Zas,

Your experience mirrors that of the sig owners who braved the december 27th blizzard in Montreal and Quebec, i.e. not pleasant.

I have already crossed the Pirelli's from my list of winter tires, and will probably buy non-studded Hakka R's (we get storms like yours regularly over here). For Toronto, as you noted, you should be fine except for the odd severe storm every few years.

Let's hope the retrofits Tesla has in the works will alleviate the windshield ventilation and heating issues that you described.

Out of curiosity, did you try using the higher settings of the air suspension to get out of trouble?

 

[Zas]

Out of curiosity, did you try using the higher settings of the air suspension to get out of trouble?

yes, indeed !... But it didn't help...I found that staying on previously worn tracks in thick unplowed snow helped..but that's hard to do when your wipers and defroster seem to be working against your vision..

since my last post, 2 more cars were stuck on my street, a minivan, and a Purolater delivery truck which had to be towed...so this is indeed a very rare storm...or at least I hope it will be rare...if they cleaned the streets, this would all be a non issue, but here they won't clean the small side streets and cul de sacs untill AFTER the storm is over..

 

[znino]

I missed the December 27 Montreal storm so today was my first real outing in Winter Snowfall storm conditions.

Overall the car performed very well for me. It was mostly hard packed snow on somewhat cleared streets and highway but definitely very slippery. Some of the side streets had higher accumulations of fresh snow. When driving below 50 on the smaller streets I put myself in High suspension mode. I found the car was generally stable all day. A few areas where the Traction control would come on but it gets back into place real quick. The Pirellis seem fine to me frankly. In deep snow, there are not many rear drive cars that can just push out with total control and getting stuck is possible with any tires. I would not be too critical of getting stuck occasionally on heavily snowed streets or snow banks coming out of parking lots etc. It happens. Take any BMW with rear wheel drive, stick them in a snow bank and they are not going anywhere. The only thing (don't know if anyone else has noticed this) is that I find the Pirellis make a lot of grinding noise against the fresh snow when you slow down. They really make that typical sound similar to when you walk on fresh packed snow with big boots. It might just be that they are quite wide and the contact surface is big coupled with the fact that the car is so silent. Would be interested to know if others have noticed this. Open the window a crack and it should be obvious.

I echo the issues with the wipers in this weather. They freeze up quickly and also, the left side of my windshield, being improperly heated causes spreading of ice and the big vertical band of ice on that part of the windshield means that the wipers smear over a cold icy section non stop and this doesn't help. Has anyone replaced the wipers with some winter types that are less rigid at low temperatures? Can you specify brand, type and where purchased?

The pre-heating of the car from the app was a blessing I have to say. The rear window, roof and windshield were all wet and ready to go.

No freezing issues on handles.

 

[PatP]

Well today was *THE DAY* to truly test the car in extreme Winter driving conditions...as we got 20cm+ of snow, high winds, lots of ice, and many unploughed streets...worst storm in Toronto in 5 years... Below are my thoughts.

1. Tires : For this extreme weather, the Pirellis are not enough..I got stuck 3 times today on my way home from work - all on unploughed streets, but keep in mind A LOT of other cars also got stuck, it wasn't that my car was the only one stuck...I had shovel myself out each time...But on a normal snow covered street, the car performed just fine..it's just the streets that are completely untouched by plows, and are 10-15cm high that the car gets inevitably stuck in...as do the other cars..but this is the first real FAIL for me with my Model S , as I thought it was "invincible"

2. Wipers : The wipers need to be changed...horrible experience in this weather..the lack of heating on the windshield due to the airflow issues as mentioned in previous threads leads to ice build up on the wipers and leads to streaking and a lot of frustration when you are already stressed driving in these conditions.

3. Defroster : this has been an ongoing issue that has discussed in length...it just adds to the level of frustration when driving in this weather.

Also, When I was stuck the 2nd time, I was getting frustrated and my wife had called tesla roadside assistance whom informed us we would get a call from tow truck company, a few minutes later we got a call from a Florida number , i think it Auto club roadside assistance ? ..and they said they would charge $135 for a wench...but i thought roadside assistance was covered by Tesla ? or am i misinformed ?

in "normal" winter weather, the car is absolutely fine..I have been driving it without issues since December...but today was the day it showed its vulnerabilities ...obviously next time we have a storm like this I won't be taking it out...but hopefully that will be in another 5 years.

*forgot to mention that the door handles broke through the ice nicely..there was quite a build up of ice..and I was impressed with how they broke through.

Zas, what you experienced today is what I experienced at least 4-5 times since I took delivery. Here in Quebec, we've been without snow for sometimes and car has been amazing. However, yesterday and today were snowy and the car was just below average. I took my BMW xDrive this afternoon just to remember why I said I would never buy a non-AWD car in the future. I don't want to be negative, but Model S is not good in these conditions (like many other cars. ex. BMW 535i).

I have to add that our Chevy Volt is amazingly good in snowstorms and winter conditions.

 

[William13]

Again, I would fault Pirelli as these are winter PERFOrMANCE tires

 

[PatP]

Again, I would fault Pirelli as these are winter PERFOrMANCE tires

Yes, but Tesla should stop selling these in places where winter is harsh. Right now, if you don't read the forums, that's what you buy...

 

[William13]

I agree Patp.