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2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

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Lexus does look like it's on a trajectory to 0. Maybe BMW, Merc, and Audi will aggressively chase the market share; not so sure about Lexus.

Lexus will have the first new LS in ~years in2018.

Now they will have a base V6. Like every other luxury ICE brand.

The 2017 LS is really dated.

Lexus might actually proffer an LS hybrid that gives you better mileage and/or performance.
 
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People keep mentioning that the M3 range better meet or exceed the Bolt. They're forgetting the supercharger network- have you tried planning a trip on Chademo ?

That's why I bought a 60S (now a 75) - I'd say a 55 pack would be fine for the 3.
Until the base 60 kWh rumor came out, I was of the opinion that the base version would be 50 kWh. A long time ago Elon stated that they were shooting for 20% better efficiency than the model S. I believe this would put them right around the 215 mile range mark.
 
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Suddenly occurred to me and I wish to know others thoughts on this:

As Tesla deploys Powerpacks for grids, the grid becomes more resilient, leading to less black outs. Would this damp demand of Powerwall for those who need it to prevent black outs?

It has always been an open question in my mind... is tesla energy an industrial product for power companies or a consumer product? I will be curious to see how it plays out, but very long term, I think it will be a consumer product. Tony Seba predicts the cost of renewable energy will drop below the cost of transmission.
 
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Until the base 60 kWh rumor came out, I was of the opinion that the base version would be 50 kWh. A long time ago Elon stated that they were shooting for 20% better efficiency than the model S. I believe this would put them right around the 215 mile range mark.
We will know for sure in 21 days, but I believed the rumor after the 60kWh level was removed from the Model S.
 
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Suddenly occurred to me and I wish to know others thoughts on this:

As Tesla deploys Powerpacks for grids, the grid becomes more resilient, leading to less black outs. Would this damp demand of Powerwall for those who need it to prevent black outs?
Unless your grid is really unreliable, I'd say a power wall decision is more tied to the kWhr cost that you can defer with solar or wind or utility source. In my case of a $0.105 per kwhr it's a long payback.

Power packs and solar/ wind will be used to replaced natural gas peaking or locations that import diesel or in some cases to provide stability to the grid.
 
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@MitchJi what is your expectation for Model 3 ASP? I believe Elon had estimated the ASP at $42,000. And IIRC, you had predicted that Autopilot may be included as a standard option with the Model 3? I'm probably remembering what you said wrong...

Autopilot pricing is important as it affects two things: Autopilot (EAD or FSD) revenues likely have very high gross margins given that it's primarily software which can be copied across the fleet pretty easily. Because of this, any incremental Autopilot revenue will drop straight to the bottom line as net income (Tesla likely won't pay any corporate income taxes in 2018 due to its large Deferred Tax Assets).

And here's where it gets interesting: if Tesla can charge even $7k avg for EAD/FSD, my DCF predicts bottom line profitability by 2Q18 and enough net income in 3Q18 to make up for the net losses in 2H17 so that TSLA can be considered for addition to S&P500 shortly thereafter.

Autopilot pricing will make a significant difference to the bottom line in 2018, so I welcome any comments on this.
 
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Model3_0617_zpstv5dnbho.jpg
That helps. What I was thinking of was A4/S4, base 3-Series/M3 etc in order to consider base vs loaded Model 3. We really have modest insight about average Model 3 option uptake partly because we don't know what options will be partly because we know little about the demographics of reservation holders, much less the broader Model 3 market. The more we know about similar sized vehicles option uptake the less uninformed our guesses will be.
 
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It has always been an open question in my mind... is tesla energy an industrial product for power companies or a consumer product? I will be curious to see how it plays out, but very long term, I think it will be a consumer product. Tony Seba predicts the cost of renewable energy will drop below the cost of transmission.

My expecation for the distant future is it'll be both. There will be areas of the world where an individual household can reasonably build their own power system and be their own grid. Especially in a world where renewably energy is cheaper than the cost of transmission.

There are also plenty of areas in the world (like the Pacific NW where I live), where the renewable energy will need to be seasonably storable (not just for day or 2, or a week). One tangible example - the 10kw solar PV system I have on my roof routinely clears 60KWh produced during the summer months, and routinely falls below 5 KWh for a day of production during the depths of winter (sometimes <1KWh). Great for electric AC during the summer - bad for electric heat (whether heat pump or something else) during the winter.

And the shortfall is so high, I would really need seasonal storage to capture sunshine in the summer so I could spend it during the winter.


That being said, anywhere with particularly good solar and a particularly recalcitrant / expensive local utility, is likely to find signficiant grid defection. I think anywhere with local utilities that are trying hard to figure out how they can transform the grid will find that there is still a role for central energy production and transmission. It might start looking more like each household takes care of their routine / baseload electricity, and the utility is called on for extreme temps and power usage, or to trickle replace energy shortfall, or I don't know.

End result - I see both business models and uses for batteries for as far into the future as I'm alive (say 2060). Maybe in a couple of centuries, every building will be optimized for efficiency, every surface will collect energy from the sun, and we'll be so awash in solar energy that I won't need a transmission grid here in the PNW for my heating during a week or 3 of heavy clouds / no sun / cold weather in the winter.
 
Suddenly occurred to me and I wish to know others thoughts on this:

As Tesla deploys Powerpacks for grids, the grid becomes more resilient, leading to less black outs. Would this damp demand of Powerwall for those who need it to prevent black outs?

Slightly to your question: My first house had daily brown/black outs due to housing construction exceeding substation capacity. Now that I live in a more rural area, the only power outages are weather induced. If I had a Powerwall, it would be handy for those times, especially when I am not home to haul out the generator and get it running. Otherwise, the Powerwall would take up excess solar from my panels for use at night.
 
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Reactions: neroden
People keep mentioning that the M3 range better meet or exceed the Bolt. They're forgetting the supercharger network- have you tried planning a trip on Chademo ?

That's why I bought a 60S (now a 75) - I'd say a 55 pack would be fine for the 3.

I can see Musk making that case. I's not out of the realm of possibilities. But it would look bad from a marketing perspective. Specs matter to people. Why give GM any ammo? I suspect there's no way Musk wants to be beaten by a half-arsed compliance offering of less than 30k cars.
 
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Suddenly occurred to me and I wish to know others thoughts on this:

As Tesla deploys Powerpacks for grids, the grid becomes more resilient, leading to less black outs. Would this damp demand of Powerwall for those who need it to prevent black outs?

I don't think so. Powerwall 2 isn't being marketed, nor is it optimized, for blackout backup. It's intended to reduce your electric costs by soaking up your excess solar energy, or by storing cheap overnight grid energy to use during more expensive peak load hours during the day.
 
I will likely be dramatically reducing my posts in the future as I need to focus on a few other things in the coming weeks.

Just wanted to add onto today's set of good news :D:rolleyes:;)


I will likely be dramatically reducing my posts in the future as I need to focus on a few other things in the coming weeks.

Just wanted to add onto today's set of good news :D:rolleyes:;)

Best Of luck.
.Perfected the TE model?
.Too busy selling the condos ?

I have enjoyed many of your posts.
 
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