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Winter handling Subaru vs dual-motor model Y

As I have posted on this thread before, my Model 3 has been rock solid in slippery and snowy winter conditions. I have experienced only occasional wiggles in the back end, which the traction control has corrected immediately. Maybe the narrower tires make a difference for the Model 3 as compared to the Model Y, although I would not think it would be that much of a difference. And certainly I have a good set of winter tires on. Anyway, I have been very pleased - the Model 3 has been even better on snow and ice than the Subaru that we owned.
I agree that my MY seems to just start to wiggle, and then quickly correct itself. It's that momentary wiggle that we almost never get with the Forester with the studded Hakkas. We didn't manage to find the right sized studded Hakka tires for the MY this year (thanks for nothing COVID), but I'll definitely look for them when we need a new set. Now that I've discovered studded tires, I don't think I'll ever go back.
 
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I agree that my MY seems to just start to wiggle, and then quickly correct itself. It's that momentary wiggle that we almost never get with the Forester with the studded Hakkas. We didn't manage to find the right sized studded Hakka tires for the MY this year (thanks for nothing COVID), but I'll definitely look for them when we need a new set. Now that I've discovered studded tires, I don't think I'll ever go back.
What we used to get with our Subaru (2009 Legacy Wagon) was more than just a wiggle, but the back end swinging out - that is, if you did not modulate the throttle properly in the turns on icy and snowy roads. Once you learned to do that, though - and it soon became second nature - the Subaru was a just great in bad winter weather. I imagine that new versions of Subaru may have solved that problem. Anyway, I don't mind the quick Tesla wiggle - the technology is doing its job and the car still tracks accurately. And even at that, I have had the wiggle only a few times, though admittedly I am not an aggressive driver.
 
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Snow Drift

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The Model Y with winter tires continues to impress. As said before, I've owned 6 Subarus (including 3 WRX and a STI) and I could make their rear slide out on turns if I wanted it to. The extra-rear wiggle from Tesla Model Y's RWD-biased Dual Motor is fine. Just drive the car understanding that the rear motor is primary. If you drive it like a full-time AWD or FWD car you will get bit.

If you are in deep snow, or in a situation where you don't want to deal with the rear-bias, go to Off-Road Mode, which defaults to 50:50 (front and rear motors on), and reduces throttle response.

She recently enjoyed 6" of snow with "Pirelli PZero Winter" high-performance 3-peak winter tires.

6B82D749-362B-4888-9D55-92A533CC8B64.jpeg
 
It probably disables Nannies like a VDC
or ESP off button, not roll prevention and safety systems.
Dunno. I haven't specifically tested what works or doesn't work. I just saw a notice on the screen saying "Traction control disabled"

From the manual:
"Off-Road Assist (on All-Wheel Drive vehicles): Enable Off-Road Assist to disable traction control and allow wheels to spin when driving off-road (see Traction Control)."

"Off-Road Assist is designed to provide overall improvements when driving off-road. In addition to allowing the wheels to spin, Off-Road Assist balances the torque between the front and rear motors to optimize traction. Off-Road Assist improves traction on rough and soft surfaces where one side of the vehicle may lose traction while the other side still has traction. When Off-Road Assist is on, the accelerator pedal provides more gradual torque, which is useful for crawling at low speeds"

It would be really nice if they had a setting to even out the power distribution and lower the torque without disabling traction control
 
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Snow Drift

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Dunno. I haven't specifically tested what works or doesn't work. I just saw a notice on the screen saying "Traction control disabled"

From the manual:


It would be really nice if they had a setting to even out the power distribution and lower the torque without disabling traction control
That’s not the safety features of traction control, that’s VDC off. It reduces wheel braking to allow for extra slip for added grip. It’s not making the car dangerous. Drive most cars and turn off VDC or ESP, etc.
 
That’s not the safety features of traction control, that’s VDC off. It reduces wheel braking to allow for extra slip for added grip. It’s not making the car dangerous. Drive most cars and turn off VDC or ESP, etc.
Except VDC/ESC is a safety feature and is designed to keep the car under control by selectively adding braking and reducing power when it detects slippage or steering problems - I fail to see how disabling this doesn't compromise safety. (also, "allow for extra slip for added grip?" say what?)
 

Snow Drift

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Except VDC/ESC is a safety feature and is designed to keep the car under control by selectively adding braking and reducing power when it detects slippage or steering problems - I fail to see how disabling this doesn't compromise safety. (also, "allow for extra slip for added grip?" say what?)
Those buttons exist in cars to allow for added grip in deep snow, mud or sand. Sometimes you need the tires to spin more in order to grip. VDC/ESC, etc will brake the wheels and reduce engine torque which gives you less power. That’s bad in deep snow etc. It’s also bad on track where the car pulls power bc you are being aggressive.
 
Those buttons exist in cars to allow for added grip in deep snow, mud or sand. Sometimes you need the tires to spin more in order to grip. VDC/ESC, etc will brake the wheels and reduce engine torque which gives you less power. That’s bad in deep snow etc. It’s also bad on track where the car pulls power bc you are being aggressive.
This is when you want slip because it gives you more power (go faster at the expense of control). I just want 50-50 power split with VDC etc. still engaged…
 

Snow Drift

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This is when you want slip because it gives you more power (go faster at the expense of control). I just want 50-50 power split with VDC etc. still engaged…
I hear you. A track-mode type of setting where you can control the f:r torque split would be incredible. I think you'd be fine in Off Road mode though, since it's just nannies, not ABS, not rollover control, etc.
 
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My guess as to why there isn't a user-accessible Snow Mode setting with a 50-50 split is that it is too power hungry (especially in cold weather). They don't want people to turn it on, drain the battery, and then get stranded or pissed because of the range hit. So they added that trigger (whether it's slip combined with temp/camera imagery or just slip with temp) to split power until the wheels seem to be getting enough traction, then slowly transferring power to the rear motor entirely.

Crazy speculation time: I believe they'd love to go 50:50 split more quickly and/or more often (or offer a Snow Mode toggle), but need the efficiencies of the 4680 batteries to make it feasible. Like I said, bananas crazy speculation.
 
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PNWLeccy

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My guess as to why there isn't a user-accessible Snow Mode setting with a 50-50 split is that it is too power hungry (especially in cold weather). They don't want people to turn it on, drain the battery, and then get stranded or pissed because of the range hit. So they added that trigger (whether it's slip combined with temp/camera imagery or just slip with temp) to split power until the wheels seem to be getting enough traction, then slowly transferring power to the rear motor entirely.

Crazy speculation time: I believe they'd love to go 50:50 split more quickly and/or more often (or offer a Snow Mode toggle), but need the efficiencies of the 4680 batteries to make it feasible. Like I said, bananas crazy speculation.
I actually agree with this theory. Especially, because of Elon's "Almost all input is error" stance, the vehicle will try to intelligently identify the conditions where a 50/50 split is needed and activate it automatically, rather than let us dumb users control it. I get where he's coming from but it's very arrogant when it doesn't work perfectly and a mechanism for manual override should always be available, in my opinion.
 
I have been recently playing with 'Off Road Assist' and there is a world of difference. I don't care about traction control being off. I feel a lot safer with the Off Road Assist, even though on the next drive you have to re-enable it. And on a side note - with the last update - 2021.44.30.7 - I noticed that my music no longer reduces it volume when you open a door or back lid.
 
I have been recently playing with 'Off Road Assist' and there is a world of difference. I don't care about traction control being off. I feel a lot safer with the Off Road Assist, even though on the next drive you have to re-enable it. And on a side note - with the last update - 2021.44.30.7 - I noticed that my music no longer reduces it volume when you open a door or back lid.
Yeah this is my experience as well. I've driven several hundred miles using this approach so far - during the winter snowstorm in Tahoe in December 2021. It has worked really well in really snowy conditions in steep mountain passes. In January 2021, I did the same in Silverthorne, CO and Park City, UT to drive to a variety of ski resorts in the snow (Winter Park, Steamboat Springs, Park City, Brighton in Cottonwood Canyon) and it has worked amazingly well in what I consider the litmus test of driving in snow - winding, steep mountain roads.

I pretty much use it every time I know there's lots of snow on the roads now - it still slips occasionally but I feel much safer with it on. Clearance is still an issue though, so I stick to roads that are maintained by snowplows. The Model Y's clearance isn't sufficient if e.g. 1-2 feet of snow fell the night before - I've been stuck a few times because the car became high centered.
 
I actually agree with this theory. Especially, because of Elon's "Almost all input is error" stance, the vehicle will try to intelligently identify the conditions where a 50/50 split is needed and activate it automatically, rather than let us dumb users control it. I get where he's coming from but it's very arrogant when it doesn't work perfectly and a mechanism for manual override should always be available, in my opinion.
Yeah, it's frustrating for those of us who have to drive in snowy/icy conditions. For now though, the Off-Road Assist mode is a decent compromise: manual split of power that doesn't stay on permanently, only during a driving session then resets.
 

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