Yellow Border

[re04586]

The exclusion would probably be for automotive use and it is irrelevant if their supplier has an exclusion on the warranty, that is Tesla’s problem, not ours.

Certainly, but I interpret that Tesla response as saying it is an exclusion to their own new vehicle warranty, not the supplier’s warranty.

 

[Mark_T]

Certainly, but I interpret that Tesla response as saying it is an exclusion to their own new vehicle warranty, not the supplier’s warranty.

Then they should have no problems providing the wording which they feel covers this...

... and be prepared for a court to disagree with their own self-serving interpretation...

 

[whitex]

I got two different excuses in the same visit, but the legal one not yet. However, given that both excuses I did get ("you're on the list for a new one" and "we have many magic fixing machines coming soon") are completely open-ended and without any deadlines, once I get my invoice with whatever excuse, next step is a formal dispute path. This is no longer just about the money, this is about principle.

Btw, even stalling for time seems like a cheap and sleazy tactic, because they don't extend the screen warranty when they replace it, so by stalling they are just eating up the screen warranty. To illustrate, let's assume the screen dies exactly 12 months after installation; so instead of replacing it 4 times per car during the warranty, they stall for time, replace it less than 12 months before your warranty ends, and tada - tons of money saved because you screen dies again after warranty. Assuming there is some percentage, however small, of screens which don't yellow, I want to go through as many screen swaps under warranty as possible to increase the chances of getting a good screen. If it's only 75% of screen which die, I have a 25% change each time that I get a good one, so if I do 4 swaps - at least that's 68% change of getting a good screen, if I only do one swap, 25% change of getting a good one!

PS> I wonder how much trade-in value the yellow screen takes away. I am looking at an eTron this weekend anyways, I might ask for a trade-in estimate with and without the yellow screen - would be a good way to gauge "damages" in case this goes to court.

 

[whitex]

Certainly, but I interpret that Tesla response as saying it is an exclusion to their own new vehicle warranty, not the supplier’s warranty.

The wording (included highlighted text below for convenience) clearly states that they learned from the supplier that this is excluded, THEREFORE they are excluding it from Tesla warranty. This is a very weak and almost funny argument from a lawyer, basically sounds like a legal intern thought of it (maybe Elon fired all competent lawyers by now). Warranty exclusions always apply to improper, or out of spec, usage. If the supplier excluded it without the part being damaged, that means they determined the part was used outside of its specified operating range. Now, for Tesla to exclude it, they would have to prove that the drivers somehow used the screen not in the way it was intended, which damaged it. If that is the argument they give me, it will be brain-dead simple to take that apart in small claims court.

We recently learned the genesis of the issue from the supplier so that’s why we’ve changed course on our position re warranty coverage. Our warranty language remains the same, and now we’ve determined from our supplier that the issue falls under an exclusion and therefore it is excluded from the warranty. The fact that we previously did not know that and thus previously replaced some touchscreens doesn’t change that.

 

[re04586]

The wording (included highlighted text below for convenience) clearly states that they learned from the supplier that this is excluded, THEREFORE they are excluding it from Tesla warranty. This is a very weak and almost funny argument from a lawyer, basically sounds like a legal intern thought of it (maybe Elon fired all competent lawyers by now). Warranty exclusions always apply to improper, or out of spec, usage. If the supplier excluded it without the part being damaged, that means they determined the part was used outside of its specified operating range. Now, for Tesla to exclude it, they would have to prove that the drivers somehow used the screen not in the way it was intended, which damaged it. If that is the argument they give me, it will be brain-dead simple to take that apart in small claims court.

I think we are saying the same thing?

Regardless, we can agree that Telsa's arrangement with the supplier is irrelevant to the customer's arrangement with Tesla. These are two seperate things, and for them to conflate the two is laughable.

The whole response was bizarre, and whether its fair or not, I can't help but question its authenticity.

 

[whitex]

I think we are saying the same thing?

Regardless, we can agree that Telsa's arrangement with the supplier is irrelevant to the customer's arrangement with Tesla. These are two seperate things, and for them to conflate the two is laughable.

The whole response was bizarre, and whether its fair or not, I can't help but question its authenticity.

Yea, for me too, which is why I prefaced my last statement with "if that is the argument they give me". That said, Elon has made many bizarre moves and statements before, so I wouldn't put that passed him (hey, in his logic all Teslas are appreciating assets to be worth $250K next year, and deleting a twitter account is the same as deleting a twitter post about deleting a twitter account). It would be nice for me if that was their legal response, because it would be trivial take apart in court, if needed.

 

[electronblue]

The wording (included highlighted text below for convenience) clearly states that they learned from the supplier that this is excluded, THEREFORE they are excluding it from Tesla warranty. This is a very weak and almost funny argument from a lawyer, basically sounds like a legal intern thought of it (maybe Elon fired all competent lawyers by now). Warranty exclusions always apply to improper, or out of spec, usage. If the supplier excluded it without the part being damaged, that means they determined the part was used outside of its specified operating range. Now, for Tesla to exclude it, they would have to prove that the drivers somehow used the screen not in the way it was intended, which damaged it. If that is the argument they give me, it will be brain-dead simple to take that apart in small claims court.

Isn’t this just par for the course for Tesla though?

They have a long history of trying to skirt warranty obligations:

Is there any reason to think Tesla would not do this intentionally?

They have done it several times including with the notorious 90 kWh packs, DC charge nerfing and launch counter limits:

If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

Right now they are attempting to avoid warranty obligations with things like MCU yellow borders and Model 3 paint:

Yellow Border

Model 3 paint wearing off

Tesla seems to have a history of pushing technology too far for its specs, testing too little and then attempting to walk away with some excuses and software update or two.

The lack of transparency from Tesla is another thing. They do this under a veil of silence, hype and false hope placed on future software updates (see P85D and P90DL performance misses as another case).

 

[whitex]

Isn’t this just par for the course for Tesla though?

They have a long history of trying to skirt warranty obligations:

Those first examples are actually a different issue - they were limiting products after realizing damage may occur. The problem with that is not that they limited them, but rather that those limits crippled the product functionality spec advertised. So, for example, they limit Model S speed to 155mph. Yes the car could go faster, but they don't let it, in order to prevent damage. Is that a problem? Of course, not, because, they advertise that as the maximum speed the car can achieve. If however they were to sell the car as 155mph car, and then limit it to 100mph after realizing the car will be damaged above 100mph, now that would be a problem.

 

[electronblue]

Those first examples are actually a different issue - they were limiting products after realizing damage may occur. The problem with that is not that they limited them, but rather that those limits crippled the product functionality spec advertised. So, for example, they limit Model S speed to 155mph. Yes the car could go faster, but they don't let it, in order to prevent damage. Is that a problem? Of course, not, because, they advertise that as the maximum speed the car can achieve. If however they were to sell the car as 155mph car, and then limit it to 100mph after realizing the car will be damaged above 100mph, now that would be a problem.

I don’t think they are that different. They spoke of a need to make changes to product and policy to avoid the cost (even where those changes were detrimental to the customer and/or against the specs customers bought like in the performance nerfing cases) — as well as a prospensity to offer forward-looking statements as a way to buy time today.

Both have happened with the yellow borders.

Also the yellow borders are a result of hubris in parts acquisition in refusal to use automotive-grade parts again something that is similar to lack of testing or pushing features beyond conservative recommendations which is common to Tesla. It was all good back in the day when Tesla ”made it right” but that has not been the case since late 2014 or so for an increasing number of missed promises.

 

[whitex]

I don’t think they are that different. They spoke of a need to make changes to product and policy to avoid the cost (even where those changes were detrimental to the customer and/or against the specs customers bought like in the performance nerfing cases) — as well as a prospensity to offer forward-looking statements as a way to buy time today.

Both have happened with the yellow borders.

Also the yellow borders are a result of hubris in parts acquisition in refusal to use automotive-grade parts again something that is similar to lack of testing or pushing features beyond conservative recommendations which is common to Tesla. It was all good back in the day when Tesla ”made it right” but that has not been the case since late 2014 or so for an increasing number of missed promises.

Ok, when you frame it like that, I see the similarities. The new screens by the way are the ones with massive yellowing problem (I got a sense from a tech I spoke with that it's a very large number of cars) - Tesla redesigned the screen and just deployed it to production without testing. People laugh at Porsche for taking years to test their cars, in different climates, driving millions of miles (literally, not a hyperbole) before they plan to release the Taycan, but you know what, I bet the parts and service logistics will be worked out, and there won't be massive yellowing screens.

 

[A-Wimoweh]

@ic1101 - You should send the warranty exclusion response you got to some Tesla news sites, like Teslarati. I'm sure they would love to post that...

 

[Ken7]

This is part of an email I received from Tesla Legal a few days ago:
We recently learned the genesis of the issue from the supplier so that’s why we’ve changed course on our position re warranty coverage. Our warranty language remains the same, and now we’ve determined from our supplier that the issue falls under an exclusion and therefore it is excluded from the warranty. The fact that we previously did not know that and thus previously replaced some touchscreens doesn’t change that.

​

My head just exploded. Excuse me while I pick up the pieces.

 

[electronblue]

@ic1101 - You should send the warranty exclusion response you got to some Tesla news sites, like Teslarati. I'm sure they would love to post that...

Frankly I have seen reluctance in Tesla-focused sites on covering negative news.

For example the Model 3 paint issue is avoided far and wide while some trivial bit of positive news gets plastered all over.

 

[A-Wimoweh]

Or maybe send it to CNN, I've seen some Tesla news on there lately. I guess Elon deleted his twitter account so people can't tweet this kind of stuff to it.

 

[Mr.D]

As others here I am also experiencing the yellow border.
I was met with the response from my local SC stating that the yellow borders do not impact the functionality of the screen, thus not making it eligible for a replacement under warranty. Replacing the screen was not considered a permanent solution since the new screen could potentially experience that same discoloring.
Engineering is working on a fix with UV-light, but at this point in time a toolkit/solution is not available.
I was thus offered to purchase I new screen if I wanted to.....

For me this raises a *sugar* load of questions:

• If this is not a defect, why have they replaced it under TESLAS warranty previously?
• If this is not a defect, why are thy working on a fix?
• And if a fix is made available, is this fix free, because evidently it is not covered by warranty?
• If it is for free, why, just because they are kind?
• If this is by design, where is this feature described, and when is it supposed to happen, 6 months, 12 months etc?
• Why does some cars have this "feature" and others do not?
• If replacing the screens is not considered permanent, are they saying that every car being sold new today will have this issue sometime in the future?
• If no, why can't they install the "new" screens in our cars?
• This is only cosmetics has been argued, my car had some paint spills, they fixed these under warranty, but the paint spills does not effect the cars functions, so why is this covered by warranty?
• Also, my alu. frame around the screen had some small dents, only cosmetics, why is this replaced under warranty?

This is becoming a huge problem for Tesla, and is costing them a *sugar* load of money.
I don't know much about US law, but in Norway the law is clear. If it is a defect, it must be covered by the warranty.
I belive Tesla is stalling, trying to find a cheaper solution then replacing the screens as a fix. Which for me is fine, as long as the problem is fixed. According to Norwegian law, Tesla is obligated to fix the issue within a reasonable time frame (same time frame others manufacturers are providing). Thus if they do not find a solution, they are left with replacing the screen. Also, it is not guaranteed that the replacement screen will have the same issue, so I find it strange that they choose to forfeit their chance to try and fix the issue. By doing so, the are obligated to compensate the customers, the amount it will cost to replace the screen.

I have written a claim to Tesla, so I am currently waiting for their reply. If they do not replace the screen, I will go to legal actions. I Norway there is a consumer organization that supports and puts legal pressure on companies on consumer behalf in cases like these. Based on my dialog with them, they are stating this is an open shut case. Tesla is in fault on this one.

Edit: If Teslas screen supplier was smart enough to exclude this issue under warranty with Tesla, that was probably smart of them. However, my agreement is with Tesla, and they are still obligated to deliver on warranty even if they can't forward the costs to their suppliers.

 

[AWDtsla]

As others here I am also experiencing the yellow border.
I was met with the response from my local SC stating that the yellow borders do not impact the functionality of the screen, thus not making it eligible for a replacement under warranty. Replacing the screen was not considered a permanent solution since the new screen could potentially experience that same discoloring.
Engineering is working on a fix with UV-light, but at this point in time a toolkit/solution is not available.
I was thus offered to purchase I new screen if I wanted to.....

For me this raises a *sugar* load of questions:

• If this is not a defect, why have they replaced it under TESLAS warranty previously?
• If this is not a defect, why are thy working on a fix?
• And if a fix is made available, is this fix free, because evidently it is not covered by warranty?
• If it is for free, why, just because they are kind?
• If this is by design, where is this feature described, and when is it supposed to happen, 6 months, 12 months etc?
• Why does some cars have this "feature" and others do not?
• If replacing the screens is not considered permanent, are they saying that every car being sold new today will have this issue sometime in the future?
• If no, why can't they install the "new" screens in our cars?
• This is only cosmetics has been argued, my car had some paint spills, they fixed these under warranty, but the paint spills does not effect the cars functions, so why is this covered by warranty?
• Also, my alu. frame around the screen had some small dents, only cosmetics, why is this replaced under warranty?

This is becoming a huge problem for Tesla, and is costing them a *sugar* load of money.
I don't know much about US law, but in Norway the law is clear. If it is a defect, it must be covered by the warranty.
I belive Tesla is stalling, trying to find a cheaper solution then replacing the screens as a fix. Which for me is fine, as long as the problem is fixed. According to Norwegian law, Tesla is obligated to fix the issue within a reasonable time frame (same time frame others manufacturers are providing). Thus if they do not find a solution, they are left with replacing the screen. Also, it is not guaranteed that the replacement screen will have the same issue, so I find it strange that they choose to forfeit their chance to try and fix the issue. By doing so, the are obligated to compensate the customers, the amount it will cost to replace the screen.

I have written a claim to Tesla, so I am currently waiting for their reply. If they do not replace the screen, I will go to legal actions. I Norway there is a consumer organization that supports and puts legal pressure on companies on consumer behalf in cases like these. Based on my dialog with them, they are stating this is an open shut case. Tesla is in fault on this one.

Edit: If Teslas screen supplier was smart enough to exclude this issue under warranty with Tesla, that was probably smart of them. However, my agreement is with Tesla, and they are still obligated to deliver on warranty even if they can't forward the costs to their suppliers.

Unfortunately as with the 691HP issue, this would only affect/help owners in Norway.

 

[strider]

This upsets me. Bought an inventory car back in December and had the yellow border from Day 1. I had read on here that they were working on a perm fix so I didn't reach out to me Ranger. Once I read on here that they were replacing screens I contacted my Ranger and got the "cosmetic" response.

I'm still hopeful that they fix it. I'm looking forward to the pickup but only if they can make this right.

 

[electronblue]

I'm looking forward to the pickup but only if they can make this right.

Yeah, Tesla’s service and build quality has been going so much downhill that I fell the risk of next Tesla being worse than the last is too high to risk... better just stick to the current one as long as I feel like it. Having paid for an AP2 FSD at original prices kind of helps motivate keeping it too to get something from that high a price given the massive price cuts later...

 

[jrtech]

If you can find a comparable deal, I would exchange it before the 7 day exchange period is over.

The border will worsen over time, and consume your driving experience - it has for me anyways even though some may find that silly.

Agreed. I tried talking myself into thinking it wasn’t a big deal but after seeing the border I could not unsee it. Ended up returning the vehicle and grabbing another S that didn’t have the border (at least for now). Wasn’t the exact same specifications that I wanted but was still fine. Here’s hoping I have better luck with this one.

 

[re04586]

Agreed. I tried talking myself into thinking it wasn’t a big deal but after seeing the border I could not unsee it. Ended up returning the vehicle and grabbing another S that didn’t have the border (at least for now). Wasn’t the exact same specifications that I wanted but was still fine. Here’s hoping I have better luck with this one.

Good luck, I think you made the right decision, because like you said, once you see it, you can’t unsee it.