Winter - excessive battery range reduction...

[BigNick]

Charged to 95% a couple of days ago, drove 192 miles, was down to 5% (on an 85), so 90% of battery used in 192 miles versus the 239 or so I should have been able to go on 90% use, so that's about a 20% loss. Mixed driving - some highway speed and some around-town ~ 40 MPH driving.

Temperatures were between 15 and 25 (F).

I run the cabin heat on recirculate most of the time. It helps a lot re-warming already-warmed air instead of sucking in sub-freezing air and trying to heat it. I do have to fiddle with the controls a lot more to cut down on fogging.

 

[jerry33]

FWIW, when I went up to Thunder Bay last winter, I never had a cold foot problem. Now I did wear wool socks, but that's what I always wear because they keep the moisture level down, so I didn't do anything special.

 

[JayyyDeee]

My drive to work is 47km and I started the day with 354 km as my 90%(my 90% has dropped from 360 in the first month on ownership) when I had actually gotten to work I had 293. So I lost 14km or so due to cold weather. This was around 2 degrees Celsius with heavy rain

 

[BestRadar]

You g

Last night was a balmy () -18c here in Toronto and the family and I had to travel 110km return trip for a holiday dinner. 98% was highway driving at 100-110km/hr and 2 heated seats, cabin heat on. Drove in chill mode so no hard or aggressive movements. Winter tires on.

Scenario:

Preheated the cabin (and presumably the battery) for 30 min while plugged in.
Left the home with 485km range.
Drove 110km distance
Returned with 234km range.

Quite literally the battery range reduced a whopping 251km on a 110km drive. At that reduction, the remaining 234km of estimated range would give us abt 100km further actual distance.

Total actual range would have been no more than 210km off a 485km range.?!

That’s a ridiculous 57% reduction in battery range on account of cold weather even with the battery pre heated one way.

Anyone else ever experience this kind of range reduction? We drive a P100D so not sure if that matters given one of the motors cuts anyway at continuous highway speeds to incr range. I understand the affects of cold temperatures on lithium batteries but I can’t even imagine what would have happened I had a 75D modelX in this scenario. I believe this is excessive reduction. Anyone else?

I get exactly 50% range when it's cold with the heat on. (Wish this was told to me before buying). Had 126 miles and had to drop my son off at party 29 miles away. Got back with 3 miles left. Got nervous and cut the heat the last few miles to make sure I would get back.

 

[TexasEV]

Try reducing the heat the whole time and using the seat heaters.

 

[Dax279]

I parked my car outside for about five hours last night at minus 28C. Lost about 2 kms of range over that time. My Wh/km was about 350 on my drive home.

 

[Destiny1701]

You g

I get exactly 50% range when it's cold with the heat on. (Wish this was told to me before buying). Had 126 miles and had to drop my son off at party 29 miles away. Got back with 3 miles left. Got nervous and cut the heat the last few miles to make sure I would get back.

I feel your pain...non disclosure for northern climates. If an ICE car company ever had a 50% mileage reduction in winter...they’d be bankrupt! Lol.

 

[jerry33]

I feel your pain...non disclosure for northern climates. If an ICE car company ever had a 50% mileage reduction in winter...they’d be bankrupt! Lol.

50% is unusual for an S85, it's more like 20-25% unless you are also driving through snow. 25% is common for ICE cars too, but it can be far more. However, the driver generally doesn't notice because most ICE cars don't tell you.

 

[JayyyDeee]

I parked my car outside for about five hours last night at minus 28C. Lost about 2 kms of range over that time. My Wh/km was about 350 on my drive home.

I think there is something wrong with your numbers you can expect 2km range lost based only it running standby. At minus 28c you probably lost around 15 to 20 times that if not more. At between 0 to 3 degrees Celsius my Model s loses about 15km over 8 hours

 

[mspohr]

Last night was a balmy () -18c here in Toronto and the family and I had to travel 110km return trip for a holiday dinner. 98% was highway driving at 100-110km/hr and 2 heated seats, cabin heat on. Drove in chill mode so no hard or aggressive movements. Winter tires on.

Scenario:

Preheated the cabin (and presumably the battery) for 30 min while plugged in.
Left the home with 485km range.
Drove 110km distance
Returned with 234km range.

Quite literally the battery range reduced a whopping 251km on a 110km drive. At that reduction, the remaining 234km of estimated range would give us abt 100km further actual distance.

Total actual range would have been no more than 210km off a 485km range.?!

That’s a ridiculous 57% reduction in battery range on account of cold weather even with the battery pre heated one way.

Anyone else ever experience this kind of range reduction? We drive a P100D so not sure if that matters given one of the motors cuts anyway at continuous highway speeds to incr range. I understand the affects of cold temperatures on lithium batteries but I can’t even imagine what would have happened I had a 75D modelX in this scenario. I believe this is excessive reduction. Anyone else?

What was your energy consumption Wh/km for the trip?
Cabin heater takes a lot of energy.

 

[AWDtsla]

50% is unusual for an S85, it's more like 20-25% unless you are also driving through snow. 25% is common for ICE cars too, but it can be far more. However, the driver generally doesn't notice because most ICE cars don't tell you.

Maybe in ICE car from 1980, but anything build in this century has range and/or consumption indicators. I've never observed anything close to 25%. Now you can argue about why this is.

 

[Dax279]

I think there is something wrong with your numbers you can expect 2km range lost based only it running standby. At minus 28c you probably lost around 15 to 20 times that if not more. At between 0 to 3 degrees Celsius my Model s loses about 15km over 8 hours

Numbers are not wrong. I parked the car at minus 25 with 339 km of range. Prior to turning on my cabin heat before walking over to the car the range was down to 337 and minus 28. Likely warmed the car for 30 mins before driving my 10kms or so home. When I got home my range was 305. I believe it was 323 by the time I started my drive home.

My phantom losses at the temp you describe are never anywhere near that and I have left my car at the airport for multiple days at a time with minimal losses and colder over night temps (I don’t keep my car in always connected mode and rarely check up on it).

 

[AWDtsla]

I parked my car outside for about five hours last night at minus 28C. Lost about 2 kms of range over that time. My Wh/km was about 350 on my drive home.

You don't lose energy from cold, you lose energy from heating.

 

[Dax279]

You don't lose energy from cold, you lose energy from heating.

I don’t think I mentioned anything about losing energy from cold in my post? Just posted what happened to my car in these temps from letting it sit outside for an extended period of time.

 

[mknox]

I get exactly 50% range when it's cold with the heat on.

50% is unusual for an S85, it's more like 20-25% unless you are also driving through snow.

I've never observed anything close to 25%. Now you can argue about why this is.

In my 5 years of experience, I have found that driving patterns, especially distance, can make a HUGE difference in winter consumption and relatively little difference in the summer.

In my post above, I recounted how when I make the long drive between Chicago and Toronto, I will see about 16% higher consumption than Rated /Summer when temps are around the freezing mark, and on my extreme cold trip (range of -20 F to 0 F) I was seeing 36% higher.

However, when I make my daily trips around town from home in the extreme cold we're having, I can see anywhere from 180% to 300% higher than Rated. (This isn't a problem for me because the trips are short and close to home, so using 50 or 75% of my battery a day vs. 20% is of no consequence when I can get home and charge nightly anyway).

On very long trips, the initial high energy draw to warm the battery and the cabin up get smoothed out by many miles of relatively "good" consumption with a fully warmed up car. On short trips, you spend all that energy to warm up (or just start to warm up) the car, then park and it all goes to waste as the car cools down again before your next trip.

I think the debate over what we're all seeing here can be explained by this.

 

[SMSMD]

However, when I make my daily trips around town from home in the extreme cold we're having, I can see anywhere from 180% to 300% higher than Rated. (This isn't a problem for me because the trips are short and close to home, so using 50 or 75% of my battery a day vs. 20% is of no consequence when I can get home and charge nightly anyway).
On short trips, you spend all that energy to warm up (or just start to warm up) the car, then park and it all goes to waste as the car cools down again before your next trip.I think the debate over what we're all seeing here can be explained by this.

Noted the same. 1428 wh/km!!&& -29°C

 

[Skipdd]

Another data point
Had to take a trip north today. Decided to track the relevant statistics:

S100 D, November 2017 build running 48.a774xxx
Started at 90% SOC - 300 miles
Pre-heated in garage with car plugged in for 1 hour
Outside Temp ranged from 18-22 F
Cabin heat set at 72, also had heated seats at 3 for all seats (front and back) and steering wheel heat on
61.9 miles driven
80 mi rated range used
346 KW/mi average use
70% interstate highway, 30% mix of local and state roads. Used AP 50% of the time
Highway speed ranged from 65-75 mph

Was expecting energy use in the 400+ range

 

[PA70D]

Live in PA where our temperatures are relatively moderate, but do travel north a few times every winter. Just returned from New Hampshire last evening and experienced driving in temperatures as low as -15 Fahrenheit over the past week. Range is reduced as it would be with any car if only because of the increased aerodynamic drag of the cold air and in my case winter tires, which have a higher rolling resistance therefore reduced range. My previous gasoline cars recorded the loss of about 2miles per gallon on winter tires.



Agree with others who earlier stated around town driving range is greatly reduced and have experienced similar range impact. No suggestions here.



Believe I can contribute is a few pointers with cold weather driving that help with range.



First preheat the car prior to driving, do this when plugged in at a charger. If you are starting out with a totally cold car (cabin & battery) your range will be greatly reduced. Once running do not believe heating is a major influence. Have read on other threads on this site that the resistance heating takes up to 6KW to heat a cold cabin. When running a warm car this is reduced to 1 – 2KW. Starting out with a warm cabin and battery gives you the best range possible.



The heating system in the car is not great. Have found changing from automatic to a custom setting helps significantly. My custom setting involves directing the air through the floor registers. And turn the fan to something above 5 (this is the lowest setting that keeps my feet warm). Socks or not can typically reach a setting that is comfortable.

 

[Evbwcaer]

I just had the least efficient trip ever with my S. For a drive to my parent’s cabin, that is about 160 miles, I sometimes arrive home with 100 miles left in my S85.

On Friday afternoon/night, driving some in traffic and some at 70mph, and with two bikes on a hitch mounted rack, I averaged about 550 wh/Mile. The temps were in the -5f range. I made two, brief Supercharger stops.

Thoughts:
-The bikes must have had a huge impact because other trips in cold alone give numbers more like 400wh/Mile. A trip at -23f today, with no bikes, was about 450wh/Mile. I’ve never had the bikes on there before.

-Even in rare, unique, conditions, a Supercharged route is fine and doable.

-The S’s remote heating, quick heating, super powered seat heaters, camper mode, and no cold “starting” issues make the S very much preferable to an ICE car in winter.
The reduced range is only relevant on long trips and is very manageable as long as the route is supercharged.

 

[Big Earl]

I drove from DC to New Hampshire today in an S 100D. I charged fully last night and pre-heated for an hour this morning with outside temps at 18F. The battery heater ran for about 40 minutes before reaching its setpoint and shutting off. The cabin was up to temperature in about 10 minutes.

Between DC and New York CIty, temps stayed between 13F and 19F. Consumption was about 380 Wh/mi with cruise set at 110% of the speed limit. North of NYC, temps dropped into the single digits and consumption jumped to between 400 and 420 Wh/mi, travelling at approximately the same speeds.

The trip was great and we had no issues with Supercharging. I plugged in on a 120 volt outlet at my friend’s houwse tonight with 75% SOC. It’s supposed to drop down to -5F tonight, which is no big deal.

By the way, the 100D’s Supercharging profile is fantastic. We got 115 kW up to about 60% state of charge at the Auburn, Mass Supercharger.

Strangely, we didn’t see a single other Tesla on the road during the entire 500 mile trip. We saw a total of four others at various Superchargers, but that was it.