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Yellow screen? Force Tesla to Replace it!

T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
-37
Pennsylvania
A Class Action would fix this issue long term for all Tesla owners... we just need someone to step up.

I believe the warranty excludes a class action suit in the same way as requiring arbitration. This was enabled by law many years ago. They do have to give you an opt out, but the company can limit that to the first 30 days and require it to be sent by mail.

I've learned my lesson. Anything I buy worth more than $100 means I send the letter with a return receipt. I wonder if your rights are still preserved if they refuse to sign for it. lol
 

testhrowaway

Member
Jul 1, 2019
40
369
california
If enough people go to arbitration and win, that will hurt a lot more than just fixing the durn things in the first place. If they get taken to arbitration a couple of times before losing, it will get very expensive for them. How much does it cost the consumer to go to arbitration and lose? I believe if you win Tesla has to pay it all, no?
They have to pay for it regardless when its the NCDS arbitration.

Interesting note I've just discovered: AFAIK we have added quite a bit to the total volume of NCDS arbitration cases Tesla has had:

My first case was 19004X, my second case (for the scratched chrome) was 1910X. I reached out to a few people to validate their numbers, and they were all in that realm.

so my theory is the case numbers are sequential, with the first being TES190001. That means in their entire time they only had 40-some odd cases before this thread. In the time of this thread, thats more then doubled (at least 2.5x in fact) to 100+. (which makes me wonder what method people that have been doing lemon law claims have been using?)

(NOTE: this is pure speculation, I have no proof other then my two case numbers and 3 other people's case numbers)
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,323
33,232
Oregon
which makes me wonder what method people that have been doing lemon law claims have been using?

Most people aren't actually making a lemon law claim. When it has gotten to that point Tesla will normally make a buy-back offer. That allows them to avoid the title being branded. So they can just fix the car and sell it as a used car with a clean title. (And is probably cheaper.)
 

Az_Rael

Supporting Member
Jan 26, 2016
5,619
8,793
Palmdale, CA
Most people aren't actually making a lemon law claim. When it has gotten to that point Tesla will normally make a buy-back offer. That allows them to avoid the title being branded. So they can just fix the car and sell it as a used car with a clean title. (And is probably cheaper.)

Exactly, I think someone on Reddit ecently posted their bought back VIN when Tesla put it up for sale on the used site with a clean title.
 

T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
-37
Pennsylvania
Most people aren't actually making a lemon law claim. When it has gotten to that point Tesla will normally make a buy-back offer. That allows them to avoid the title being branded. So they can just fix the car and sell it as a used car with a clean title. (And is probably cheaper.)

Fix it? Why would they buy it back if they were going to fix it? lol

I thought about using the lemon law, but here I'd have to live and register the car in the same state I bought it in. They don't sell or service Teslas in SC where I lived when I bought the car, so unlikely I can use a lemon law no matter where I am when I want to go head to head with Tesla.

My drive line shudder is pretty bad when I whomp on the gas... er, accelerator. I like to merge in traffic by making sure no one can rear end me. I don't find a model X to be easy to see out of. Once I was accelerating mildly around 30 and it "shuddered" like the motor was going to fall out. In an ICE I would be looking at motor mounts. I doubt a Tesla has rubber mounts, no real need.
 

T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
-37
Pennsylvania
My first case was 19004X, my second case (for the scratched chrome) was 1910X. I reached out to a few people to validate their numbers, and they were all in that realm.

so my theory is the case numbers are sequential, with the first being TES190001. That means in their entire time they only had 40-some odd cases before this thread. In the time of this thread, thats more then doubled (at least 2.5x in fact) to 100+. (which makes me wonder what method people that have been doing lemon law claims have been using?)

(NOTE: this is pure speculation, I have no proof other then my two case numbers and 3 other people's case numbers)

I expect you are right except I think the "19" is the year, so earlier cases would be TES18xxxx or even TES17xxxx. I guess they don't expect to see more than 10,000 a year. We need to work on that. lol
 

wildag

Member
Jul 3, 2017
112
226
Fairfax, VA
If enough people go to arbitration and win, that will hurt a lot more than just fixing the durn things in the first place. If they get taken to arbitration a couple of times before losing, it will get very expensive for them. How much does it cost the consumer to go to arbitration and lose? I believe if you win Tesla has to pay it all, no?

Win or loose, Tesla pays for the cost of arbitration either way. The result is non-binding on you - unless you accept it or don't reply to the result. You can take Tesla to court after loosing. Tesla is minority incentivized to skip the arbitration - but the cost to them is negligible compared to their daily operations.
 

testhrowaway

Member
Jul 1, 2019
40
369
california
I expect you are right except I think the "19" is the year, so earlier cases would be TES18xxxx or even TES17xxxx. I guess they don't expect to see more than 10,000 a year. We need to work on that. lol
I'm an idiot, that is incredibly obvious in retrospect and makes much more sense.

That said, we managed to more than double their volume this year in one month!
 

P100D_Me

Member
Nov 12, 2018
993
933
Australia
Has anyone recently had the UV treatment done? Can you please post before and after photos?
I have convinced myself this will be a temporary fix, it is the cheapest option for Tesla to try but if they start yellowing again in 4 to 6 months then they have no place to go but dig their heels in deeper to not have to replace the screens or take a big financial hit and be forced to do it.

FWIW, for those of us outside the US we are still being told there is no time line when these magic UV machines will be sent to international markets. Given Tesla's time lines usually involve taking the stated value and multiply by three I'm thinking we are at least a year off.
 

dannycamps

Member
Apr 8, 2019
675
616
Northeast USA
Has anyone recently had the UV treatment done? Can you please post before and after photos?

I know some people had the treatment with mixed results but in my case, it worked fine. No recurrence yet but it's only been about 45 days. My only gripe is that they missed the very bottom edge of my screen - most likely due to inexperience with the tool (my car was a guinea pig) and the fact that it can't be seen unless the sun is literally beaming off the screen at a perfect angle (so couldn't be seen in the service center even with sketchpad, etc... showing on screen).

Yellow Border

I am more than satisfied with the result (as long as it doesn't come back of course :) )
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,448
7,634
Seattle area, WA
Update: I had mine repaired. The screen looks fixed - the yellow border is gone (I haven't taken a magnifying glass to it, but I don't really care about things too small to notice with a quick "once over", the old yellow border was more than obvious).

It was billed as good-will service. I asked why and noticed a new thing, rather than make up an answer on the spot, the adviser punched it into his computer, then it took a couple of minutes to get an answer - maybe Tesla is attempting to at least start providing consistent communications? Or maybe he was just new, since after he got the answer he commented that Tesla does things in brand new ways compared to other car manufacturers he's worked at. The answer by the way was "we record all repairs which don't require parts as good-will". I was also told that reapplying during warranty, should it become necessary, would be another good-will service, since yellowing is not covered under warranty because it doesn't impact screen functionality. Oh, and should the fix fail after warranty, re-applying the fix costs 2hrs of time (so $310+tax at the posted $155/hr rate).
 

KArnold

Member
May 21, 2017
519
506
Columbus OH
It was billed as good-will service
Good info, thanks. Problem with "goodwill" is that Tesla has also stated it is a one-time gesture, whether warrantied or not. After 1 treatment you have to pay if a 2nd application is needed. For this reason, speed of seriously delayed service, and others I chose the NCDS route.

So much trouble on everyone's part could be avoided if Tesla would simply talk to their customers. I've never seen a company apparently deathly afraid to talk to their existing clientele. I have 2 simple questions submitted to their support people via my web account for weeks now - silence. Incredible.
 
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sixela

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
1,278
1,400
Boechout
The answer by the way was "we record all repairs which don't require parts as good-will". I was also told that reapplying during warranty, should it become necessary, would be another good-will service, since yellowing is not covered under warranty because it doesn't impact screen functionality. Oh, and should the fix fail after warranty, re-applying the fix costs 2hrs of time (so $310+tax at the posted $155/hr rate).

I guess that should be extremely easy to challenge in arbitration, at least unless the fix works for a very long period of time (in Europe, good luck arguing that if the fix doesn't hold for at least two years it's not under warranty just because the warranty on the rest of the car has expired -- there is also a warranty on repairs).

But then, I doubt even they know whether the fix is permanent or not (yet). They're just making as few promises as they think they can get away with (or even not get away with, which would be cynical but it wouldn't be the first company I saw trying that).

I trust you made it clear that you were not agreeing on their interpretation that it was not covered under warranty?
 

T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
-37
Pennsylvania
I have convinced myself this will be a temporary fix, it is the cheapest option for Tesla to try but if they start yellowing again in 4 to 6 months then they have no place to go but dig their heels in deeper to not have to replace the screens or take a big financial hit and be forced to do it.

FWIW, for those of us outside the US we are still being told there is no time line when these magic UV machines will be sent to international markets. Given Tesla's time lines usually involve taking the stated value and multiply by three I'm thinking we are at least a year off.

Interesting pics. Yours is clearly yellow. Mine is pretty much brown. I wonder if they are the same thing. While it makes text hard to read around the periphery, it can't be seen at the bottom because that's all black. On yours the yellow stands out like a sore thumb.
 

T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
-37
Pennsylvania
Update: I had mine repaired. The screen looks fixed - the yellow border is gone (I haven't taken a magnifying glass to it, but I don't really care about things too small to notice with a quick "once over", the old yellow border was more than obvious).

It was billed as good-will service. I asked why and noticed a new thing, rather than make up an answer on the spot, the adviser punched it into his computer, then it took a couple of minutes to get an answer - maybe Tesla is attempting to at least start providing consistent communications? Or maybe he was just new, since after he got the answer he commented that Tesla does things in brand new ways compared to other car manufacturers he's worked at. The answer by the way was "we record all repairs which don't require parts as good-will". I was also told that reapplying during warranty, should it become necessary, would be another good-will service, since yellowing is not covered under warranty because it doesn't impact screen functionality. Oh, and should the fix fail after warranty, re-applying the fix costs 2hrs of time (so $310+tax at the posted $155/hr rate).

Funny answer about "good-will" repairs. I had three cracks in my windshield which were caused by using the defroster. There were no stone chips. When I had it replaced at my first service center visit they wanted to charge me $1400 or so. I told them it was a defect and they needed to cover it under warranty. They ended up taking it off my bill, but it was listed as good-will rather than warranty.

So the "no parts" story doesn't hold water. At the time I knew of their money issues and know that on the financial reports there is a category for "good will". I don't know how they account for that, but I assumed this had something to do with why they would account for things replaced other than under warranty. Maybe one of the stock savvy people here can add to this?
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,448
7,634
Seattle area, WA
Good info, thanks. Problem with "goodwill" is that Tesla has also stated it is a one-time gesture, whether warrantied or not.

I asked if they would change it, the answer was a firm no. While waiting there I was listening to other customers and their problems. I realized that the staff there was completely powerless, so decided there is absolutely no reason to try to fight them, there really isn't much they can do so I have absolutely nothing to gain other than venting. If corporate says "good-will, no option", why bother to give the staff a hard time? If I'm going to fight anyone, it will be the corporate Tesla.

After 1 treatment you have to pay if a 2nd application is needed. For this reason, speed of seriously delayed service, and others I chose the NCDS route.

I was told that repeat treatments are covered while under warranty. The answer to your next question is no, I did not get that in writing. Not sure that it matters with Tesla anyways, I do have emails from service from before stating yellow screen would be covered under warranty. I figure they could claim the employee was uninformed in either case, so why bother.

I trust you made it clear that you were not agreeing on their interpretation that it was not covered under warranty?

I signed nothing saying I agree it's a good will repair. If it breaks, and they fix it again, no problem. If they refuse to fix it or give me some runaround to wait months until the machine comes back to the SvC again, I can take it via the NCDS route then. I was actually just about to go through the NCDS, but decided to email the service center one last time to find out whether the fix is available and they replied it was, so I scheduled a fix. I'm reasonable and practical.

I will tell you something else though. It is my wife's car which has this problem, she dropped it off, I told her I would pick it up because I was thinking about upgrading my P85DL to a Raven P100DL. However, after sitting there waiting to pick up the car, listening to other folks and their frustrations with issues like non-reproducible errors and getting charged for diagnostics (to be fair, service waved them but explained to the customer if he brings it back again and they can't repro what I understood to be A/C failing, they will have to charge him 2 hrs shop time), it cured me. It really made me think - my P85DL is in good shape, little battery degradation, MCU getting slow but the new one has got issues too (my wife's car has MCU2). Getting a new Tesla is just rolling the dice to potentially have more issues to deal with in exchange for a quieter car with some extra power (P85DL is not slow by any means, even though it doesn't produce the originally advertised power). Even if I have to replace the MCU on the old car at some point, it's still better than chancing it with a brand new Tesla. The "evil you know" I guess?
 
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T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
-37
Pennsylvania
There is a TSB for that, so they can probably fix it fairly easily now. (The fix is relatively new.)

So if I've brought my car in to have this fixed and they turn me away saying, "they are working on a fix for that". Don't you think they would contact me about the fix once they knew it was available?

My understanding is the "new fix" is just the same as the old fix. They replace the drive shafts. Does this actually "fix" the problem or just fix it for a while like the yellow border on the screen?
 

T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
-37
Pennsylvania
I will tell you something else though. It is my wife's car which has this problem, she dropped it off, I told her I would pick it up because I was thinking about upgrading my P85DL to a Raven P100DL. However, after sitting there waiting to pick up the car, listening to other folks and their frustrations with issues like non-reproducible errors and getting charged for diagnostics (to be fair, service waved them but explained to the customer if he brings it back again and they can't repro what I understood to be A/C failing, they will have to charge him 2 hrs shop time), it cured me. It really made me think - my P85DL is in good shape, little battery degradation, MCU getting slow but the new one has got issues too (my wife's car has MCU2). Getting a new Tesla is just rolling the dice to potentially have more issues to deal with in exchange for a quieter car with some extra power (P85DL is not slow by any means, even though it doesn't produce the originally advertised power). Even if I have to replace the MCU on the old car at some point, it's still better than chancing it with a brand new Tesla. The "evil you know" I guess?

I'm impressed that you are so charitable about this. I am totally pissed off. If I didn't have free supercharging for life I would probably be thinking of dumping the damn car as soon as I can. I feel really justified now that I know there are others being treated the same with intermittent problems. One problem they offered to fix the first time I brought the car in was the driver's window sticking. They would have had to order a small part and I would have had to bring the car back in (an hour each way, twice). I said I'd wait until I needed to bring it in again which was months later. Now they won't fix anything they can't reproduce. Most of the time it's no big deal if the window sticks. But when you are doing 70 on the highway and you open the window a bit to let a bug out or something, then it not only won't close, but when it sticks, it reverses and opens 100%!!!

It is truly sad to think a company who wants to change the way we all drive can't even figure out how to run the company well enough to encourage repeat customers. It's so mind boggling to think that with nearly all of their business coming from word of mouth they treat existing customers this way. Do they really expect to continue growing the business?
 

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