I almost cancelled my order when I test drove two Model S cars without SAS. The highway where I was test driving is terrible but every other car handles it fine. Not the Model S. The ride was beyond bad -- it would not be acceptable on any car at any price. I was in complete shock at how bad the ride with coil suspension was and ready to pull the plug on my order. My wife was looking at me with eyes wide and saying "you have got to be kidding me!" The Tesla guy suggested we try the SAS. It was a night and day difference. The SAS completely transformed the car. Needless to say, I have added SAS to my order.
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10 Knee jerk thoughts after pickup
- Thread starter Yinn
- Start date
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
People often forget the wheels and tires when comparing SAS and coil cars. There's 3 variables there - you can't attribute the differences to 1 unless you hold the other 2 constant. SAS + 21's will drive differently than coils + 19's. You can't blame the suspension (or tires) unless the other factors are constant.
Thanks for sharing ... please let know your thoughts after 30 days
I missed the 30 days, but coming up on 60...so I'll update it here. This is with 4,000 miles on the car now.
I'll call it...S60D after 60 Ds.
1. The all glass roof is still amazing. We had the opportunity to drive a loaner with a body colored roof, and it felt claustrophobic in comparison. Compared to the Model X: The front passengers get a better view in the X. The rear passengers get a better view in the S. Only tinge of regret is that we are not able to use a roof rack. Despite that, I would check this box off every single time.
2. Two times in 4,000 miles and 60 days, I have regretted not getting the air suspension. That is very infrequent. But if I had to do it again, I'd get the air suspension anyway.
3. Fit and finish is worse than we thought initially. We've had it in for service several times already for various issues. Nothing major, all annoyances (alignment of trim pieces, plastic pieces that weren't fully snapped, liners that weren't clipped, etc) I do commend their service team though, and a loaner car makes it easy.
4. While the LED lights on the refreshed cars look amazing, the light performance and distribution seems better on an older HID car.
5. Range anxiety...what's that? HPWC is not necessary. An extra UMC cable is not necessary. Whatever you get, have an extra backup outlet installed. We had an issue that prevented access to our charger for a week. We ended up using a 120V temporarily, which simply was not enough, leaving us with less than 50mi/day. The use of PlugShare helped us juice up along the way, and 200 mi of range now seems like a ton! No regrets going with a 60 instead of a 75.
6. Subzero: Gimmick? This was the one package we absolutely wanted. With the mobile app and pre-heating, we are finding we don't use it much. But when we do, boy is it appreciated. For $1000, we'd order it again. If it ever goes up to $2,500, we would most likely pass.
7. Visibility: Good thing it has all those sensors. It's a big car, and blind spots are plenty. The rear is difficult to see out of, more difficult than a 7 seater Model X with a fixed rear spoiler in the way. I've never really had to turn to check my blind spots before, but there just isn't any mirror combination that's allowed me to have a confident view.
8. Seats are very comfortable in the front (next gen seats) but the Premium seats from the Model X (now available on the S) are much better. It's a better balance of comfort while still bolstering. The rears are pretty bad for a tall adult.
9. Snow performance. A champ in the snow. We have yet to have any issues getting traction and getting going. Once moving stability is good. Not the best we've had, but by no means a bad performer. It's confident and stable.
10. Still don't miss the PUP. We had a loaner car with it, and the newer AP2 cars have an interior quality that's equal to an older non-AP car with the PUP. As for the power liftgate, the one on the Model X seems to work well. The one on the older non-AP S was frustrating, I'm not sure why they're different. We would skip this on a reorder as well.
After 60 Days if I were to reorder:
Model S 60D w/ Standard wheels
+ Midnight Silver
+ Black Premium Leather Seats
+ SAS
+ Subzero
+ RFS
+ All Glass Roof
and I would probably look for an inventory car instead of a custom order.
Thank you Yinn - I understand and truly appreciate your post. As someone whose Leaf lease expires in three months, I am ever closer to ordering and have been curious about several points which you have made clear to me.
Happy I can help!
If you're going to do a custom order, you'll want to place it soon. When you order, you have the option to select your delivery month. Middle of the 2nd month is typically the cutoff to get delivery within the same quarter, so you won't be in a rush this month; but it may be an issue in May as you might not get your car until June - or potentially even later once they ramp up Model 3 deliveries.
But definitely take a browse through inventory. We had a need for rear facing seats, which doesn't typically sit in inventory. But we found a number of inventory cars that were discounted enough to have essentially free PUP (or EAP) And of course, use a referral code for $1000 off!! Mine, or someone elses; $1000 is $1000.
Feel free to PM me if you have a specific question.
Right. I have found the rear window to be better than people led me to expect, albeit not as generous in size as my previous cars, trucks, and van. It's adequate for most purposes, I think. I am a tad over 6 feet tall, so that may make it easier for me. Plus I have a 2015 car with the cheap seats, not the newer ones that (I understand) have larger headrests.
Where the rear window fails is in rain and snow. Because it is nearly horizontal and has no wiper, visibility definitely suffers in precip. The heater is marginal, unfortunately.
But all in all, it is quite tolerable, i think.
Of both my updates, I realized I missed something. 3 months in, my wife took a girls weekend and did not take the Tesla. I asked her how the getaway was and her reply was:
"I had to get gas, I forgot what that was like. I love that I don't have to do that anymore"
For those w/o an EV, we've gotten accustomed to the regular stops to fill up. We think of it as convenience since there are so many stations, but when you free yourself from it; you realize what a pain it actually is. We definitely do not miss the 15 minute detours to fill up. Especially out when it's cold. For me, I was notorious for procrastinating. 50 miles left in the tank, I'd go home and tell myself I'd grab gas in the morning. Only to forget in the morning, or causing myself to be late. I also push it, I have been stranded and out of range with an ICE..have not with an EV yet.
"I had to get gas, I forgot what that was like. I love that I don't have to do that anymore"
For those w/o an EV, we've gotten accustomed to the regular stops to fill up. We think of it as convenience since there are so many stations, but when you free yourself from it; you realize what a pain it actually is. We definitely do not miss the 15 minute detours to fill up. Especially out when it's cold. For me, I was notorious for procrastinating. 50 miles left in the tank, I'd go home and tell myself I'd grab gas in the morning. Only to forget in the morning, or causing myself to be late. I also push it, I have been stranded and out of range with an ICE..have not with an EV yet.
Plus, after I had driven an EV for a while, and went to get gas for an ICE car, I was much more aware of the smell of the (poisonous) gasoline vapors, the messy nozzles and hoses, the risks of the credit card readers, and the dripped petroleum products all over the ground (and now on my shoe soles). And look overhead -- there is a reason for those fire extinguishing nozzles up there! Now I go to gas stations only for air for my tires or something from the convenience store!
Model S M.D.
Ludicrous Radiologist
Agree with @TexasEV. I had the pano roof through a hot Houston summer with no issues at all. I also have heat rejection tint on the sides, rear and front windshield. Sun shade for the roof is unnecessary.
@Yinn I agree with you regarding the SAS. I had coils with 19s on my previous Tesla, and currently have SAS with 21s. The ride is so much smoother with the SAS (even with 21s).
Would order SAS again in a heartbeat, along with the all glass roof.
3 Months later....
When shopping for these cars, it can often be easy to go overboard. I found myself considering doing the same when I was shopping, but here's some food for thought. We took what we saved by going with a "base" Model S, and purchased a "base" Model X. Combined, the two cars cost less than a fully loaded Model S P100D. The two were also configured very differently and were able to give me some comparisons and additional insights to my original post.
1. The all glass roof is still worth every penny. When compared to the large windshield of the X, we prefer the all glass roof setup of the S. The tint on the all glass roof is darker than the top of the X windshield. If you have a tan interior, this may not be as big of a deal. If you have a black interior, it helps brighten up the inside. It's also a major wow factor for the S and gets as many "wow" as the falcon doors get on the X. There have been several occasions though where we wish we could have had a roof rack on the car though. We would definitely order this option again.
2. We have SAS on the X. While it's a different car, there's a noticeable difference in dampening and ride quality depending on which setting is used. There is also a noticeable handling effect. In turns, the X will definitely feel more hunkered down in a low and very low setting versus a standard setting. With that said, SAS has flaws. The geo location based changes need more fine tuning. The automatic lowering/raising can be a slight pain. On occasion I found the car raising my suspension mid turn because I had dropped below the set speed. The X also has a much larger range of motion than the S, so I wonder if the effects would be less pronounced in the S. If we were to be ordering again, I would have to consider my budget to decide on this. At the time of this writing, it's $2500 for SAS and I feel I would most likely click the box to order.
3. Fit and finish is pretty bad on all of these cars. Sure, quality has improved. Yes, it's getting better. The service centers will do their best to make it right. It's still a young car company though. Both cars have large panel gaps. Our S has had a door latch adjusted numerous times, it still doesn't close quite right. Both cars have trim issues. Nothing permanent, but drooping in several places, needed an extra push to snap into place at others. The product isn't bad, it was rushed. Car to car, anything can be inconsistent. Even the way our MX plugs in and snaps/clicks vs our MS which requires a slight jiggle to start. That should be pretty standard.
4. PUP. Oh PUP, how overpriced you are.
- Alcantra trim, I'm personally not a fan. This is just a personal taste thing, no pros or cons from me.
- Quick phone dock. The dock itself isn't anything special, but it does help hold my phone in place on quick acceleration, that in itself is nice. But you can also add it for $35 on a non-PUP.
- The extra lighting. On newer cars, you will have most of the lighting already. The extra lights add a nice touch, but are quickly forgotten. The only big piece is the rear trunk lights. If you're looking for a cheap option, abstract ocean does an admirable job at using existing factory harnesses to get you more lighting.
- Dear power lift gate. I hate you. I hated you before we knew Tesla and we didn't order you on the S. On the X, you forced yourself upon me. At first, I thought I was growing to like you. Then I realized, I still hate you. In wide open spaces, this works exactly as intended. Inside the garage, it tests my patience. While I have a low overhead garage, we found this to be an issue during delivery as well as our DS explained the car was picking up the 20+? 30+ foot ceilings and preventing it from opening all the way. The memory programming gets overridden by the object sensors. So while you may program it to open at 80% height, it can detect an object at 30% and decide to close there. Forcing you to manually open it anyway. Good and bad are resistance sensors when closing. Good for safety, bad for when it's a bag of clothes that barely stick out. Which means manually closing it anyway. At the heart of it, nothing is wrong. It just seems like a complication of something easily done manually and requires manual interaction most of the time anyway (in my case) If I could rip it out and throw it away, I would.
- HEPA filter. It's nice to have, my lungs cannot detect a quality difference. It's also able to be added to non-PUP cars.
If you value everything in here, then it's worth it. For me and my preference, I would never check this upon reorder.
5. Range. Our X 75D gets 237. We only charge it to 70% most of the time leaving us with ~166mi/range. Our S 60D gets 218mi, we only charge it to 80% leaving us with 174mi/range. During the week, this is more than enough, even with a couple of surprise stops. I also have a VERY heavy foot. Our average consumption is about 25% above the rated. For those coming from an ICE, remember. Your current car rarely starts up with a full tank of gas. Your electric car should really start with a full (based on what you set) charge every morning.
For context, we commute about 35mi/each way on the highway. With detours, afterschool activites, etc. We drive about 100-120/mi per day - that's over 30,000 mi/year not including weekends. The average person drives 12,000 mi/year. I think the 60D is the best deal available right now. On the S, the performance is enough. Obviously you can get faster, but the 60D is no slouch. If you don't need the full charge on a daily basis, I'd recommend getting the 60. If you find you need range, I'd recommend jumping to a 100D, to P or not to P is your preference. If I had to do it again, I'd get the 60. If they made the X available in a 60, I would've gotten the 60.
6. Subzero. We don't have it on the Model X, while we liked it on the S, I thought I might not need it on the X. You still get seat warmers and you will miss the heated steering wheel, but it won't annoy you with preheating as per my previous update...that was a mistake. If you live in an area that even might snow. Get it. If you live in an area that doesn't snow...this is optional. But if it snows, those heated nozzel and wipers definitely help. We would check this box every single time for $1000. This is the best deal in terms of options in my opinion.
7. Ultra High Fidelity Sound. Neither of my cars have this. So if I had to order it again, obviously I wouldn't order it again. The more I live with it, the more I'm ok with it. Tweaking the equalizer settings help tremendously. I'm very happy with the way standard system performs. I do admit it can be better, but it's not as horrible as some may make it seem; at least not after you tweak it. In default setting, it is truly horrendous. For $2500, UHFS vs SAS, I would prefer the SAS.
8. AP1 vs AP2 hardware & software. We do not have EAP on our S. We have AP1 on our X. Despite this, we are able to tell the hardware is significantly better in AP2. The ultrasonic sensors may seem the same, but there is a noticeable range increase on AP2 hardware. Overall the car picks up things sooner. This was something I didn't think we'd want or use. I found this was a false assumption, but only in specific situations.
We don't use autopilot on our weekends. We really don't use it on highway driving. It's most helpful in a heavy traffic situation and definitely helps with my blood pressure and stress levels. It's also nice to have when mild distractions occur - ie, taking off your jacket mid drive, checking a text, turning around to threaten your kid about ending the trip. Yes, we should be pulling over to do all of these things. But theoretically if you didn't, this would at least be a safer option than letting your car go straight ahead while you do it anyway.
With that said, AP1 does an admirable job. If you're on a crunch and considering an inventory or CPO car. I would not be hesitant about buying the older technology to save some money. As for would I check the box again? For my drive, I sit in traffic; so yes. For my wife's drive, she does not, so no.
9. Our black next gen seats are wearing much better than our black premium leather seats. Our black premium leather seats are much more comfortable, a good compromise between bolstering and comfort. However, the sides are stretched, wrinkled, and marked. Our next gens have 5x the mileage and look as good as new.
10. We bought an inventory car with the Model X. We wish we would have done the same with the S. It was a much quicker and smoother buying process without the anxiety associated with the build time. It was also nice being able to see and drive the car we were about to purchase given the fit and finish problems and inconsistencies going from car to car. This is amplified if you can get a discount as well. You do lose some of that Christmas morning feeling though during pickup.
After 60 Days if I were to reorder: I wouldn't.
I'd look for the closest matching inventory car
Model S 60D w/ Standard wheels
+ Midnight Silver : Flexible
+ Black Premium Leather Seats: Preferred
+ AP (EAP or AP1) w/o FSD: Prefered
+ SAS: Preferred
+ Subzero: Must Have
+ RFS: Must Have
+ All Glass Roof: Preferred, Pano 2nd.
When shopping for these cars, it can often be easy to go overboard. I found myself considering doing the same when I was shopping, but here's some food for thought. We took what we saved by going with a "base" Model S, and purchased a "base" Model X. Combined, the two cars cost less than a fully loaded Model S P100D. The two were also configured very differently and were able to give me some comparisons and additional insights to my original post.
1. The all glass roof is still worth every penny. When compared to the large windshield of the X, we prefer the all glass roof setup of the S. The tint on the all glass roof is darker than the top of the X windshield. If you have a tan interior, this may not be as big of a deal. If you have a black interior, it helps brighten up the inside. It's also a major wow factor for the S and gets as many "wow" as the falcon doors get on the X. There have been several occasions though where we wish we could have had a roof rack on the car though. We would definitely order this option again.
2. We have SAS on the X. While it's a different car, there's a noticeable difference in dampening and ride quality depending on which setting is used. There is also a noticeable handling effect. In turns, the X will definitely feel more hunkered down in a low and very low setting versus a standard setting. With that said, SAS has flaws. The geo location based changes need more fine tuning. The automatic lowering/raising can be a slight pain. On occasion I found the car raising my suspension mid turn because I had dropped below the set speed. The X also has a much larger range of motion than the S, so I wonder if the effects would be less pronounced in the S. If we were to be ordering again, I would have to consider my budget to decide on this. At the time of this writing, it's $2500 for SAS and I feel I would most likely click the box to order.
3. Fit and finish is pretty bad on all of these cars. Sure, quality has improved. Yes, it's getting better. The service centers will do their best to make it right. It's still a young car company though. Both cars have large panel gaps. Our S has had a door latch adjusted numerous times, it still doesn't close quite right. Both cars have trim issues. Nothing permanent, but drooping in several places, needed an extra push to snap into place at others. The product isn't bad, it was rushed. Car to car, anything can be inconsistent. Even the way our MX plugs in and snaps/clicks vs our MS which requires a slight jiggle to start. That should be pretty standard.
4. PUP. Oh PUP, how overpriced you are.
- Alcantra trim, I'm personally not a fan. This is just a personal taste thing, no pros or cons from me.
- Quick phone dock. The dock itself isn't anything special, but it does help hold my phone in place on quick acceleration, that in itself is nice. But you can also add it for $35 on a non-PUP.
- The extra lighting. On newer cars, you will have most of the lighting already. The extra lights add a nice touch, but are quickly forgotten. The only big piece is the rear trunk lights. If you're looking for a cheap option, abstract ocean does an admirable job at using existing factory harnesses to get you more lighting.
- Dear power lift gate. I hate you. I hated you before we knew Tesla and we didn't order you on the S. On the X, you forced yourself upon me. At first, I thought I was growing to like you. Then I realized, I still hate you. In wide open spaces, this works exactly as intended. Inside the garage, it tests my patience. While I have a low overhead garage, we found this to be an issue during delivery as well as our DS explained the car was picking up the 20+? 30+ foot ceilings and preventing it from opening all the way. The memory programming gets overridden by the object sensors. So while you may program it to open at 80% height, it can detect an object at 30% and decide to close there. Forcing you to manually open it anyway. Good and bad are resistance sensors when closing. Good for safety, bad for when it's a bag of clothes that barely stick out. Which means manually closing it anyway. At the heart of it, nothing is wrong. It just seems like a complication of something easily done manually and requires manual interaction most of the time anyway (in my case) If I could rip it out and throw it away, I would.
- HEPA filter. It's nice to have, my lungs cannot detect a quality difference. It's also able to be added to non-PUP cars.
If you value everything in here, then it's worth it. For me and my preference, I would never check this upon reorder.
5. Range. Our X 75D gets 237. We only charge it to 70% most of the time leaving us with ~166mi/range. Our S 60D gets 218mi, we only charge it to 80% leaving us with 174mi/range. During the week, this is more than enough, even with a couple of surprise stops. I also have a VERY heavy foot. Our average consumption is about 25% above the rated. For those coming from an ICE, remember. Your current car rarely starts up with a full tank of gas. Your electric car should really start with a full (based on what you set) charge every morning.
For context, we commute about 35mi/each way on the highway. With detours, afterschool activites, etc. We drive about 100-120/mi per day - that's over 30,000 mi/year not including weekends. The average person drives 12,000 mi/year. I think the 60D is the best deal available right now. On the S, the performance is enough. Obviously you can get faster, but the 60D is no slouch. If you don't need the full charge on a daily basis, I'd recommend getting the 60. If you find you need range, I'd recommend jumping to a 100D, to P or not to P is your preference. If I had to do it again, I'd get the 60. If they made the X available in a 60, I would've gotten the 60.
6. Subzero. We don't have it on the Model X, while we liked it on the S, I thought I might not need it on the X. You still get seat warmers and you will miss the heated steering wheel, but it won't annoy you with preheating as per my previous update...that was a mistake. If you live in an area that even might snow. Get it. If you live in an area that doesn't snow...this is optional. But if it snows, those heated nozzel and wipers definitely help. We would check this box every single time for $1000. This is the best deal in terms of options in my opinion.
7. Ultra High Fidelity Sound. Neither of my cars have this. So if I had to order it again, obviously I wouldn't order it again. The more I live with it, the more I'm ok with it. Tweaking the equalizer settings help tremendously. I'm very happy with the way standard system performs. I do admit it can be better, but it's not as horrible as some may make it seem; at least not after you tweak it. In default setting, it is truly horrendous. For $2500, UHFS vs SAS, I would prefer the SAS.
8. AP1 vs AP2 hardware & software. We do not have EAP on our S. We have AP1 on our X. Despite this, we are able to tell the hardware is significantly better in AP2. The ultrasonic sensors may seem the same, but there is a noticeable range increase on AP2 hardware. Overall the car picks up things sooner. This was something I didn't think we'd want or use. I found this was a false assumption, but only in specific situations.
We don't use autopilot on our weekends. We really don't use it on highway driving. It's most helpful in a heavy traffic situation and definitely helps with my blood pressure and stress levels. It's also nice to have when mild distractions occur - ie, taking off your jacket mid drive, checking a text, turning around to threaten your kid about ending the trip. Yes, we should be pulling over to do all of these things. But theoretically if you didn't, this would at least be a safer option than letting your car go straight ahead while you do it anyway.
With that said, AP1 does an admirable job. If you're on a crunch and considering an inventory or CPO car. I would not be hesitant about buying the older technology to save some money. As for would I check the box again? For my drive, I sit in traffic; so yes. For my wife's drive, she does not, so no.
9. Our black next gen seats are wearing much better than our black premium leather seats. Our black premium leather seats are much more comfortable, a good compromise between bolstering and comfort. However, the sides are stretched, wrinkled, and marked. Our next gens have 5x the mileage and look as good as new.
10. We bought an inventory car with the Model X. We wish we would have done the same with the S. It was a much quicker and smoother buying process without the anxiety associated with the build time. It was also nice being able to see and drive the car we were about to purchase given the fit and finish problems and inconsistencies going from car to car. This is amplified if you can get a discount as well. You do lose some of that Christmas morning feeling though during pickup.
After 60 Days if I were to reorder: I wouldn't.
I'd look for the closest matching inventory car
Model S 60D w/ Standard wheels
+ Midnight Silver : Flexible
+ Black Premium Leather Seats: Preferred
+ AP (EAP or AP1) w/o FSD: Prefered
+ SAS: Preferred
+ Subzero: Must Have
+ RFS: Must Have
+ All Glass Roof: Preferred, Pano 2nd.
avesraggiana
Member
Thank you for continuing to post updates on your ownership experience. I’m more excited than ever at the prospect of receiving my bespoke Model S75D at the end of the month, or early April.
It does disappoint me and concern me, but only a little, that Tesla is still churning out cars that are inconsistent at best in their build quality. Based on your paragraph 3, I shall have to remember to pay particular attention build details like panel gaps, trim piece alignment, etc when I take delivery of my car. Shame to have to be concerned about this sort of thing when you can assume that a Honda, or even a Kia, will have fit and finish tolerances that are so much tighter. And these cars are a third of the cost of what we’ve paid for these Teslas.
Thanks again for your write ups.
It does disappoint me and concern me, but only a little, that Tesla is still churning out cars that are inconsistent at best in their build quality. Based on your paragraph 3, I shall have to remember to pay particular attention build details like panel gaps, trim piece alignment, etc when I take delivery of my car. Shame to have to be concerned about this sort of thing when you can assume that a Honda, or even a Kia, will have fit and finish tolerances that are so much tighter. And these cars are a third of the cost of what we’ve paid for these Teslas.
Thanks again for your write ups.
This exactly is what makes it disappointing. Majority of the things could probably be caught by expanding QA/QC by 30 minutes.
While I did do a good amount of checking during delivery, I would probably recommend the opposite and tell you to just enjoy the experience. Our first, we combed through the car and had a tech come out to fix some of the trim - we still found other things. The second, we basically went as quick as possible and essentially got in and left.
Anything they do pre-delivery will be rushed anyway. You're almost better off living with it for a week or two, and discover the full spectrum (and make a list) of everything that bothers you. Hopefully nothing does - our X has had less trips than our S. Then make an appointment, get a loaner, and drop it off for them to address all at once. When it goes in to service, they do an additional inspection. So this basically serves as your additional QA/QC as they can (and did for us) catch issues we didn't even notice.
avesraggiana
Member
Your remarks just resulted in a minor epiphany! I like your take on the delivery experience. I’m going to take your recommendation and do the latter, get in and leave. I know myself too well. I’ll be too keyed up, too excited and too impatient to bother with imperfections anyway. Better to be at home and away from all the delivery excitement so as to take a more thorough and sober look at things that may need correcting.
Thank you so much.
@ OP thanks for your continued updates!
I'll be receiving my MS 60d mid april. Anyone have a link to the best post regarding QC/things to check on delivery day? Thank you.
I'll be receiving my MS 60d mid april. Anyone have a link to the best post regarding QC/things to check on delivery day? Thank you.
avesraggiana
Member
I recall seeing the link to that checklist too, but I’ll be darned if I can find it again. Since that’s the case, I’m going to go with what Yinn, the OP advised us - relax about the whole thing, get away from the hubbub and excitement of taking delivery, and start making a list of problems you see after you get home. I know myself too well, I’m going to be too excited at getting my new car to really pay close attention to anything wrong anyway.
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