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Winter Tires question - rolling resistance?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by Stimyg, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Stimyg

    Stimyg Member

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    I think I'm finally going to get a second set of rims and winter tires for my 2013 Model S 85. I'd been using a different 4WD car in the winter until now, but it just broke down, so screw that old car.

    I'm trying to decide between just buying the Tesla winter tire package, or getting some used rims and buying snow tires separate to put on it (assuming the Tesla service centers are willing to do that now?)

    I live in NY but do a lot of driving in the snow. I've bought a bunch of snow tires over the years, usually order from Tirerack, and normally I just use their reviews and surveys to make my selection.

    I've seen some of the discussions about various winter tires for the Tesla. But it leaves me with two question:

    First, can anyone suggest a "top 3 tires to consider from the feedback of TMC users"? I haven't found a thread (or poll?) that sums it all up.

    And second, related: should I be concerned about rolling resistance on various winter tires, e.g., not just going by Tirerack's usual charts?

    I wonder if the reason Tesla suggests the tires they do is perhaps because they offer a good balance between winter tire performance and rolling resistance. Or am I overthinking it?

    Thanks!
     
  2. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Service centres are very hit or miss on this one, the nice part though is that a wheel is a wheel and any tire place can do this, you don't have to use Tesla if your particular service centre isn't accommodating.
    As for which option to get, getting your own rims and tires is cheaper than the Tesla winter tire package, and will probably get you better tires, the ones Tesla offers aren't know to be the best winter tires.

    Best one I know of is in the Canada section Winter Tires and Rims - Canadian Availability It is Canadian specific, but it's still good info, and much of it is identical for the US.
    I can't recommend a "top 3", but I can tell you there are 2 that stand out above anything else. Michelin X-Ice3 and Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 these are generally known as the best tires available for winter. I personally swear by the Hakkas, but some people prefer the X-Ice


    Yes you should. Both the X-Ice and Hakkapelitta tires are low rolling resistance tires, this makes a big difference and is not the case of all winter tires.

    You're over thinking it. There doesn't seem to be anything the Tesla choice has that is any better in any way than the 2 choices I listed above. Not performance, not rolling resistance, not price.
     
  3. Stimyg

    Stimyg Member

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    Great thanks for info.

    While I'm at it - do wheels matter? Should I be looking at something of a particular weight or as long as tire rack says it fits the car, is that good enough? I see some rial lugano's for $189/per.

    i guess I also need to add TPMS sensors? And what's the deal with the "oem center cap" that tirerack says I need to get from the dealer...?

    sorry for getting a little off my own topic
     
  4. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    I like the Rials and that's what I'm using. the OEM centre cap is just the cap that came with your existing wheels I transferred the ones from my 21s
    Cheapest place for TPMS sensors is straight from Tesla $50 each.
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    1. Top three are Nokian R2, Michelin X-ice, Nokian WR-g3.

    2. You aren't going to be setting any Wh/mi records when driving through snow.

    3. Tesla's winter tire is based, I assume, on the premise that in winter the average driver seldom encounters snow. If you live where it snows, it's not even remotely the best recommendation.
     
  6. spacific

    spacific New Member

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    #6 spacific, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2016
    Winter tires.

    I have the R2s, my co-worker has the X-ice. We are both in our second winter season. They are amazing in harsh winter driving conditions. We have 2013 RWD Model S, and I feel safer in my Tesla than my SUV.
     
  7. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Just a note that the WRG3 is not technically a winter tire, but an "all-weather" tire, these are a step up from all-season tires, but still nowhere near what winter tires are. (My last 2 work vehicles have had WRG3 tires, my last 2 personal vehicles have had Nokian hakkapeliittas, there's no comparison, the Hakkas are lightyears ahead in winter.) If you want something you can run year-round in a place that gets some snow, or if you want to run them in winter "just in case" you get a few days of bad weather, they're fine, but if you get real winter conditions for several months on end, I would recommend a real winter tire over an all-weather tire.
     
  8. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Which is why I listed them third.
     
  9. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    I'm sure there are other dedicated winter tires out there that would outperform them.
     
  10. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    No doubt there are some, but probably not that many. However the three I mentioned are the one most popular in TMC.
     
  11. blanche

    blanche Member

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    Highly recommend the 19" Rials. I've used them on Porsches, BMWs and now my P85D. I went with Michelin X-Ice tires. If you get them from TireRack.com, make sure you check the box for TPMS. It will come with TPMS installed and the tires mounted and balanced. All you have to do is swap them yourselves or have them drop shipped to the nearest tire shop to your house.
     
  12. Blue_Model_S

    Blue_Model_S Member

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    Michelin X-Ice XI13
    Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2
    Bridgestone Blizzak WS80

    More details at Best Family Car Tires - Consumer Reports
     
  13. Odenator

    Odenator P2607

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    I swear by my 245/45/R19 Nokian Hakka R2's on my P85. They are more efficient on cold roads than my 21" Continentals and Michelins. I never thought I'd get more range from winter tires than on summer tires.
     
  14. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    My 19" Nokian Hakka R2s on Tesla rims are indistinguishable in terms of range/efficiency compared to the stock Goodyears and replacement (new OEM) Michelin Primacy tires that I use in summer.
     
  15. gerti

    gerti Member

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    It always surprises me that folks make suggestions without considering the "where". The R2s may be the best snow and ice tires. They aren't that good on dry and wet roads though. Here in the urban areas of Minnesota we have excellent winter service (with some exceptions). So most of the time the roads are going to be dry, frequently they are wet, occasionally iced over, and every now and then you'll have to drive in snow. I kind of doubt the R2s would be the best choice here, and something like the Nokian WR-g3 may be better suited.
     
  16. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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    1. Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2
    2. Michelin XICE XI3

    I wouldn't consider anything else. The Nokians are slightly better, but the Michelins are close.

    I've run Blizzak LM-60 in the past and temporarily ran them on my P85+ but they do not meet the minimum load rating required for the Model S. Tire rack sold them to me for my model s and contacted me after I'd been running them for a week to give me the news. They swapped them at no cost for the XICE XI3.
     
  17. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    +1

    The Nokian Hakka R2's have very similar efficiency to the Michelin Primacy tires and are GREAT winter/snow tires.
     
  18. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    Can confirm, on the 2nd winter with the Ice3 and they are excellent. Can also confirm they are still low-rolling resistance and still almost as good a range as the Primacys. Maybe 10-15 watts per mile difference.
     
  19. bhzmark

    bhzmark Active Member

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    #19 bhzmark, Jan 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2016
    consumer's reports has a good recent test of tires including the rolling resistance. Product & Services | Ratings & Reviews - Consumer Reports

    The tires with the top rating rolling resistance are:

    Michelin X-ICE
    Nokian R2 (Nokian is a little noisier -- otherwise tied with X-ICE)

    These two tires also happened to be the top rated winter tires overall.

    Nikian WRG3 and Blizzak were two ratings down on rolling resistance

    Pirelli Sottozero Winter 240 Serie II was one rating down on rolling resistance and very noisy but excellent snow traction. Only the WRG3 had better dry and wet braking performance.

    X-ICE and WRG3 were the quietest tires.

    Giving up a little snow and ice traction for much better wet and dry braking and a quieter tire makes the WRG3 look like a great option. Wish the rolling resistance were better.

    A few selected highlights for tires often discussed here are below. Better to see the full article at Product & Services | Ratings & Reviews - Consumer Reports

    tires.JPG
     
  20. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    While the rolling resistance of the WR-g3 is not as good as previous WR series tires, it's not all that bad either. In the order of 20-30 Wh/mile on my car, that's about 8% - 12%. And not all of that would be tires (includes cold air and wet roads).

    Also the chart likely only rates one size of tire. Different sizes can (and often do) have different values.
     

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