You pre-ordered a Tesla Model III, so what, do you have a Plug?

[Twiglett]

already have a J1772 installed.
Tried charging on 110V15A and gave up after a week or two.

 

[int32_t]

At the moment I'm renting and I would have to park on the street ... two strikes against any sort of at-home charging. However, there are two public chargers a relatively short distance away. That said, I have no idea if I'll still be here in two years' time. I have no qualms about getting an EV (particularly a Tesla, due to its long range) despite that though because electrons are far more common than gas stations!

-- Updated --

I'm buying a house so I can house and charge my future Model 3. I might as well live in in it too.

I was thinking of doing the same thing!

 

[ABCCBA]

And, for those who are currently paying for a parking, you could simply tell the car to go on an autonomous journey and return at a certain time, fully charged.

Wait!!!!, this is sounding just like Elon's Master Plan Part Duex of making money by renting out your car when you don't need it.

Wow!

Though, if the Model 3 will in fact be autonomous in the very near term, maybe you could send the car off to get charged while you sleep. It drives off to a Tesla charger, plugs itself in, charges and then returns home before you leave for work. This could be a Tesla service, to be rolled out in major cities for people without home charging.

(I think it's too much to hope for before 2019-2020.)

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

At the moment I'm renting and I would have to park on the street ... two strikes against any sort of at-home charging. However, there are two public chargers a relatively short distance away. That said, I have no idea if I'll still be here in two years' time. I have no qualms about getting an EV (particularly a Tesla, due to its long range) despite that though because electrons are far more common than gas stations!

-- Updated --


I was thinking of doing the same thing!

What- moving into Jeffs house and living there?

 

[int32_t]

What- moving into Jeffs house and living there?

No, more along the lines of buying a house for my 3 and borrowing a bit of space for a bed for myself. Since we're both future Tesla owners, though, I'm sure Jeff would give me a reasonable rate on rent. But then I'd have to move to Indianapolis ...

 

[dhanson865]

One more tidbit to add to that: charging at 240V is only about 87% efficient, with 120V being even less efficient than that (can't recall the 120V numbers for the S... I recall it being around 75% for the Leaf at 120V).

Leaf charger efficiency is:
Steady State Vehicle Charging Fact Sheet: 2015 Nissan Leaf - My Nissan Leaf Forum
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/SteadyStateLoadCharacterization2012Leaf.pdf
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/SteadyStateLoadCharacterization2015Leaf.pdf

240V Full charge rate for the 3.6KW charger was around 88.x% (maybe 88.3 or so). Less efficient at full amps

Max efficiency for the 3.6KW charger was around 89.x% (maybe 89.5 or so). On 240V But around 12a not 16a.
Max efficiency for the 6.6KW charger was around 90.x% (maybe 90.5 or so). 240V, More amps is better on this one.

Max efficiency for the 120V with 3.6KW charger was around 86.x% (closer to 86.25 or so)
Max efficiency for the 120V with 6.6KW charger was around 78% (closer to 77.9% or so)

but does not account for vampire drains of anything running on the 12v bus during charging, the car phoning home to Nissan, etc.

 

[int32_t]

Steady State Vehicle Charging Fact Sheet: 2015 Nissan Leaf - My Nissan Leaf Forum
...
Max efficiency for the 120V with 3.6KW charger was around 86.x% (closer to 86.25 or so)
Max efficiency for the 120V with 6.6KW charger was around 78% (closer to 77.9% or so)

Bizarre. They don't have data on the Model S, which has likely outsold all those vehicles combined.
Charging System Testing - Vehicle Charging System Testing | Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity

 

[strykeroz]

This is precisely what I was thinking... Anyone in the queue has made up their mind this vehicle suits their situation, or at least their prediction of what that will be in 2 years from now. I can't imagine any will be blindsided by the revelation the thing needs a source of electrons.

Turns out there were some. I stand corrected, and educated.

 

[silentsnow31802]

I can charge at work (where I spend most of my time anyways) and I plan on getting a dryer buddy or similar to charge from my NEMA 10-30 when at home.

I rent my house and installing a separate plug would be more work than its worth. Plus that way I do not have to bother my land lady about it.

 

[littlecloudy]

Turns out there were some. I stand corrected, and educated.

No, we get it, we're not stupid. Tesla runs on electricity. We just didn't think through to the fact that it needs to be charged at home and if you don't OWN A HOUSE then this becomes a major obstacle.

 

[int32_t]

Turns out there were some. I stand corrected, and educated.

You know, if you hadn't said you didn't think there were any, I probably would have just sat back and read the thread.

 

[DSBS4]

No, we get it, we're not stupid. Tesla runs on electricity. We just didn't think through to the fact that it needs to be charged at home and if you don't OWN A HOUSE then this becomes a major obstacle.

I think it's great that you're excited by Teslas and EVs. Perhaps you're fortunate that other posters have opened your eyes a little bit before you took delivery.

It's never easy to be part of wholesale change. Early adopters sacrificed convenience and money. Model 3 owner's may still need to sacrifice convenience to be part of the EV revolution, but at least the money part is coming down. Superchargers are popping up everywhere as are L2 chargers. Perhaps there's a L2 charger near you home or work.

EVs can work out for 95% of the population. If you want to make it work for you, I'm sure you'll manage. It may not be convenient, but it's possible.

 

[littlecloudy]

David R. Keith, an assistant professor at MIT Sloan School of Management, says this is just one reminder that electric vehicles are not just cars with a different kind of drivetrain. They challenge the conventions that underpin how we live our lives and build our cities. Those conventions can’t change very fast, he says, because electric vehicles and their infrastructure needs remain highly exotic to most people. That could hinder the uptake of electric cars even if they’re reasonably priced.

“There’s an effect that if you don’t have the infrastructure, people don’t buy the car; and if you don’t buy the cars, you don’t have the infrastructure,” says Keith. America currently has nearly 100,000 public charging points, and will need a whole lot more if Tesla’s Model 3 is to really take off.

Tesla’s low-cost Model 3 sedan could make overcrowded public charging points even more crowded

 

[EaglesPDX]

Tesla’s low-cost Model 3 sedan could make overcrowded public charging points even more crowded. David R. Keith, an assistant professor at MIT Sloan School of Management, says this is just one reminder that electric vehicles are not just cars with a different kind of drivetrain. They challenge the conventions that underpin how we live our lives and build our cities. Those conventions can’t change very fast, he says, because electric vehicles and their infrastructure needs remain highly exotic to most people. That could hinder the uptake of electric cars even if they’re reasonably priced. “There’s an effect that if you don’t have the infrastructure, people don’t buy the car; and if you don’t buy the cars, you don’t have the infrastructure,” says Keith. America currently has nearly 100,000 public charging points, and will need a whole lot more if Tesla’s Model 3 is to really take off.

Keith's assumptions are wrong on several major ponts.

The infrastructure is already in place for EV's. It's home charging. Keith makes all his assumptions based on everyone using and needing public charging stations like they need gas stations. They don't. EV's eliminate the gas station infrastructure. The only need EV owners have of public charging stations is when they travel over 100 miles from home. So there likely be no overcrowding of public stations. If there is, more will be built as demand for them grows. But most EV owners charge at home for all but infrequent long trips.

Because of the home charging basis for EV's, Keith's other statement that T3 can't "take off" is also false. As for T3's taking off, that already happened so Keith's prediction based on his faulty assumptions has already been proven wrong.

 

[22522]

No, we get it, we're not stupid. Tesla runs on electricity. We just didn't think through to the fact that it needs to be charged at home and if you don't OWN A HOUSE then this becomes a major obstacle.

The more I think about this, the more I think this problem is pretty straight foward. Not sure it makes it onto Tesla's priority list.

 

[SageBrush]

No, we get it, we're not stupid. Tesla runs on electricity. We just didn't think through to the fact that it needs to be charged at home and if you don't OWN A HOUSE then this becomes a major obstacle.

Who is 'we' ?

I live in a rental home and do not anticipate any problem. Not so sure about condo and Apt owners but they would have presumably given this a little thought before reserving the car.

 

[22522]

Who is 'we' ?

I live in a rental home and do not anticipate any problem. Not so sure about condo and Apt owners but they would have presumably given this a little thought before reserving the car.

When you look at the car your brain turns off.

I would expect the Model 3 charger efficiency to be 94% as shown for the BMW i3.

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/SteadyStateLoadCharacterization2014BMWi3.pdf

 

[SageBrush]

When you look at the car your brain turns off.

I would expect the Model 3 charger efficiency to be 94% as shown for the BMW i3.

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/SteadyStateLoadCharacterization2014BMWi3.pdf

Interesting -- thanks!

Why does efficiency increase at higher currents ?

 

[Yggdrasill]

The charger is designed for peak efficiency at specific load. This load will be 220-250V and probably 30-40A (for the previous generation of charger). Dialing down the amps will lower efficiency, and so will going from 220-250V to 110-120V.

It wouldn't surprise me if the efficiency at the really low end is only 75-80%. Especially because charging in itself consumes some energy, you have cooling fans, electronics, etc that consume some of the added energy. The more energy you add, the smaller these losses are relative to the energy added.

 

[22522]

Interesting -- thanks!

Why does efficiency increase at higher currents ?

Yggdrasil explained it well. Parasitics (fans, control circuits) are a smaller fraction of the total energy at higher power levels (currents).

It helps to think of efficiency as output power divided by input power, where input power is: output power + resistive losses (that go as current squared) + diode losses (that go as current) + relatively constant ( or independent of current losses ) losses like control circuits, fans, and likely core losses in the transformer that happen as you tell all the electrons in the transformer ferrite to rearrange themselves 150,000 times a second.

Your question kind of says to do the math on lower loss ferrite again. People don't like to pay for it because of cost metrics, but from a cost to society perspective, it might make sense to use the lowest loss material available. Thanks for a bit of attention redirect.