You pre-ordered a Tesla Model III, so what, do you have a Plug?

[alseTrick]

I rent.

There is on-site parking but there are no designated parking spots. The gate to enter the property also isn't automatic and the small parking lot is pretty narrow. I don't even bother with it and park on the street.

I think my landlord might be amenable to allowing me to have a charger installed, but I have no desire to do that at my current residence.

There is a free J1772 in a garage at my work (free parking). I did NOT know it was there prior to reserving my Model 3. There are only two spaces for one charger cable, but usually there's at least one space open when I arrive at work. I've never seen anyone parked at the charger when I leave work.

Obviously the charger will be more congested once the Model 3 rolls out, but I'm hopeful it will still empty out in the late afternoon/early evening hours and I can get a charge for a couple hours before heading back home. I'm also hopeful that my company will install additional chargers. There's also a prominent horse track, casino and retail outlet more or less next door that I'm hopeful will add some free chargers (parking is free) that I could go to and grab dinner now and then if need be. And who knows, maybe there will finally be a supercharger in Miami by the time I get my car (hopefully it'd actually be conveniently located for me, but I doubt it).

I may also want to move by the time 2018 comes around (no way I'm getting my car in 2017). But even then, I couldn't be certain about having a home-charging option. I only work 4 days a week and it's less than a 40-mile roundtrip commute.

I'll find a way. I will make it work. I am getting this car.

 

[Az_Rael]

A. Future Proof so that no additional electrical work is needed - New HPWCs can be daisy chained (Master/Slave) from one circuit. Once you own a BEV, you will most likely convert to all BEV so multiple BEVs can be charged off of the same circuit

B. Time-Of-Use Utility Rates - In some parts of the country, it costs significantly more to use power at certain times of the day. So, with a small window of low energy costs, some people would need a faster charging rate.

C. In some areas of the country, commuting to and from work is not a 20 mile round trip and there is not the luxury of Superchargers on the route. Therefore, working 8 - 10 hours with a hour commute back home, does not give much time to recharge before the next use.

D. With the Model 3 low entrance price, a new consumer will enter the picture. That consumer is the one-car family. So, As one partner arrives home, the other is off an going again. So while each trip may be short in distance, there are many throughout the day. Long charging times would potentially lead to a stranded driver with not enough charge to get back home. Or, once home, not enough time to fully recharge.

E. How many times has a person/family decided to hop in the car a go somewhere on the spur of the moment. Can't happen if you are charge on a 120V/15A circuit and you need 10 hours (12KWh) to 50 hours (60KWh) to fully recharge it.

Well, OK, but most of those (except D) can be met with a 50 Amp Level 2 charger (or less).


I live in a TOU area and I drive 80 miles round trip every day. I currently have a 24 Amp Level 2 charger and that will be plenty to keep my Model 3 charged daily within the TOU rates. For the occasional return home on empty with less than 5 hours until I go to work (I really hope that never happens because I need more sleep than that), I will have to hit the Mojave SC on the way in.

 

[Petra]

I included charging losses. Assuming 75% efficiency, my estimated 350 Wh/mile leaves 262 Wh/mile in the car.

I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention and missed that tidbit--sorry.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention and missed that tidbit--sorry.

No problem.

 

[ABCCBA]

This, my friend, is overkill! lol

Well, OK, but most of those (except D) can be met with a 50 Amp Level 2 charger (or less).


I live in a TOU area and I drive 80 miles round trip every day. I currently have a 24 Amp Level 2 charger and that will be plenty to keep my Model 3 charged daily within the TOU rates. For the occasional return home on empty with less than 5 hours until I go to work (I really hope that never happens because I need more sleep than that), I will have to hit the Mojave SC on the way in.

 

[Az_Rael]

View attachment 187520 This, my friend, is overkill! lol

LOL - that isn't overkill, that's my dream garage!

 

[JohnSnowNW]

We installed two NEMA 14-50's in our garage in anticipation of our Model X. Since we canceled, it now serves to charge our Leaf (with ClipperCreek EVSE), and soon Pacifica PHEV. We plan on moving before the M3 arrives, so we'll most likely have to install two more 14-50's at the new house. Whoever moves into our current house will be ready to go!

 

[eisbock]

I have no idea how I'll charge my Tesla. I've given it no thought whatsoever beyond thinking I'll charge at Superchargers, just like I 'charge' today at gas stations.

I also gave no thought to how I'd charge my laptop before I got the first one, or how I'd charge my various gadgets before I got them. Apple and amazon and so on kindly sent me cords and chargers and I managed to plug them into outlets all my own.

I assume that when Tesla reaches the masses of non-electrical engineers like me, they will sort things out.

Yikes.

You don't need to think about charging your phone. Everything comes in the box and you plug into the wall outlet in your bedroom, 5 feet from the bed. It's done charging in 2 hours.

You park your Tesla a lot farther away from your bedroom. Sure, everything comes in the box, but there is no convenient outlet nearby, nor is the in-box charger long enough to reach any outlets. So now you need to buy an extension cord and run it to that outlet in your bedroom. The cable is laying on the parking lot and likely no longer follows your building code. Your landlord wants you to keep that damn cable off the ground. Also, your charging cable is just sitting there out in the open. It's like going to the airport, finding an outlet and leaving your phone charging for 8 hours. Assuming your phone is equally heavy and hard to steal as a Tesla, there's a chance somebody may walk away with at least your charger, or potentially damage it.

While your phone finishes charging in 2 hours, your Tesla will take 4 days to charge. Not much more needs to be said here.

Filling up your gas tank takes 4 minutes. Filling up your Tesla takes 40 minutes, and that's not even all the way full! Fully filling it up takes 75 minutes. And you can only go half as far as your ICE car on a 40 min charge.

So you'll be "filling up" twice as often and each time will take 10 times longer. You will spend 20x longer at the gas station. That doesn't include time spent going out of your way to find a supercharger (because they're not at every corner on your route like gas stations) and the act of parking and fiddling with the plug.

You're looking at two hours spent at the "gas station" with a Tesla for every 4 minutes you spend at the same place with your ICE car. To put that in perspective, most people claim they can't go to the gym three days a week for an hour because they don't have the time. We've all felt that way, admit it. But that's only three hours per week. You'll spend two hours per week fueling your vehicle. How valuable is your time?

 

[dhanson865]

Will it be easier to get at least a (110 v-15A for US)

Impossible to get 110v in US, very few countries in the world use 110V* and the US isn't one of them.

Besides why look at 15A for US, Rather common to use 240V 30A or 240V 50A plugs here.

US and Canada use 120v
Mexico uses 127v

There are some countries that use 110v but they aren't the most common suspects
Mains electricity by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cuba is 110v
many Caribbean countries are 110v
Columbia is 110v
Taiwan is 110v

 

[littlecloudy]

Yikes.

You don't need to think about charging your phone. Everything comes in the box and you plug into the wall outlet in your bedroom, 5 feet from the bed. It's done charging in 2 hours.

You park your Tesla a lot farther away from your bedroom. Sure, everything comes in the box, but there is no convenient outlet nearby, nor is the in-box charger long enough to reach any outlets. So now you need to buy an extension cord and run it to that outlet in your bedroom. The cable is laying on the parking lot and likely no longer follows your building code. Your landlord wants you to keep that damn cable off the ground. Also, your charging cable is just sitting there out in the open. It's like going to the airport, finding an outlet and leaving your phone charging for 8 hours. Assuming your phone is equally heavy and hard to steal as a Tesla, there's a chance somebody may walk away with at least your charger, or potentially damage it.

While your phone finishes charging in 2 hours, your Tesla will take 4 days to charge. Not much more needs to be said here.

Filling up your gas tank takes 4 minutes. Filling up your Tesla takes 40 minutes, and that's not even all the way full! Fully filling it up takes 75 minutes. And you can only go half as far as your ICE car on a 40 min charge.

So you'll be "filling up" twice as often and each time will take 10 times longer. You will spend 20x longer at the gas station. That doesn't include time spent going out of your way to find a supercharger (because they're not at every corner on your route like gas stations) and the act of parking and fiddling with the plug.

You're looking at two hours spent at the "gas station" with a Tesla for every 4 minutes you spend at the same place with your ICE car. To put that in perspective, most people claim they can't go to the gym three days a week for an hour because they don't have the time. We've all felt that way, admit it. But that's only three hours per week. You'll spend two hours per week fueling your vehicle. How valuable is your time?

Is the conclusion therefore that if you don't own a house then - forget about owning a Tesla?

And that charging will require in the future loads of planning and so forth as it somewhat does today? And that you will never be able to go anywhere you want for as long as you want?

If true, then Tesla and EVs will never become mass market and we will never stop global warming.

If it can't truly replace the ICE, then that's that.

I assumed that all this will be taken care of, the Supercharger network will expand and 'other stuff' will happen, which as a non-engineer I don't need to think about. I think I represent the people who're not techies and don't own Teslas, i.e. the vast majority of the population. I'm such a huge fan and this is so discouraging to me that I really want to cry.

 

[Trips]

With the government finally behind EVs we should see that time come down.

"Charging, up to 350 KW, for EVs: DOE will partner with industry, the National Laboratories, and other stakeholders to develop a study that will examine the vehicle, battery, infrastructure, and economic implications of direct current (DC) fast charging of up to 350 kW, which is expected to be completed by the end of 2016. A 350 kW charging system could charge a 200 mile range battery in less than 10 minutes."

 

[Yggdrasill]

Is the conclusion therefore that if you don't own a house then - forget about owning a Tesla?

No. Everyone parks somewhere - we just need to get charging installed where the car is parked for the night and/or at work. In solar-rich countries it's actually better to charge at work, because then you can take advantage of the solar to charge the cars. (Currently the reverse is true, even in the US, because there isn't sufficient solar to drop prices during the day.)

Before charging becomes ubiquitous, EV adoption must be driven by those who have access to charging. Here in Norway something like 75% of the population lives in detached and semi-detached houses, probably another 10% of apartment dwellers can get charging where they live or at work, and another 5% of apartment dwellers live sufficiently urban that they don't need cars. Thus this is really only a problem for around 10% of the population.

This may be worse in the US, maybe only 50% of the population has relatively easy access to charging, but that is more than enough for Tesla to be a massive success. And then one just has to keep working at it, installing more and more charging, until everyone can have an EV.

 

[littlecloudy]

Before charging becomes ubiquitous, EV adoption must be driven by those who have access to charging....And then one just has to keep working at it, installing more and more charging, until everyone can have an EV.

I thought Model 3 was the mass market phase. I put down $1000 w/o thinking that I won't have anywhere to charge it. I'm not worried about the money, I know I can get it back. I've been lusting for a Tesla for years. It's my main ambition in life. It's become my main interest in life! I'm keeping my 20 yr old car going till then. I can wait 2 more years but I can't wait any longer. I thought we'd gotten to the point where 'everyone can have an EV'.

I think I need to hear something from Tesla about this.

If you don't own a home, then forget about Model 3?

 

[Yggdrasill]

I thought Model 3 was the mass market phase. I put down $1000 w/o thinking that I won't have anywhere to charge it. I'm not worried about the money, I know I can get it back. I've been lusting for a Tesla for years. It's my main ambition in life. It's become my main interest in life! I'm keeping my 20 yr old car going till then. I can wait 2 more years but I can't wait any longer. I thought we'd gotten to the point where 'everyone can have an EV'.

"Mass market" doesn't mean that everyone can have one. It just means that it's no longer a niche product. The BMW 3-series is a mass market product, yet there are people who can't afford it, or don't have parking, or whatever.

I think I need to hear something from Tesla about this.

If you don't own a home, then forget about Model 3?

If you're renting a home, talk to the landlord about getting charging installed. He should be happy if you cover the cost of a NEMA 6-15 near where you park (or something similar), as it raises the value of the property. This is relatively cheap and will cover your base needs.

If you live in an apartment, you need to talk to the manager or something. (I'm not sure how it works in the US).

 

[22522]

I thought... I thought we'd gotten to the point where 'everyone can have an EV'.

I think I need to hear something from Tesla about this.

If you don't own a home, then forget about Model 3?

Don't worry, for the vision to work this has to get solved. Tesla is pretty busy... Sometimes companies prefer control more than success. If Tesla is that way things might be rough. We are about half way to a nice solution.

 

[22522]

One more tidbit to add to that: charging at 240V is only about 87% efficient, with 120V being even less efficient than that (can't recall the 120V numbers for the S... I recall it being around 75% for the Leaf at 120V).

Hi Yggdrasill,

Where did you get these numbers? Pretty sure the onboard charger will be mid nineties from AC to the battery bus. Are you including round trip efficiency through the battery chemistry?

 

[SageBrush]

I hope nobody really thinks that plugging a Tesla into a '110 v-15A' outlet will be a viable charging solution.

I drive a very predictable 180 miles a week, so about 60 kWh max in the winter and 8.5 kWh a day.That works out to ~ 7 hours of charging a day.

I'll prefer a 220v solution but I'll manage with 110v just fine. I haven't bothered to check the garage yet since it is just not a big deal for me either way. I live in a home rental.

This is the power of artithmetic

 

[littlecloudy]

How do you ask Tesla a question? I wish they'd see this thread. This is a big deal.

This is precisely the sort of thing that Elon understands - you have to solve the whole problem to make the plan work. But what about charging for the common man/woman who doesn't control the means of production, i.e. the outlets...

 

[Yggdrasill]

How do you ask Tesla a question? I wish they'd see this thread. This is a big deal.

They have some email adresses on their website. But it's not a big deal, for Tesla. It's a big deal for society. I think laws should require all apartment complexes with parking to install charging at 50% of the parking spaces. I also think there should be a big rollout of public level 2 chargers everywhere there is street parking.

Even if it's not Teslas mission to solve the public infrastructure challenges, they do have a destination charger program. They are doing their part.

This is precisely the sort of thing that Elon understands - you have to solve the whole problem to make the plan work. But what about charging for the common man/woman who doesn't control the means of production, i.e. the outlets...

I have hard about people who own Teslas and don't have charging at home. It is doable, if you don't drive to much, and some inconvenience is acceptable. Some potential parts of the solution:

- Charging at work. 8-10 hours of charging 1-5 times a week can put a big dent in the total need for charging.
- Fast charging with CHAdeMO (with an adapter). It's fast but it's also usually pricey.
- Public Level 2 chargers. This is really only doable if there are any public level 2 chargers near your home or workplace, and you will likely need to walk some distance from our car, leaving it to charge for hours.
- Supercharging. They're usually not very conveniently located for meeting your base needs for charging, but they are fast and can be a part of the solution.

The best solution is charging at home - and this will always be the case.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Though, if the Model 3 will in fact be autonomous in the very near term, maybe you could send the car off to get charged while you sleep. It drives off to a Tesla charger, plugs itself in, charges and then returns home before you leave for work. This could be a Tesla service, to be rolled out in major cities for people without home charging.

(I think it's too much to hope for before 2019-2020.)