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Discussion in 'Model S' started by Jjmboni, May 22, 2019.
The Tesla (and I think it may be all cars) are designed that if the brake and the accelerator pedals are both pressed, the brake takes precedence. So if she really had one foot on the brake and the other foot on the accelerator, the car would have stopped moving forward.
The car will only shift into Park if your butt lifts off the seat at a slow rate of travel. Above a predetermined speed (I can’t remember what the speed is), the car will NOT shift into Park if your bottom is lifted off the seat. It has nothing to do with whether you are depressing the accelerator. Try it, drive to say 30mph and lift your bottom off the seat while your foot is NOT depressing the accelerator pedal. The car will stay in Drive.
In a non-related manner, if you are driving and accidentally press the Park button on the steering wheel stark, the car will not shift into Park. To shift into Park while the car is in motion you have to depress the Park button and hold it depressed.
Seems there was a rather long thread recently discussing what the difference was between PARK and holding the park button in to set emergency brake. And if there any difference between the two.
Not sure if anyone figured it out conclusively. Possibly more holding force with the emergency brake version?
But regardless it allows a way to put the emergency brake on if you were in a runaway car I guess with failed brakes.
Maybe someone has some knowledge on how this works?
I was creeping up the hill at 1 or 2 mph, with accelerator input. Car stayed in drive.
LOL... The car didn't accelerate on it's own, you pressed the wrong peddle. It happens, own it. It's literally impossible for a Tesla to accelerate on it's own due to how the drive by wire is setup. @wk057 has explained this many times...
Whether or not this guy’s story about the same thing happening is true or not, it is false to think the car can’t accelerate on its own without a pedal press by a human.
The adaptive cruise control accelerates the car from a stop position without a pedal press. A malfunctioning cruise control sensor could in theory cause auto acceleration could it not?
OP never ever again ever buy a damaged or salvaged car, it can cost you your life, literally. Friend got a 2017 salvage BMW3 looked like out of the showroom, at oil change mechanic called him in and showed barn-grade welding repair job to the front frame, you can imagine this guy's survival chances during a frontal collision.
No, a malfunctioning sensor couldn't. You need a string of several interrelated failures to get there, most of which are bizarre failure modes.
First, you'd need the neural net to falsely detect a car in front of you, to permit TACC to engage below 18 mph.
Next you need a momentary switch malfunction to cause the car to believe you engaged TACC.
Then you need the phantom car to appear to accelerate away on radar.
If there's anything about the situation that makes the car unsure, like ultrasonic indications near the car during this, it'll go into hold mode instead of accelerating, and wait for someone to press the accelerator before moving...
A few weeks ago I floored my 2015 Model S to merge into traffic and to my surprise it just kept accelerating after I let my foot up off the accelerator. I smashed the brakes and it immediately cut the power and slowed but as soon as I let off the brakes it launched forward again. Somehow I knew it had to be the floor mat that I had trouble with recently so I shuffled my foot around and was able to unstick the floor mat from the accelerator pedal. If it had been anyone else driving the car I'm sure they would have launched forward into the back of the other cars on the highway and blamed it on the car accelerating on it's own. Possible the same thing happened in this case and recollection of events can be distorted. Your wife may have mashed on the brakes but letting off even for a fraction of a second would have launched it forward again. Even getting out of the car probably would keep it trying to move forward if the accelerator was stuck to the floor like mine was.
What if there is latency or failure to connect to the neural net. In the 3 steps you outline above, that one point of failure knocks out step 1 and 3.
If latency to the neural network happens for a few seconds every 1000 hours lets say, then all you need is a car with a malfunctioning TACC sensor to hit all 3 points of failure you outline.
You can have tragic failure with a factory build too. Logic dictates the best buying method is to never categorically remove an option. Instead, I posit that doing one's proverbial homework matters more than the provenance of the item. Weigh all the data critically and then make a reasoned decision.
As a passenger, I once witnessed the driver of a car I was riding in had her shoes off, shoes floating around near the pedals and operating the pedals with her bare feet because, as she claimed, it was more comfortable for her! Unbelievable!
Floor mats getting stuck is not even remotely the same as wrong pedal press or the supposed “acceleration when pushing the brake”.
I have had that problem with floor mats getting in the way of the pedal if I don’t put them in properly.
Being a “cop” doesn’t mean sh1t if they think they can get money from a settlement.
I also know that if you hit TACC accidentally if set, that may cause the acceleration.
Will just leave this here...
Sudden Unexpected Acceleration today
I really wish people would stop telling others that salvaged = dangerous. Salvaged only means the repair cost was too high ( there are a lot of variables and I wont get into it ). Think about what would happen if someone stole your car and removed all the glass, interior, bumpers and lights. Yup, it would be considered totalled/salvaged even though there was no damage done to the car structure itself. Replace all the missing parts and you have a perfectly safe vehicle with a salvaged title. If the welds were shotty then it was not repaired at a reputable shop and that's on the buyer for not doing there homework about the history and repairs done.
If the op car was repaired at a reputable shop then I would look into that shop to see what all was done to it and if in fact they replaced any sensors or other pertinent items that could be deemed at fault. But but but, it's on the purchaser to check the car out if it has a salvaged title so there will be no recourse to the person or shop that did the repairs.
He died. Along with his family. Please show some respect to these people. Not a money grab.
Huh? If there's no connection to the neural net (not sure what that's supposed to mean - the NN is on a processor on your car, not some sort of external network,) it won't cause the car to decide the NN saw a car that isn't there, and it certainly won't cause the car to make TACC available at low speeds.
The problem is that the quality of salvaged cars is highly variable.
Some are just as good as other used cars.
Others may be actively dangerous to drive.
It can be hard to tell the difference between them for the casual buyer, so the safe bet is for folks who don't know enough to be sure which is which is just to avoid all of them.
FYI, investigating such matters is what I do. I have investigated more than 2 dozen Toyota SUA cases, as well as multiple various others, including two Tesla's. I know of at least two dozen specific different causes for SUA that has been proven, including software/firmware faults. And, these are exacerbated when the vehicle is not also equipped with a Brake Override Feature (Brake signal gets priority over Accelerator Pedal signal). And, for internal combustion engine vehicles, the idea you can stop the car with the brake is a myth. Yes, you can do it if you catch it immediately and only press the brake ONCE. When the throttle is wide open, you have a 100% vacuum leak to the atmosphere and power brake assist only works on the first try. After that, you dramatically lose brake force and once moving rapidly, it becomes increasing difficult to impossible to significantly reduce vehicle speed. There are numerous YouTube videos demonstrating this. Brake Override substantially fixes this.